Ratings: The Sound tanks!

[LARadioNUT]

Why do you think there is no real morning show there? It seems like a really bad iPod station.

 

[scooty430]

As someone who used to live in Eagle Rock, I can tell you that Glendale is very, very different from the Westside and much of the Valley. Especially these days, as it has become largely Armenian.

Who is talking about Glendale? I mentioned my office as being in that area, but there is no Iron Curtain around the town, and I drive about 20 thousand miles a year, which would be hard to do inside Glendale alone.

You, do, however, come up with the strangest non sequiturs in your post.

There are actually many rabid music fans in LA: the entire music industry is based here

I think Nashville and New York would take issue with you. In any case, only a fraction of the music industry is here.

- session musicians on up. And you've got all the film industry folks, who are also typically informed musically.

And they all like AAA? Yeah, right.

Either be a JACK or a KLOS and play it broad, or actually BE about the music, take some chances, and develop a passionate following.

There are not enough people here that might like any kind of AAA to develop a passionate following, even more so than 12 years ago when KSCA failed, too.

(And as for "rabid posters," I have 600 posts. You have 14,000.)

"Rabid" is not a quantity, but a quality. And it's one you have an overabundance of.

I would characterize both the tone (hostile, defensive, obstinate) and the volume (huge) of your posts as "rabid." Sorry.

As for non-sequitors.....huh? You gave your address as Glendale. And my point is that Glendale is not necessarily like the rest of LA. Unlike you, (apparently) I live here all the time.

"A fraction of the music industry" is in LA. I agree. Maybe the fraction is 3/4? LOL.

Lastly, you said that musicians don't like AAA. But you are so focused on viciously and endlessly attacking those three letters you fail to read carefully. I actually said the music (and wider creative) community would enjoy something that is NOT AAA, but something that plays ALL rock from 54 to now, programmed by humans who LOVE MUSIC.

Get it?

 

[davideduardo]

As for non-sequitors.....huh? You gave your address as Glendale. And my point is that Glendale is not necessarily like the rest of LA. Unlike you, (apparently) I live here all the time.

This is a fun game of rope-a-dope. I said I "lived" in Glendale and I put "live" in quotes, meaning, to anyone understanding the use of quotes, that I was making a special use of the term. I live in the LA metro, and have lived here for close to two decades. But the location of my residence is irrelevant, as is the location of yours.

People who work in radio tend to visit, often, many and different parts of the area the station or stations they are with serve. Where one sleeps at night is not really the most important factor in knowing a market... seeing and talking to listners all around the market is.

"A fraction of the music industry" is in LA. I agree. Maybe the fraction is 3/4? LOL.

It's more likely that the figure is around a third or a little less. Just look at any industry directory for the locations of record company offices, recording studios, etc.

Lastly, you said that musicians don't like AAA.

I said no such thing. I said that not all musicians like AAA. And that is the truth. Even where AA does well, which is in a handful of cities, the shares are way below even 10% of the audience... meaning that most... nay, nearly all, the local listeners choose not to listen to AAA.

But you are so focused on viciously and endlessly attacking those three letters you fail to read carefully. I actually said the music (and wider creative) community would enjoy something that is NOT AAA, but something that plays ALL rock from 54 to now, programmed by humans who LOVE MUSIC.

First, that is not a format, it's a garbage disposal. And second, it's getting harder and harder to understand what you mean, particularly since you are busily misquoting and twisting other peoples' posts.

And all stations are programmed by humans. Your statement is aburdly ridiculous... or maybe just plain silly. No Audio Vault has gone "Hal" on us so far!

 

[Robnoxious]

The Sound's biggest problem is they keep saying they are doing something different but not at all delivering on that promise or showing any attemptive initiative to ever do so. Playing Low Spark Of High-Heeled Boys by Traffic doesn't make some station a pioneer, it just lets the jock have more time for a smoke and a piss break.

 

[Doctah]

As to the notion that The Sound should position itself as a "hipper, harder KCRW" -- we already have that in this market, it's called Indie 103.1. And we know how well *that's* working out, LOL.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

As to the notion that The Sound should position itself as a "hipper, harder KCRW" -- we already have that in this market, it's called Indie 103.1. And we know how well *that's* working out, LOL.

Uh oh watch out -- someone's bound to play the "Bad Signal" card !! ;D ;D

But there is a big difference for Indie.. If they go off the air tomorrow, they still will have stayed on longer than The Sound will wind up doing

Actually I always thought the AAA format should have gone or should go to the 92.7s (in O.C. and Thousand Oaks, not Adelanto). But then the Westside can't get the signal well enough. But I think 92.7 might get more than a 0.2 with a real (not 'pretend') AAA format not what's on 100.3 fm.

 

[Doctah]

If Indie tanks, I'd seriously suggest someone pick it up for their HD2 signal. Although a small listnership, Indie's fans appear to be rabidly loyal... and at least a few of them, I assume, would buy HD radios or listen to the streaming online that it would make it worth someone's while...

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

If Indie tanks, I'd seriously suggest someone pick it up for their HD2 signal. Although a small listnership, Indie's fans appear to be rabidly loyal... and at least a few of them, I assume, would buy HD radios or listen to the streaming online that it would make it worth someone's while...

And what kind of an economic impact would that have for any stations bottom line? Hardly any HD-2 stations sell ads. For that matter, the advertising environment for even the most successful stations is at best dim in this economy. Soon, you'll see some HD-2 signals just turned off to save money. HD-2 is even more dead than The Sound, anyway.

Indie isn't a success. It's a total failure. Even more so than a former format on that frequency, KDL.

 

[gerald]

I guess I should defer to you guys since you all seem to be experts in your field, but explain to me how on earth you can "know" with such granite certainty, that AAA can't possibly work in this market? Or any market, for that matter? We all know that The Sound is most assuredly NOT AAA, so it's not an example of anything except a poorly executed, poorly planned format.

Radio programming is like TV programming in the respect that until you put it on the air and give it a fair shake, you absolutely cannot predict what will work and what won't. Since there is no AAA in LA, we can't know if it would go over well or not. And even if it didn't get such great numbers, isn't it the demos that matter anyway? It would be bound to skew upscale, educated, higher income ... kinda like classical, eh? Or KCRW (if they ran ads).

Yes I'm prejudiced towards AAA, but I think we also need to realize that until it's given a real trial, it hasn't been given a real trial. And don't throw KSCA at me, in radio terms that's now from the Paleolithic era.

 

[Doctah]

>And what kind of an economic impact would that have for any stations bottom line? Hardly any HD-2 stations sell ads. For that matter, >the advertising environment for even the most successful stations is at best dim in this economy. Soon, you'll see some HD-2 signals just >turned off to save money. HD-2 is even more dead than The Sound, anyway.

Not my point. The economic impact would be minimal. But if you're broadcasting an HD-2 signal that is a computer-generated format that no one's listening to, you might as well throw some Indie songs instead into that computer and slap a few "Indie" station IDs in it.. much like KROQ's HD-2 signal at least offers something people might seek out and could potentially one day turn into a business, this would be the same thing. If HD-2 has any future -- and you're right, it probably doesn't -- the formats need to have familiar brands that might attract at least a handful of listeners.

 

[davideduardo]

I guess I should defer to you guys since you all seem to be experts in your field, but explain to me how on earth you can "know" with such granite certainty, that AAA can't possibly work in this market? Or any market, for that matter?

This has been said several times before, but here goes again...

The LA market 12+ is 41% Hispanic, 8% Black, 12% Asian and about 10% first generation immigrants from places like Persia, the Middle East, Russia and the former Soviet Union.

In all markets, Hispanics index very low on AAA listening... for all purposes, none.
Blacks make up less than 1% of AAA listening. Again, none.
Asians don't use AAA to any extent.
Persians, Arabs, Russinas who came here as adults don't listen to AAA.

So, only about 25% of the population of LA is even in the group where AAA listeners might be found.

If AAA gets a 4 share elsewhere, it will get a 1 share here. That's not enough.

Yes I'm prejudiced towards AAA, but I think we also need to realize that until it's given a real trial, it hasn't been given a real trial. And don't throw KSCA at me, in radio terms that's now from the Paleolithic era.

If anything, the market is more ethnic and less interested in AAA now than 10 years ago. KSCA was sold to some company that made it #1 with Spanish language programming because they could not move the ratings above about a 1 share.

 

[MarcR]

As to the notion that The Sound should position itself as a "hipper, harder KCRW" -- we already have that in this market, it's called Indie 103.1. And we know how well *that's* working out, LOL.

Yet another gratuitous swipe at Indie, what a shocker! Actually, though I only listen to the station over the Net because I live in suburban NYC, I've ascertained that the station sounds significantly better now than it did even a few months ago. By playing more accessible music, it no longer comes across as "too cool for the room".
And canceling Danny Masterson's specialty show wasn't a bad idea either!

 

[Zeb Norris]

"The format, simply, has no roots in SoCal."

Couldn't you argue that in some ways, KNX-FM between 1973 and 1983 was the first AAA station.

No. KINK in Portland OR and WXRT in Chicago were already on the air in 1973.

 

[john77]

This station is starting to compete with KMVN as most uninteresting station in the market. Yes, that was Prince's "Purple Rain" (the long version) you heard during PM drive on Friday. *sigh*

Focus... it would be easy for this station to be focused... right now, all they are is a really bad version of JACK-FM so to speak. Large library, but a large amount of songs which really are owned by other formats.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

This station is starting to compete with KMVN as most uninteresting station in the market. Yes, that was Prince's "Purple Rain" (the long version) you heard during PM drive on Friday. *sigh*

Focus... it would be easy for this station to be focused... right now, all they are is a really bad version of JACK-FM so to speak. Large library, but a large amount of songs which really are owned by other formats.

Uninteresting?? You bet, but even worse...They are the biggest disappointment for fans of the 'format' though their execution of said 'format' will lead to the station's 'execution'. I sure don't know how deeeeeep Bonneville's pockets are but they'd better be deeper than deep. I don't think the library is all that large when compared to other stations in the genre. There are very few songs they play that I am not familiar with, maybe 1 a day. I haven't really listened for any long stretches in many months, but I do check their 'recently played' playlists and it's usually a big ho-hum.

You're right about the songs owned by other stations, The Sound averages one that's ONE new/current/recurrent song per hour for the entire day. Of those songs, 2/3 are AAA-type songs you wouldn't expect to hear elsewhere. Then they might play from their gold library one song per two hours not heard elsewhere. The rest of the playlist is as you stated. The listenership numbers have been flat or down a tiny bit in the last four months. Really, as others have opined since Day One of The Sound, in this radio market they were DOA. Thank God we have Internet streams available to hear!! 8)

 

[john77]

This station is starting to compete with KMVN as most uninteresting station in the market. Yes, that was Prince's "Purple Rain" (the long version) you heard during PM drive on Friday. *sigh*

Focus... it would be easy for this station to be focused... right now, all they are is a really bad version of JACK-FM so to speak. Large library, but a large amount of songs which really are owned by other formats.

They are the biggest disappointment for fans of the 'format' though their execution of said 'format' will lead to the station's 'execution'.

Unfortunately, that is true...

 

[airpab]

I, DE and many others on here, predicted this situation for The Sound at it's inception!

DE based his predictions/evaluations on hard facts and figures about the L.A. market...and they are unfortunately playing out for Bonneville.

My prediction/evaluation was more based on gut, which is also a part of successful programming for a station, especially a new one and especially in this format.

I said this at the beginning....If the so-called radio geniuses at Bonneville had just taken a page from the AAA playbook their friends up North at KFOG use, they "might have" had a slim chance at doing something in L.A. with The Sound. So now, they need to re-evaluate.

Bonneville can still flip to a Top 40 and come right at KIIS (which just continues to glide along without any direct competitor and make tons of money)....The question is...Do they have the insight and fortitude to swallow their pride, let The Sound go, and go for where the real ratings and advertising dollars can be found??

 

[dgendvil]

I wonder if places like Vancouver & Toronto in Canada (minus French Montreal) have higher minority populations than Los Angeles, since they're more of a multicultural & diverse country than ours does?

 

[davideduardo]

I wonder if places like Vancouver & Toronto in Canada (minus French Montreal) have higher minority populations than Los Angeles, since they're more of a multicultural & diverse country than ours does?

Vancouver, with about 2 million population, per Statistics Canada, has about 700,000 Asians. The rest are mostly British, multigenerational Canadian or European in origin. But as much as half the population could be considered ethinc or minority. Toronto, with over 4 million, has about a million Chinese, Pakistanis, East Indians, Filipinos, etc.

Toronto is at http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo27k-eng.htm and you can click on Vancouver on that page...

None has the kind of ethnic majorities that LA has: 42% Hispanic, 12% Asian and 8% Black, although for diversity of national origin, Vancouver is definitely amazing. It's also a beautiful and friendly city.

 

[john77]

I, DE and many others on here, predicted this situation for The Sound at it's inception!

DE based his predictions/evaluations on hard facts and figures about the L.A. market...and they are unfortunately playing out for Bonneville.

My prediction/evaluation was more based on gut, which is also a part of successful programming for a station, especially a new one and especially in this format.

I said this at the beginning....If the so-called radio geniuses at Bonneville had just taken a page from the AAA playbook their friends up North at KFOG use, they "might have" had a slim chance at doing something in L.A. with The Sound. So now, they need to re-evaluate.

Bonneville can still flip to a Top 40 and come right at KIIS (which just continues to glide along without any direct competitor and make tons of money)....The question is...Do they have the insight and fortitude to swallow their pride, let The Sound go, and go for where the real ratings and advertising dollars can be found??

To answer that last question, probably not. See Emmis and KMVN.