• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Ratings for Talk in Top 10 Markets

G

Gregg

Only 3 Talk stations are top 10 in the nation's biggest markets. KFI LA is #3, WGN Chicago is #7 and WSB Atlanta is #8. No other Talk station makes the top 10 in a big market.

1. NYC....WABC #15, WOR #19
2. LA....KFI #3, KABC #31
3. Chicago....WGN #7, WLS #11 tie
4. San Francisco....KSFO #20, KKSF #21 tie
5. Dallas....WBAP-AM-FM #17 tie, KLIF #35
6. Houston.....KTRH #15
7. Washington....WMAL-AM-FM #18
8. Philadelphia....WPHT #17
9. Atlanta....WSB/WSBB(FM) #8
10. Boston....WTLK(FM) #15, WRKO #18, WXKS #22

It seems the Talk format is having some problems these days, and it's not just the move away from AM. Putting the Talk format on FM stations in Dallas, Washington and Boston hasn't meant much success.

You might say that stations that use local hosts instead of simply running syndicated shows most of the day might bring more success. WGN is all local 24/7. KFI only runs Limbaugh and Coast to Coast. It's local the rest of the day. And while WSB runs some syndicated programs, Neil Boortz and Clark Howard do their syndicated shows from WSB, so most listeners don't realize it's a national show.

On the other hand, WPHT recently got rid of many of its syndicated shows but that hasn't meant much of a turnaround for this CBS Talk station.



Gregg
[email protected]
 
Talk has been failing for quite some time, at least in the big markets. Ratings are down, cume audience is low, and the core listener is rapidly aging into the 55+ demo that ad agencies want no part of. But it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Couple of reasons for this...many of the "gatekeepers" of these stations and syndicators are middle-aged white men, who tend to prefer this type of programming and will stick with it as long as possible.

Secondly, many of the big station owners like Clear Channel, Cumulus, Salem and others have their own stable of talk talent they syndicate to their stations. It's inexpensive programming for AM signals that would otherwise be brokered or foreign language by now.

Finally, every other year talk stations benefit from massive political spending by special interest groups, SuperPACS, and the candidates themselves. Political is a huge category for them. Historically, if you want to reach the conservative audience, talk radio is the way to do it. However, that's beginning to change. Candidates (particularly Republicans) are placing cable buys on Fox News and dabbling in social media and internet ads. If that trend continues and less is spent at radio, talk may start to die out sooner than anyone could have expected.
 
Surprised to see WGN all the way down at #7...They were at or near the top for years. (WLS has floundered for quite a while.) As far as ads on social media, both Obama and Romney have lots of ads on Facebook.
 
It's costly, but newsradio is the superior format in many of those markets.
 
Talk or News/Talk fares much better in markets outside the top 10. KOA Denver, KIRO-FM Seattle, KMOX St. Louis and WCCO Mpls-St Paul are all top 10 stations in their respective markets. KOA is #1 in Denver. :)
 
Besides the market size difference, here's another difference between KOA, KIRO, KMOX and WCCO compared to the list of top 10 market stations listed at the top of this string:

They're all more locally programmed than most of the top-10 market stations on the list, with the exception of KFI.

It used to be that only medium and small market stations ran mostly syndicated talk programming. While that might work well for those smaller markets (in fact, for cost reasons, it may be the only choice), in a large market it seems local programming is the way to go.
 
WBAP in Dallas/Fort Worth had been running in the top 5 for awhile. But the change in ownership from Citadel to Cumulus is clearing killing the station. They were the ones that let go of Mark Davis to Salem, and replaced him with Ben Ferguson. It's showing in the ratings.
 
radiophiler said:
Besides the market size difference, here's another difference between KOA, KIRO, KMOX and WCCO compared to the list of top 10 market stations listed at the top of this string:

They're all more locally programmed than most of the top-10 market stations on the list, with the exception of KFI.

It used to be that only medium and small market stations ran mostly syndicated talk programming. While that might work well for those smaller markets (in fact, for cost reasons, it may be the only choice), in a large market it seems local programming is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Very well said! New York has the worst talk programming in the country! It's an embarassment for market #1. No wonder WABC came in #15 in the most recent Arbitrons. WOR is even lower. WABC is 100% satellite Mon-Fri, WOR is close to that. A mostly local news/talk outlet in an information hungry market would do very well in New York but no one has the stones to compete against WABC. WOR and WNYM are not competitors, they're just knock offs of WABC.

Sadly, I don't see this ever changing. :mad:
 
It's not about stones it's about MONEY!! WABC as of Monday will be 100% syndicated Monday-Friday with the exception of the 5AM hour of news. A lot cheaper for Cumulus than running a real radio station!!
 
OC3 said:
It's not about stones it's about MONEY!! WABC as of Monday will be 100% syndicated Monday-Friday with the exception of the 5AM hour of news. A lot cheaper for Cumulus than running a real radio station!!
Click to expand...

That could be said for any station operator! Citadel ran WABC in much the same way. BTW, WABC ranked #15 in the most recent NY Arbitrons. I guess that means WABC is so powerful that no one can compete against them.

True, most of WABC's current hosts started local in NYC, then later went national, allowing NY caliber talent to be on the air in small markets. In many markets, Rush, Sean and others have to compete against the local talk outlet. Who's winning in markets with a mostly local talk station? It's the locally focused outlet!

Good for Cumulus' bottom line! Not sure what WABC's ad revenue is, but it's definitely less than CBS' three AM juggernauts, WINS, WCBS and WFAN. And what do those CBS stations have in common: THEY'RE LIVE AND LOCAL!

Just MHO! 8)
 
Yes, there are some large but not major markets with good AM Talk stations, as you mentioned. KOA Denver and WLW Cincinnati are a really solid #1 stations. But look at KDKA Pittsburgh, down to #7. For years, either they were #1 or #2.

WFLA Tampa, always a top 10 station, is now down to #13. 50,000 watt WBT is #12 in Charlotte, and they have a suburban FM simulcast. 50,000 watt WOAI San Antonio is #14. KNXT-AM-FM is #15 in Las Vegas, WDBO-AM-FM is #14 in Orlando.

It's tough for Talk stations these days, whether they have an FM simulcast or not.
 
But, sometimes local doesn't work. WTKK/Boston's ratings have been just as challenged as the all syndie lineups, and they are live and local from IIRC, 7am-10pm. And they are on one of the strongest FM signals in the market. WRKO/Boston is also local most of the day (although Rush is returning soon) and they've really struggled recently. WPHT/Philadelphia is also live and local in the drives, and longtime local turned national talent Michael Smerconish clears live on that station. If it wasn't for the Phillies games, they'd really be in the cellar.

I don't even think this is a "blue state red state" thing anymore, as ratings in blood red areas like Dallas & Houston are just as bad as Democratic strongholds like Philly & Boston. It is still a strong format in smaller cities, small towns and other rural areas and will be for awhile. But, if the format doesn't make adjustments to be more competitive in the major markets, they'll lose the agencies and political, which will eventually snuff out interest in the major syndicated talk talent. Without them, that wipes out the format completely in most markets.
 
Gregg said:
Yes, there are some large but not major markets with good AM Talk stations, as you mentioned. KOA Denver and WLW Cincinnati are a really solid #1 stations. But look at KDKA Pittsburgh, down to #7. For years, either they were #1 or #2.

WFLA Tampa, always a top 10 station, is now down to #13. 50,000 watt WBT is #12 in Charlotte, and they have a suburban FM simulcast. 50,000 watt WOAI San Antonio is #14. KNXT-AM-FM is #15 in Las Vegas, WDBO-AM-FM is #14 in Orlando.

It's tough for Talk stations these days, whether they have an FM simulcast or not.
Click to expand...

OK, fair points. What is it that KOA, WLW and KFI (all CC stations BTW) are doing right? And BTW, I am a proponent of news, talk and sports on FM. :)
 
Milwaukee is another market where news/talk does well. WTMJ is often #1, WISN in the top 10.

In Minneapolis, CC moved their talk station from FM to AM and it initially did just as well on AM, but has since taken a dive.

According to an article posted on another board, the "NPR News" station in Minneapolis has seen a 30% drop in ratings in the past year. Has this happened in other markets?
 
...and then there is Miami. WIOD has zero competition and only gets a cume of 215,000 in a market of 3.6 million! Rank #18 in 6+
 
Some of this analysis of Major Market Talk Radio is a bit skewed....

Most of the august group of stations mentioned in this thread are ex-ABC Radio properties...Which began to degrade when Cap Cities took them over in 1985.

That degradation became deteoration with Citadel....deteoration becoming outright destruction with Cumulus....

Most of the rest have been enveloped by similar circumstances...Iconic stations taken over by holding corporations looking for diversification, not a continuance of Radio as a entity in it's own right.

As we have seen from the frank results, CEO/Senior Corporate manipulation of a stock price in search of a fat bonus check is an amazingly poor substitute for real Broadcasters practicing the Art of Radio Programming....

The ethos unique to Radio of "...operating in the public interest as a public trustee..." has been cast aside along with decades of goodwill and service in the marketplace these legendary stations have provided....(not to mention the loss of the people actually capable of doing it).

That being writ, this discussion does provide a near-perfect microcosm of how those responsible parties are now forced to rationalize putting the golden goose in an ever-tightening vice:

"The major-market talkers aren't pulling the ratings they used to....Talk Radio must be dying...AM Radio must be dying...." Hardly.

No....What's dying is the willingness of Radio Corporate Management to invest in the Tools, Product, and Personnel necessary to engage in hard, free-market competition for Listeners.

J-D

Jon-David Wells
The Wells Report
Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
 
WFTL is actually in the West Palm Beach market, although their daytime signal does easily get into the Miami/Fort Lauderdale metro. Night time it does not. And talk about low ratings. They could barely pop a 1.5 in their home market. LOL
 
radioguy39nj said:

...What is it that KOA, WLW and KFI (all CC stations BTW) are doing right? And BTW, I am a proponent of news, talk and sports on FM. :)
Click to expand...
Only speaking from the gut, but, KOA appears to have it's finger on the pulse of the Denver market, a point that would affirm an earlier post about the advantage of "local" programming. Key example: Mike Rosen's successful mid-morning show.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom