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Ratings: The Real Story

The winners in prime daytime demographics, not necessarily in order to stick to arbitron rules:

25-54 Adults: KMTT, KMPS, KZOK
25-54 Women: KMTT, KMPS, KPLZ
25-54 Men: KZOK, KMTT, KISW


The winners in Mornings:

25-54 Adults: KZOK, KMTT, KMPS
25-54 Men: KZOK, KMTT, KISW
25-54 Women: KMPS, KPLZ, KMTT

Your 18-34 winner remains KUBE. Not much change in the market overall.
 
MOVIN was number TWO 18-34 overall and number 4 in 6a-7p. Ya ya change is in the air as I said one year ago. KISS stinks again, END stinks again.
Seattle remains the number one market for the MOVIN format, as mamma told you. Mamma is ya ya psychic.
 
No serious response to the actual trends? I do get a laugh at the non-serious! No one curious what happened to KKWF? KCMS? JACK? What has happened to all the AM stations? The biggest change in the last couple of years is the complete decline of the AM band, outside of Mariner games at night. Not one AM is in the top ten, except KJR-AM, in morning drive. News or Talk used to be big players in morning drive and still are in several markets. What is going on in Seattle?
 
Dan:

What's going on in morning drive is News is still strong in Seattle.

It just happens that the winning programming is NPR.

You combine the KUOW and KPLU morning drive shares (They both air "morning edition") and you have dominance.
 
Howdy dudes, here's a serious response. THE WOLF is fine, just an odd summer book.
Ya really think they lost 60% of their 18-34 numbers. Look at the last phase of the
book, it was a joke, KUBE, KISW, WOLF cut by 70%. KISS tripling. Didn't happen
cowboys. :'( WOLF is fine and the battle goes on. KCMS is fine just back to where it belongs.
KISS is still hurtin and just good one good phase which still isn't enought to give em a good
book. If they get it fixed I do believe MOVIn is over. As for AM people under 40 just don't
listen it is more of a quality thing. its happened all over the country. Look at KIRO, KTTH
KOMO, KVI, KJR-Am. KJR-am in mornings is the winner, but it aint huge. Most markets got an
FM commercial news station now. My friends in Indy just got the boot as an FM flipped to simulcast an
AM for Emmis. FM KUOW and KPLU are number one (in prime demos and 12+)
in Seattle. Seems KIRO or KOMO need to go FM. Bonneville is doin in in a bunch of
markets. Hmmmmm wonder who will be gointo the FM dial soon. hmmmmmmmmm. Howllllllllll. ;D
 
ELC ... you make a great point. It frustrates me that ARB makes these determinations about what gets included then everyone huddles and makes all kinds of reactions and decisions based on PART of the picture. Most of us would probably gravitate to "there is one non-conservative talk station" in the market when there are several -- regional and non-comm's included.

To say we'll make all these decisions about how to affect listening habits but it's for commercial only is like saying "let's only count the white voters nationwide to predict the presidential race". If someone gets tired of KNDD and gravitates to KEXP it's a factor ... tired of KOMO/KIRO and goes to KUOW it's a factor (no KOMO pun intended). Yet we dismiss it because those players aren't "official contenders" in the great big beauty contest.

Thanks for reminding me those stations have a big influence.
 
djdan said:
No serious response to the actual trends? I do get a laugh at the non-serious! No one curious what happened to KKWF? KCMS? JACK? What has happened to all the AM stations? The biggest change in the last couple of years is the complete decline of the AM band, outside of Mariner games at night. Not one AM is in the top ten, except KJR-AM, in morning drive. News or Talk used to be big players in morning drive and still are in several markets. What is going on in Seattle?

With the Wolf, it was only a matter of time. KMPS deployed their off-air resources and it has paid off.

KCMS has been hit and miss for awhile, depending on where the diaries go.

Jack has been a rudderless ship for awhile. The inevitable format fatigue forced them to stray from what they were originally known for. It has left listeners not to know what to expect, but not in the way the folks at CBS would like it to be.

The News/Talk thing is easy: other on-demand methods have simply caught up with them.
 
The AM band struggles due to there not being a correctly run News/Talk station in Seattle. I enjoy reading all the funny posts here and reading all about Seattle radio...the Seattle board is one of the busy boards after ratings come out! I actually live in Dallas! AM News/Talk wins by having Quality. Why do you think WBAP in DFW is so strong...it starts with Excellent News, Weather and Traffic coverage...having true Helicoptor coverage is a no brainer and sounds real...Weather coverage is second to none...News is awesome too and a station I can tune into. Honestly Sports do not need to be on a News/Talk station except for General News Announcements...but the shows and games need to go...games and shows need to be on the All Sports Stations.

The Problem with the Seattle News/Talk stations is you don't have one!! Both companies need to combine the News Stations with their respective Talk stations.
KTTH is Talk, KVI is Talk, KOMO is News, and KIRO is News. Not a News/Talk in Seattle.

In Dallas WBAP is both...very little Sports as compared to the old days...it works and you have consistent programming for the most part.
In Morning you have Hal Jay who is local with News, Traffic and Weather and some funny talk, Mark Davis- Local Talk Show Host, Rush Limbaugh- National Host (he dominates Mid-days with just about every demo group-most popular in the nation), Sean Hannity- National Host( coming up fast into second place behind Limbaugh in popularity), Mark Levin after that....evenings can be mixed during the Stars Season, but otherwise WBAP has no consistent Sports Shows.
 
I agree 100%. The All-News format is not capable, outside of top 5 markets and maybe Washington DC (a news town). to generate enough TSL to survive. Clear Channel and CBS have been smart in combining the best of News and Talk to formats that deliver both. SF, Dallas, Minneapolis, Chicago, Philly and many other markets have an AM station that continues to rate from 6a-7p. Morning drive is the key daypart for news, mid-day for talk on these stations. The other huge change in the last five years is News/Talk on FM. Drive times are simulcast with younger listeners tuned to FM and older to AM. Talk is split with older conservative Talk on the AM, along with Sports; younger hip Talk on FM. You get cost savings because your news blocks in AM/PM drive are simulcast and because marketing can be duplicated since the call letters and format are the same. News and Program Director are for both AM and FM too.
I suspect that will happen in Seattle soon. especially with the strength of KUOW/KPLU on the FM dial.
On the FM band, let me be clear. KISS is not fixed, but the September extrap with their new music and imaging was encouraging. It was a quick snapshot of what might happen if a Mainstream CHR is programmed well. KUBE declined, MOVIN disappeared. Mornings remain the big weakness on KISS, but I have it on good authority that a lot of coaching is taking place. I congratulate the stations and morning shows that finished top three in adults, men and women 25-54. This is an accomplishment in any major market and these programmers and talent deserve our respect. Part of that respect is to challenge them with competitive programming so they can defend their shares. I also suspect the WOLF will adjust and give KMPS another run.
 
professor...what changes did kiss make to the music?? looking at the playlist...it doesn't really jump out at me??
 
The changes are quite significant, in my humble opinion. Two months ago KBKS Power songs played 80 times a week. Today they play at 100 times a week, typical power rotation for a Mainstream CHR. Secondary powers play at 70 times a week, two months ago KBKS secondary played 40 times a week. Recurrent songs now occupy 30% of the KBKS playlist compared to 20% two months ago. The net result is the station plays big hits more often. About 25% of the non-hit songs are gone in favor of spinning big hits like Kanye and Justin more often. You tune in, you hear hit music. A new commercial clock was instituted adding longer music sweeps and imaging was pulled back to be a bit less "boss Jock" in your face. It blends more with the sound of the station. The station also is dayparted with more recurrent titles during the day. The net result is a hit machine that has few interuptions. Major market CHR is about playing hits. 18-34 year old's tune in for hits, not new music or variety. They have the internet, ipods and fileswapping for that. Play the hits and you win in the Mainstream CHR world. It is really quite simple.

The airstaff has changed with Marcus in afternoons and Tyler moving to nights, upgrades in both shifts and both delivered number one numbers in the September extraps. Mornings and mid-days were up too, but still need work. All talent have been pulled back to allow the music to be more forefront. Pretty much basic CHR mechanics. When literally 33% of your playlist are mid-level wannabe songs or out of format songs like Dixie Chicks or John Mayer, no wonder the station suffered. These obvious mistakes allowed niche format like MOVIN to get a foothold. Early trends and research shows KBKS is on its way back. MOVIN, will be cut in half this Fall from its summer number. Very encouraging for the staff and good people at KBKS and for this market. Huge changes in just a couple of months.
 
radioprofessor said:
The changes are quite significant, in my humble opinion. Two months ago KBKS Power songs played 80 times a week. Today they play at 100 times a week, typical power rotation for a Mainstream CHR. Secondary powers play at 70 times a week, two months ago KBKS secondary played 40 times a week. Recurrent songs now occupy 30% of the KBKS playlist compared to 20% two months ago. The net result is the station plays big hits more often. About 25% of the non-hit songs are gone in favor of spinning big hits like Kanye and Justin more often. You tune in, you hear hit music. A new commercial clock was instituted adding longer music sweeps and imaging was pulled back to be a bit less "boss Jock" in your face. It blends more with the sound of the station. The station also is dayparted with more recurrent titles during the day. The net result is a hit machine that has few interuptions. Major market CHR is about playing hits. 18-34 year old's tune in for hits, not new music or variety. They have the internet, ipods and fileswapping for that. Play the hits and you win in the Mainstream CHR world. It is really quite simple.

The airstaff has changed with Marcus in afternoons and Tyler moving to nights, upgrades in both shifts and both delivered number one numbers in the September extraps. Mornings and mid-days were up too, but still need work. All talent have been pulled back to allow the music to be more forefront. Pretty much basic CHR mechanics. When literally 33% of your playlist are mid-level wannabe songs or out of format songs like Dixie Chicks or John Mayer, no wonder the station suffered. These obvious mistakes allowed niche format like MOVIN to get a foothold. Early trends and research shows KBKS is on its way back. MOVIN, will be cut in half this Fall from its summer number. Very encouraging for the staff and good people at KBKS and for this market. Huge changes in just a couple of months.

all hail professor rivers.

weren't you the one who said that kbks needed a talent overhaul and now you're mentioning tyler and marcus having great #'s....so which one is it? are they good enough to stay in your eyes now?

kbks had a fluke book...so did the wolf. i doubt you'll see kbks go anywhere but down in the fall. a run down/played out station concert will not do enough to keep that audience. and a 65 year old pd is not the answer. a legend sure, but not the kind of new-chr blood you need. cbs could have gone out and got a young stud to turn that ship around, but instead they go get someone who could program the hell out of a chr station.........if it were 1992.
 
ilovebeer said:
all hail professor rivers.

weren't you the one who said that kbks needed a talent overhaul and now you're mentioning tyler and marcus having great #'s....so which one is it? are they good enough to stay in your eyes now?

C'mon - do you REALLY think Steve Rivers is taking time from programming KBKS to post here and entertain a bunch of radio wannabes and has beens?
 
radioprofessor said:
The changes are quite significant, in my humble opinion. Two months ago KBKS Power songs played 80 times a week. Today they play at 100 times a week, typical power rotation for a Mainstream CHR.

Where do you come up with this stuff?!

Kiss has been rotating their songs like that for awhile, well before Rivers became PD. They have the "super power" songs, just like every other CHR spins. The rotations have been the same for awhile.

The only difference now is what songs are dropped in each Jackie and Bender hour. And of late, they're playing a little more music. THAT is the "difference" in rotations.

Sheesh. :-*
 
AQH...the rotations changed about 10 weeks ago when Steve Perun began consulting. There was an increase from the 80 range to around 100 then. J&B are apparently now following one of River's rules: when you play 1 song, play 2---in other words, always 2 songs in a row in morning. So now, you are getting at least 6 songs per hour. Based on looking at music logs via an online service, that went into effect this week. The main change in powers happened with Perun joining the team.

There is no question that the hit factor is much higher now and that as radioprofessor noted, there is a higher recurrent component than previously.
 
You are correct AQH, this is what every strong CHR in America does, up until 2 months ago, it was not what KBKS was doing. That has been fixed. Tyler is a strong night talent (but he was on afternoons). Marcus D is an established afternoon talent in SF and Seattle and was not on the air, now he is. Upgrades are coming I suspect in Middays and afternoons. If you note in the last extrap nights and afternoons were number 1: 18-34. Mornings and mid-days remain a work in progress. This is a chance for this market to watch how a station is rebuilt. You first start with music, the basis of a format. You then fix imaging and basic promotions (which can't be revealed on this board). Then come the personality shifts: In CHR, you fix nights and afternoons first; mornings and mid-days follow. Ratings respond.

In AC, you start with music and then fix mid-days first. In News, you fix the product and then mornings first. My point here is that this is all just basic radio, but the execution at KBKS was all that was missing. MOVIN and KUBE will decline in numbers as KBKS rebounds. Should take no more than a book or two to fix everything but morning drive. Mornings take a bit longer in all formats, but given the mid-level morning talent in Seattle, it is not an impossible task.
 
radioprofessor said:
I agree 100%. The All-News format is not capable, outside of top 5 markets and maybe Washington DC (a news town). to generate enough TSL to survive.

Take away a degree Prof -- all news stations are never going to be big TSL stations -- they can work in the very largest markets because they can get a huge CUME. From a TSL point of view they are still very inefficient. In the very largest markets the idea is to keep people worried enough to tune in 3-4 times a day. Like a hungry whale the station needs multiple feedings.

Outside of the largest markets the news stations turn to talk (or talk-lite substitutes like Dori Monson) or sports for middays/nights/weekends when they don't have a chance of bringing in enough cume.
 
Not sure what night number you are looking for. KIRO nights does very poor, so does KOMO nights in non-Mariner times. During the Mariner season KOMO ranks #1 at night, #24 when the Mariners don't play. KIRO is in the same position. The top night show on the AM dial belongs to KVI with the Coast to Coast A. Bell type program. If you are asking about the KBKS night show, the new show has only been on one month and ranked #1 for the extrap month of September. Overall KBKS nights have been quite poor for some time, so September might be a spike trend. In the last couple of books 25-54 nights in Seattle have belonged to the Mariners, KUBE, KISW, KZOK, KPLZ, and KRWM.
 
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