Rap music on CBS-FM??

[landtuna]

Outside of "The Arrow," I've never heard a oldies/classic hits station bill themselves as "Rock & Roll Oldies"

KODS for one. http://www.river1037.com/

 

[landtuna]

Seriously...."kinda dumb, and kinda smart"..."Slipped and almost hurt herself, And I laughed till I cried"...any wonder why this song is scorned?

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm talking about a pure definition of Oldies, not the agencies definition. And even that doesn't agree with a major number of stations advertising themselves as "Classic Hits". And it seems some stations are abandoning the agency typecast and declaring themselves "Rock and Roll Oldies" or something similar. You will find few 50's songs and nothing newer than 1980 and no crossovers on those stations (with the exception of bands like Nitty Gritty Dirt Band or The Eagles).

For a considerable time, the industry and Arbitron have adopted standard format descriptions that are part of every ratings book... in fact, can be part of every ranker and report.

These descriptions are well deliberated, consulted with a variety of experts and actual stations in a particular format before being adopted or dropped.

When it became obvious that "oldies" had divided into two distinct formats, one 60's based and one 70's based, Arbitron discovered that many such stations had already been calling themselves "classic" hits to distance themselves from the sales kiss-of-death that was "oldies." After consulting among stations that were now 70's based, they found acceptance for the idea of differentiating between the two formats and for the "classic hits" name.

This is not unlike the creation of a new format name, "adult hits," for the Jack and Jack like stations that appeared around a decade ago. Or "Spanish adult hits" for the Spanish language broad-based non-60's gold format.

"Jack" stations do not call themselves "adult hits" on the air, but "Jack" station management approved the format name for sales and Arbitron purposes, just as classic hits stations don't generally call themselves "classic hits" on the air.

Media buyers who may never have heard a station need a standard description so that they can recognize the types of stations they are considering for a buy. This helps them do initial picks, and helps them understand why certain combinations of stations affect reach and frequency positively or negatively.

How many CHR stations use that format name on the air? Positioning, puffery and imaging on the air has nothing to do with how the industry defines formats.

The Bee Gee's are somewhat of a paradox because of their early Rock hits prior to conversion as a Disco group. I have heard their early stuff on Oldies stations but not their Disco hits. And I don't recall hearing Donna Summer et. al. on Oldies stations.

Disco was "Rock the Boat" to "Funky Town." An oldie station would not play those songs based on age... mid to late 70's. Some classic hits stations do, some don't based on a number of factors, starting with burn-out.

 

[davideduardo]

Atrocities?? Extreme language wouldn't you think?

Hit then, atrocity now. Happens all the time.

But an atrocity?? Not playing enough classic hits on radio and cutting that number down to 400 to 800 songs, could come close to an atrocity, but that's another issue.

No, an atrocity is playing so many songs that almost every one drives off a large portion of the audience. In the PPM, that is an absolute, total kiss of death.

 

[cspotrun]

Outside of "The Arrow," I've never heard a oldies/classic hits station bill themselves as "Rock & Roll Oldies"
KODS for one. http://www.river1037.com/

Damn Good point! in the beginning "Rock & Roll" was everything from Bill Haley & the Comets-to Elvis to Bobby Darin to Little Richard & Chuck Berry to Steve Lawrence hitting the top 10 with "Go Away Little Girl".. so WHY should the format know as"Oldies" give up the title ROCK & ROLL(these artists invented)? lets face it when album rock hit the air with Heavy metal they knew they were different they didn't even want to be KNOWN AS ROCK & ROLL they just settled on HALF OF IT and called themselves "ROCK"- and they WERN'T AND ARN'T THE WHOLE DEAL like stations who play CLASSIC ROCK & ROLL.

 

[landtuna]

For a considerable time, the industry and Arbitron have adopted standard format descriptions that are part of every ratings book... in fact, can be part of every ranker and report.

These descriptions are well deliberated, consulted with a variety of experts and actual stations in a particular format before being adopted or dropped.

I understand that the marketing descriptions are created and maintained for sales purposes but that doesn't mean marketing descriptions align with listeners descriptions. I became a teenager in exactly the moment that Bill Haley started the Rock 'n Roll era (although we called it BeBop in the days before RnR became "official") and I was a passionate listener well into the 80's. Once the creativity changed from audio to video I quit listening to so-called "new" music (although having five kids I have been exposed to it at length).

When it became obvious that "oldies" had divided into two distinct formats, one 60's based and one 70's based, Arbitron discovered that many such stations had already been calling themselves "classic" hits to distance themselves from the sales kiss-of-death that was "oldies." After consulting among stations that were now 70's based, they found acceptance for the idea of differentiating between the two formats and for the "classic hits" name.

While I don't doubt your accounting of the evolution of formats I still manage to hear many stations who play both 60's and 70's and there seems to be considerable slop-over from the 70's into the 80's as well. The lines seem very blurred.

From an advertising perspective it may be personally for naught as I have, over the years, developed the ability to tune out sales pitches to the point that should I want to actually hear the pitch I need to hear it multiple times before I am able to retain the information. It seems I am not alone in this ability. Radio ads, and most on TV, are wasted on me. My kids are even quicker to hit the pre-set when a commercial comes on. The use of long stop sets guarantees this reaction and that's if a radio is on in the first place. Most of the time it's MP3 players (which is good because we don't share musical tastes).

It does beg the question though.....how do agencies buy Country listeners? There seem to be only two genre's of Country - Classic and otherwise. Do they consider Classic Country listeners to all be old people vs "new" Country?

 

[oldies76]

Hit then, atrocity now. Happens all the time.

Tell that to the ones who like "Honey"....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59BZxgohr9g

A 98% approval rating, over 6000 responses. Goes to show you.

 

[CTListener]

Hit then, atrocity now. Happens all the time.

Tell that to the ones who like "Honey"....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59BZxgohr9g

A 98% approval rating, over 6000 responses. Goes to show you.

Why would someone who doesn't like "Honey" look for it on YouTube?

 

[recto101]

I'm Not surprised that K-Earth 101 and other oldies stations in the country are putting 80's hits/CHR/Top 40 songs in the playlists its all about attracting younger audiences from 18-40? into the lists. Look Big Band Radio and 50's oldies have moved out of AM/FM radio all together for web radio only unless they went to non-profit FM radio like classical and classic jazz did in most big cities.

 

[landtuna]

... its all about attracting younger audiences from 18-40? into the lists.

Except that, by the industry's own accounts, younger audiences are not listening to popular music radio. At least not in any strength.

 

[oldies76]

Why would someone who doesn't like "Honey" look for it on YouTube?

I realize that....just trying to show that to many people, this song isn't much of an atrocity after all.

 

[recto101]

... its all about attracting younger audiences from 18-40? into the lists.

Except that, by the industry's own accounts, younger audiences are not listening to popular music radio. At least not in any strength.

That is so true most of the younger audiences listen to music only on the web or XM today.

 

[CTListener]

... its all about attracting younger audiences from 18-40? into the lists.

Except that, by the industry's own accounts, younger audiences are not listening to popular music radio. At least not in any strength.

That is so true most of the younger audiences listen to music only on the web or XM today.

That's hard to believe. CHRs still do well in the ratings, and the music they play has almost no appeal to anyone over 30. So who's listening to them?

 

[Jersey Maiden]

To those who say that CBS FM needs to evolve their "oldies" because the 80s are creeping into their 30s and the 90s are creeping into their 20s: Would you apply the same theory to classic rock stations? How would you feel if you heard Limp Bizkit, KoRn or Red Hot Chilli Peppers after Freebird or Hotel California? Sure, there are those general rock stations that are all over the place that you typically find in smaller towns, but most major classic rock stations are still stuck in the 60s and 70s where the only 80s rock being played is Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and Guns n Roses.

Is it necessary for both formats to evolve and include more 80s and 90s or will the song selection sound awkward?

That theory is already being applied to the Q. Last Thursday, I heard STP. Sometimes they play Chili Peppers (Under the Bridge), Nirvana and Pearl Jam. But I think out of all 90's acts, they play Black Crows the most. As a twenty-something, I like that but maybe some older listeners won't.

You don't hear Madonna or Britney's names mentioned today except in derision and that same fate will be Gaga's in a few year's time.

Madonna isn't a very good example when she's a staple on soft rock stations. Tune into any 80's hour on WPLJ and she'll get played at least once. She also made more than one appearance on VH1's Greatest Songs of the 80's.

 

[davideduardo]

That's hard to believe. CHRs still do well in the ratings, and the music they play has almost no appeal to anyone over 30. So who's listening to them?

Hmm.

KIIS in LA is the #1 station in 35-44 year olds, and it is as famous a CHR as Z100. The CHR and Rhytmic CHRs in LA reach something like 60% of the 30-39 year olds in the market.

In New York, Z 100 and WKTU each reach around 25% of the market's 30-39 year olds, so obviously CHR has major appeal among 30 and over.

 

[davideduardo]

... its all about attracting younger audiences from 18-40? into the lists.

Except that, by the industry's own accounts, younger audiences are not listening to popular music radio. At least not in any strength.

That's not true. What is true is that the number of hours spent a week with radio is less due to the many alternatives for entertainment.

But, in a figure comparable to that of 50 years ago, around 94% of 18-34's listen to radio weekly.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm Not surprised that K-Earth 101 and other oldies stations in the country are putting 80's hits/CHR/Top 40 songs in the playlists its all about attracting younger audiences from 18-40?

The goal of KRTH is to attract 35-54 year old listeners, not "18-40."

The 18-34 audience in LA is served by stations like Kiis, Amp and Power.

 

[bigtom101]

That theory is already being applied to the Q. Last Thursday, I heard STP. Sometimes they play Chili Peppers (Under the Bridge), Nirvana and Pearl Jam. But I think out of all 90's acts, they play Black Crows the most. As a twenty-something, I like that but maybe some older listeners won't.

I heard Green Day on Q once, and thought "Wow, classic rock is getting younger!" Same thing that applies to Classic Hits is applying to classic rock...try and find newer songs that mesh with the core playlist to keep the demos on target.

Q is a interesting station - only classic rocker I know that plays "Superstition" by Stevie Wonder. That's something this twentysomething likes...along with the Black Crows (tho I do like the original Hard to Handle by Otis Redding a bit better).

 

[DToTheJ]

"Superstition" is a good record, but I don't see how it qualifies as classic rock. Classic hits, of course, sure, but it doesn't sound like your traditional classic rock record. And Q104.3 isn't the only classic rock station playing it, by the way: I heard it on WKZF in Harrisburg, PA last week...

I have also heard Aretha Franklin's "Respect" on Q104.3 - another odd choice for a classic rock selection, but whatever works... Hey, if "Lite FM" can bend the rules and start adding tracks that don't register as "lite" songs on paper, then what's stopping Q from adding out of the box choices (not to be confused with Jonathan Clarke's old Q104.3 show)... :

 

[DToTheJ]

By the way, people forget that when Q104.3 first debuted in late 1993, they played far more Black Crowes than they do today - then again, back then, they were originally an active rock station before repositioning as a classic rocker in '96...