Rap music on CBS-FM??

[davideduardo]

"Rap music" is an oxymoron.....and mutually exclusive.

That would seem to mean that a scat in jazz or a soneo in salsa are not music, either.

I'd say that rap is just as deserving of being called music as Mahler' works are. It's all a matter of taste.

 

[landtuna]

"Rap music" is an oxymoron.....and mutually exclusive.

That would seem to mean that a scat in jazz or a soneo in salsa are not music, either.

I'd say that rap is just as deserving of being called music as Mahler' works are. It's all a matter of taste.

Here is a popular definition of music:

1. The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
2. The vocal or instrumental sound produced in this way.

I have never heard a rap performance that meets either of these definitions. "Beauty" and "rap" are particularly mutually exclusive.

I'm not familiar with jazz "skats" or salsa "soneos" but from your statement I presume both have nothing but a beat and spoken word. If that's true then I would say neither of them fit the definition of music either.

 

[Silkie]

"Bust a Move" by Young MC (1989) was played on CBS-FM, just before midnight (ET) today.

Granted it's old school rap, but...the demo timeline must be moving forward. 

Just don't lose the 60's and 70's.  I suppose the Sunday night countdowns will keep it safe for now.

Count on Dick Bartley to keep the faith...and the trust. Every once in awhile he goes into early 80s, but rather than get too far in he goes to 60s.  He has a few here and there in small markets who can't do their own thing, so they try to use his programs, but they will never achieve his trademark sound. 

 

[davideduardo]

Here is a popular definition of music:

1. The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
2. The vocal or instrumental sound produced in this way.

Rap, hip hop, scats in jazz and soneos in salsa all have beauty of form and certainly express emotion.

Harmony is something many other forms of music fully contain... thus my example of modern classical and certainly many pieces in jazz.

So I return to my statement that it's all music, separated only by taste and membership in certain cultural groups.

Anecdotally, I'd much rather hear Akon than Frank Sinatra...

 

[oldies76]

I'd say that rap is just as deserving of being called music as Mahler' works are. It's all a matter of taste.

The background beat of a rap "song", whether real instruments or computer generated is a form of music. Rapping by itself is "spoken or chanted rhyming lyrics" (source: Wikipedia)

or check this out:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/170053/is_rap_really_music.html?cat=33

I would lean to rap being an art form, not music.

 

[landtuna]

I would lean to rap being an art form, not music.

A three-year old can paint but it's not art.

A mumble-mouth can talk but it's not art either.

Anecdotally, I don't think Sinatra was nearly as good a singer as he was an actor.

 

[cspotrun]

c'mon people, with 100 or so signals blasting into town with about as many formats...you have to ask yourself, why does cbs-fm feel the NEED to cover ANY kind of rap music? .. i can't think of a better way to drive off the majority of the audience for this station while not pleasing an audience for rap music(that is ALREADY BEING SERVED by dozens of signals into NYC).. i don't get it.

 

[Silkie]

I'm pretty sure they aren't "covering" rap. Rap is covering us, but no worries, because we have it covered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_7Kx2FlFQY

 

[recto101]

Oldies is defined on how the PD's sees it. I listened to the KFRC to Magic 61 clip on airchexx and I heard that Oldies in 1986 meant the 1930's to 1950's meaning before Elvis and Little Richard came in. Also it meant Big Band adult standards & Classic Jazz that KABL 960 and 98.1 used in the 1970's and 1980's. I know Oldies would have meant Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett in the 1980's.

But 30 years later oldies mean music from the 1960's to early 1990's by some stations.

 

[landtuna]

Oldies is defined on how the PD's sees it. I listened to the KFRC to Magic 61 clip on airchexx and I heard that Oldies in 1986 meant the 1930's to 1950's meaning before Elvis and Little Richard came in. Also it meant Big Band adult standards & Classic Jazz that KABL 960 and 98.1 used in the 1970's and 1980's. I know Oldies would have meant Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett in the 1980's.

As a former listener of KFRC and KABL I never heard them use the term "oldies" to define music earlier than 1955. As you said, popular music prior to 1955 was called Big Band or Standards (as well as some copyrighted names like "Music of Your Life" and other names like Dance and Ballroom). In fact, I never heard any Oldies station play music earlier than 1955 unless it was some sort of special Doo Wop or Blues retrospective.

But 30 years later oldies mean music from the 1960's to early 1990's by some stations.

Oldies (popular music from 1955-early 80's not including Disco, grunge, metal) is different than "oldies" (music not from a specific genre or time period).

 

[satech]

In fact, I never heard any Oldies station play music earlier than 1955 unless it was some sort of special Doo Wop or Blues retrospective.

I've heard Oldies stations play Les Paul & Mary Ford's "How High the Moon" and "The World is Waiting for the Sunrise" from 1951. Both are considered to be early rock & roll songs due to Les Paul's invention of the electric guitar and pioneering special effects with over-dubbing.

 

[cspotrun]

I'm pretty sure they aren't "covering" rap. Rap is covering us, but no worries, because we have it covered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_7Kx2FlFQY

speak for yourself, rap is not covering me because i won't listen to it, especially if it shows up on a station that should be a place to get away from it. for those who like rap music there are countless places to get it on radio, but there's only ONE station that claims to play the 60's-70's & some early 80's and that's cbs-fm why would ANYONE expect to hear rap music on this station?
if they want to go deeper into this genre of music, let them change the format, and they can join the legions of stations playing it too. i'll leave radio and go to XM.

 

[landtuna]

In fact, I never heard any Oldies station play music earlier than 1955 unless it was some sort of special Doo Wop or Blues retrospective.

I've heard Oldies stations play Les Paul & Mary Ford's "How High the Moon" and "The World is Waiting for the Sunrise" from 1951. Both are considered to be early rock & roll songs due to Les Paul's invention of the electric guitar and pioneering special effects with over-dubbing.

I don't agree. Neither one fits even the softest side of Rock. They are both popular songs and should not be considered Oldies. There are many genre's that use the electric guitar and dubbing techniques including Country, Jazz and even orchestral.

 

[davideduardo]

I've heard Oldies stations play Les Paul & Mary Ford's "How High the Moon" and "The World is Waiting for the Sunrise" from 1951. Both are considered to be early rock & roll songs due to Les Paul's invention of the electric guitar and pioneering special effects with over-dubbing.

Here is a case of Top 40 mistakenly being identified with rock 'n roll.

Top 40 began in Omaha in 1952, and the first station was a) not called Top 40 and b) played the hits of the day.

Top 40 folded rock 'n roll tunes into the mix when they became hits. But that did not prevent the #1 song for 1959 on WHK's year end survey being Nel Blu di Pinto del Blu by Dominico Modugno... certainly not a rock 'n roll song.

And atrocities such as "Danke Schoen" (I think that means "It smells like poop" in German) and "Honey" being top of the chart Top 40 songs. Or the delightful "Wolverton Mountain."

So the question is, "how far from pure pop/rock does the classic hits format go?"

We know Top 40 and CHR are both names for the exact same thing... so what is really the style, and not age, border for classic hits?

 

[davideduardo]

Oldies (popular music from 1955-early 80's not including Disco, grunge, metal) is different than "oldies" (music not from a specific genre or time period).

In the broadcast and advertising businesses, "oldies" means 60's based Top 40 music, with perhaps a little spillage on one or both sides. "Classic hits" means 70's based Top 40 hits, also with spillage to either or both sides.

Since most, if not all, Top 40 stations played Donna Summer and the Bee Gee's disco songs, then disco is part of the classic hits format, perhaps in limited amounts due to play out. And there were certainly some metal / hard rock tunes that crossed over, although the diehard fan of such music may accuse those songs of being sell-outs.

 

[landtuna]

In the broadcast and advertising businesses, "oldies" means 60's based Top 40 music, with perhaps a little spillage on one or both sides. "Classic hits" means 70's based Top 40 hits, also with spillage to either or both sides.

I'm talking about a pure definition of Oldies, not the agencies definition. And even that doesn't agree with a major number of stations advertising themselves as "Classic Hits". And it seems some stations are abandoning the agency typecast and declaring themselves "Rock and Roll Oldies" or something similar. You will find few 50's songs and nothing newer than 1980 and no crossovers on those stations (with the exception of bands like Nitty Gritty Dirt Band or The Eagles).

Since most, if not all, Top 40 stations played Donna Summer and the Bee Gee's disco songs, then disco is part of the classic hits format, perhaps in limited amounts due to play out. And there were certainly some metal / hard rock tunes that crossed over, although the diehard fan of such music may accuse those songs of being sell-outs.

The Bee Gee's are somewhat of a paradox because of their early Rock hits prior to conversion as a Disco group. I have heard their early stuff on Oldies stations but not their Disco hits. And I don't recall hearing Donna Summer et. al. on Oldies stations. The Oldies genre doesn't necessary mimic old T-40 (which was a wider playlist including Country and Lounge crossovers and, as you mentioned, foreign-language hits ala The Singing Nuns).

 

[bigtom101]

I'm talking about a pure definition of Oldies, not the agencies definition. And even that doesn't agree with a major number of stations advertising themselves as "Classic Hits". And it seems some stations are abandoning the agency typecast and declaring themselves "Rock and Roll Oldies" or something similar.....The Oldies genre doesn't necessary mimic old T-40 (which was a wider playlist including Country and Lounge crossovers and, as you mentioned, foreign-language hits ala The Singing Nuns).

Outside of "The Arrow," I've never heard a oldies/classic hits station bill themselves as "Rock & Roll Oldies" Clear Channel has brought back Oldies on a handful of Classic Hits stations (WRIT and KLOU to name two) - and yet they play plenty of 70's & early 80's. Most say "The Greatest Hits" or "The Greatest Hits of the 60's, 70's and 80's" since Classic Hits encompases pop, rock & R&B that was on Top 40/CHR from that era.

I admit, texture and feel should count more than release date for a song to be thrown in rotation. And given CBS-FM's ratings, I think they found a decent mix of music that spans from the 60's to the 80's. On average they play 3 80's tunes an hour out of 10 - still playing plenty of 60's and 70's.

Sunday nights are usually a throwaway - its why most specialty shows are there - so playing "Wild Thing" isn't representative of the station as a whole. Just as "Funny" by The Contours on WOGL Sunday nights isn't representative of what they usually play during the week.

 

[CTListener]

I'm talking about a pure definition of Oldies, not the agencies definition. And even that doesn't agree with a major number of stations advertising themselves as "Classic Hits". And it seems some stations are abandoning the agency typecast and declaring themselves "Rock and Roll Oldies" or something similar.....The Oldies genre doesn't necessary mimic old T-40 (which was a wider playlist including Country and Lounge crossovers and, as you mentioned, foreign-language hits ala The Singing Nuns).

Outside of "The Arrow," I've never heard a oldies/classic hits station bill themselves as "Rock & Roll Oldies" Clear Channel has brought back Oldies on a handful of Classic Hits stations (WRIT and KLOU to name two) - and yet they play plenty of 70's & early 80's. Most say "The Greatest Hits" or "The Greatest Hits of the 60's, 70's and 80's" since Classic Hits encompases pop, rock & R&B that was on Top 40/CHR from that era.

I admit, texture and feel should count more than release date for a song to be thrown in rotation. And given CBS-FM's ratings, I think they found a decent mix of music that spans from the 60's to the 80's. On average they play 3 80's tunes an hour out of 10 - still playing plenty of 60's and 70's.

Sunday nights are usually a throwaway - its why most specialty shows are there - so playing "Wild Thing" isn't representative of the station as a whole. Just as "Funny" by The Contours on WOGL Sunday nights isn't representative of what they usually play during the week.

Here's a recent hour on WDRC-FM Hartford ("The Biggest Hits are on the Big D"):
Happy Together
Freeway of Love
Brandy
Life's Been Good
Cracklin' Rosie
Do You Believe in Magic
Evil Woman
Me and Mrs. Jones
Philadelphia Freedom
I'm On Fire
Higher and Higher
Half-Breed
Babe
Nights on Broadway


Three '60s, three '80s, the rest '70s. No rap ... yet.

 

[oldies76]

And atrocities such as "Honey"

Atrocities?? Extreme language wouldn't you think?

Rarely played in 2011, but tell that to the record buying crowd in 1968.....You were there...

Just call "Honey", a number one song for many weeks, just a slow sad song that doesn't get airplay....for it's style, lyrics and dated sound.

But an atrocity?? Not playing enough classic hits on radio and cutting that number down to 400 to 800 songs, could come close to an atrocity, but that's another issue.

 

[bigtom101]

Atrocities?? Extreme language wouldn't you think?

How about - "a sappy, maudlin, trite song with lyrics that were dated when were written whose only positive contribution was the inspiration for a brilliant Smothers Brothers skit."

Here's the skit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGBdbRqflUg

Seriously...."kinda dumb, and kinda smart"..."Slipped and almost hurt herself, And I laughed till I cried"...any wonder why this song is scorned?