WPEN-FM beats WYSP-FM? Did the Fanatic jump that much in one month?
http://www.radio-info.com/site/markets/grid/philadelphia
http://www.radio-info.com/site/markets/grid/philadelphia
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- Thread starter Bill_W
- Start date
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musicman3355
Guest
Mike said:
Again, why move WIP to FM? WIP is doing very well on 610 AM.
WYSP is a lost cause. But instead of moving WIP to 94.1, wouldn’t it make more sense to make 94.1 a simulcast of KYW?
KCBS in San Francisco is already being simulcast on the grandfathered, superpowered FM signal at 106.9, and the simulcast is working well for CBS out there (see today’s TRI: http://www.radio-info.com/newsletter/html/tri-06172010.html ).
WIP covers the Philadelphia market more than adequately – much better than the 610 signal in SF covers that market, and better than KYW covers this market, at least in most of South Jersey. (A few years ago, CBS acquired 106.9 in SF from Harold Camping’s Family Radio – which still owns the less desirable WKDN on 106.9 here – for 610 there and a ton of cash. I think that deal saved Family Radio from bankruptcy.)
For a 50-kilowatter, KYW’s signal coverage isn’t that great. While it’s fine on limited-access highways and some back country roads, there are plenty of main arteries here in South Jersey where LED traffic lights, leaky cable and DSL lines and other contemporary sources of interference make it unlistenable in the car.
Who would benefit from the demise of ’YSP? Probably two Greater Media stations: WMMR and WMGK.
(Yes, I know KYW is already on WYSP’s HD-2. But putting anything on an HD-2 is, to put it as politely as possible, an empty gesture. “HD” will never – repeat, NEVER – amount to anything!)
KCBS in San Francisco is already being simulcast on the grandfathered, superpowered FM signal at 106.9, and the simulcast is working well for CBS out there (see today’s TRI: http://www.radio-info.com/newsletter/html/tri-06172010.html ).
WIP covers the Philadelphia market more than adequately – much better than the 610 signal in SF covers that market, and better than KYW covers this market, at least in most of South Jersey. (A few years ago, CBS acquired 106.9 in SF from Harold Camping’s Family Radio – which still owns the less desirable WKDN on 106.9 here – for 610 there and a ton of cash. I think that deal saved Family Radio from bankruptcy.)
For a 50-kilowatter, KYW’s signal coverage isn’t that great. While it’s fine on limited-access highways and some back country roads, there are plenty of main arteries here in South Jersey where LED traffic lights, leaky cable and DSL lines and other contemporary sources of interference make it unlistenable in the car.
Who would benefit from the demise of ’YSP? Probably two Greater Media stations: WMMR and WMGK.
(Yes, I know KYW is already on WYSP’s HD-2. But putting anything on an HD-2 is, to put it as politely as possible, an empty gesture. “HD” will never – repeat, NEVER – amount to anything!)
A KYW simulcast on 94.1, making that KYW-FM, would indeed make sense. 1060's augmented figure 8 pattern not only protects adjacent-channel WEPN to the northeast, but also protects the silent 1060 in Quebec, which is still notified by Canada. To the southwest, it protects XEEP, which runs 50 kW days, 20 kW nights in Mexico City, non- directional.
Just like 610, the ratings on 1060 are just fine. 1060s are even better. They have a 6.0. There is no reason to move them to FM when they are doing very well on AM. Yes, I know, demos. But do we really think that many more young people are going to listen to news just because it's on FM?
You have to compare two sets of combined ratings:
1) KYW on 1060 + music on WYSP
2) KYW on 94.1 + ??? on 1060.
There is no way the combined ratings are better on 2 than on 1, even in demo.
The combined 6+ ratings today are an 8.4. KYW on FM maybe pulls a 6.5 instead of the 6.0 it pulls on AM. What are you going to put on 1060 that's going to pull a 1.9?
CBS needs to figure something out for 94.1. But there's no reason to essentially blow up a successful AM station because they can't figure it out on the FM side.
Maybe what CBS should do to do is upgrade the signal at 1210 to its full 50 kw clear channel non-directional potential, and then move the local sports format over there (and keep the Phillies there), and put the mostly syndicated political talk on 610.
(BTW, the corrections to the book haven't actually made it up on radio-info's page yet. And WPEN AM-FM is pulling a 2.0 combined. That has to be less than WPEN AM plus the hot AC on 97.5 were pulling.
You have to compare two sets of combined ratings:
1) KYW on 1060 + music on WYSP
2) KYW on 94.1 + ??? on 1060.
There is no way the combined ratings are better on 2 than on 1, even in demo.
The combined 6+ ratings today are an 8.4. KYW on FM maybe pulls a 6.5 instead of the 6.0 it pulls on AM. What are you going to put on 1060 that's going to pull a 1.9?
CBS needs to figure something out for 94.1. But there's no reason to essentially blow up a successful AM station because they can't figure it out on the FM side.
Maybe what CBS should do to do is upgrade the signal at 1210 to its full 50 kw clear channel non-directional potential, and then move the local sports format over there (and keep the Phillies there), and put the mostly syndicated political talk on 610.
(BTW, the corrections to the book haven't actually made it up on radio-info's page yet. And WPEN AM-FM is pulling a 2.0 combined. That has to be less than WPEN AM plus the hot AC on 97.5 were pulling.
WPHT's deal with the Phillies is up after this season. WPEN-FM will probably be a player for next season's broadcast rights. Baseball teams in a number of markets (Orioles, Pirates, Tigers) have left their heritage 50 kW blasters for FM sports and talk stations. If 97.5 lands the rights to any of the Philadelphia pro teams, that would certainly raise their profile.
In SF, All News KCBS is simulcast on both 50 kW blaster 740 AM and powerful class B 106.9 FM. With the simulcast, they recently beat KGO, another 50 kW blaster (810 AM), who had been #1 in the Bay Area for many years. Given that success, CBS would have to consider it in Philadelphia, New York or Chicago.
Regarding WKDN, can 106.9 be built out to full power?
In SF, All News KCBS is simulcast on both 50 kW blaster 740 AM and powerful class B 106.9 FM. With the simulcast, they recently beat KGO, another 50 kW blaster (810 AM), who had been #1 in the Bay Area for many years. Given that success, CBS would have to consider it in Philadelphia, New York or Chicago.
Regarding WKDN, can 106.9 be built out to full power?
DToTheJ said:
Funny. Someone from NY who was carrying a PPM spent some time in Philly or New Jersey last month.
There was an Atlanta station that made the NY book a while back. Or maybe a NY station that made the Atlanta book. Had to have been caused by someone traveling with their PPM.
I think what this tells us is that the sample size on the PPM might be too small.
aindik said:
"Funny. Someone from NY who was carrying a PPM spent some time in Philly or New Jersey last month.
There was an Atlanta station that made the NY book a while back. Or maybe a NY station that made the Atlanta book. Had to have been caused by someone traveling with their PPM.
I think what this tells us is that the sample size on the PPM might be too small."
It's absolutely ridiculous that this medium let's an arrogant, overpriced, monopoly company in Arbitron decide the course of its measurement and subsequently in many cases its ad buys. Another reason why digital media will overtake sooner than later with its EXACT measurement capabilities. Not only are sample sizes way to small and non-diverse, as pointed out above the PPM is nothing more than "drive-by measurement" in so many instances in which those that have the device pick up a station that may be playing in the background even if the device-holder has no inkling to listen to such station on a regular basis. It may be better than the diary system to some, but overall terrestrial media can't deliver exact results so it's hard to get worked up one way or another about "ratings." And, in the example listed above, it may be funny to someone with no stake in the matter, but it's unfortunately not so funny to those who have the misfortune of having their business directly influenced by these "drive-by" situations. The only winner here is Arbitron.
"Funny. Someone from NY who was carrying a PPM spent some time in Philly or New Jersey last month.
There was an Atlanta station that made the NY book a while back. Or maybe a NY station that made the Atlanta book. Had to have been caused by someone traveling with their PPM.
I think what this tells us is that the sample size on the PPM might be too small."
It's absolutely ridiculous that this medium let's an arrogant, overpriced, monopoly company in Arbitron decide the course of its measurement and subsequently in many cases its ad buys. Another reason why digital media will overtake sooner than later with its EXACT measurement capabilities. Not only are sample sizes way to small and non-diverse, as pointed out above the PPM is nothing more than "drive-by measurement" in so many instances in which those that have the device pick up a station that may be playing in the background even if the device-holder has no inkling to listen to such station on a regular basis. It may be better than the diary system to some, but overall terrestrial media can't deliver exact results so it's hard to get worked up one way or another about "ratings." And, in the example listed above, it may be funny to someone with no stake in the matter, but it's unfortunately not so funny to those who have the misfortune of having their business directly influenced by these "drive-by" situations. The only winner here is Arbitron.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
Because every other attempt to do that, either head-on or from the margins, has worked so well.
What he's trying to say the Fresh approach has not been successful elsewhere....NY, DC, or Chicago.
And in Philly, B 101 owns the copyright to Fresh. They were proactive and licensed it from the creator of the format before CBS began popping it up in other markets other than NY. aB also uses it in some of their on air promos...
Greater Media already gave it a shot with "Now" and we all know how well that turned out.
And in Philly, B 101 owns the copyright to Fresh. They were proactive and licensed it from the creator of the format before CBS began popping it up in other markets other than NY. aB also uses it in some of their on air promos...
Greater Media already gave it a shot with "Now" and we all know how well that turned out.
Note to aindik about Reply #10:
Did you actually read what I wrote in Reply #6, and what DG02816 said in Reply #9?
We were talking about an AM-FM simulcast like the one in San Francisco. Nobody suggested blowing up the AM operation.
WIP and KYW are both directional, but KYW’s more restricted pattern makes it weaker than WIP in much of the market, despite having 10 dB more power. Of course, having a much longer wavelength helps WIP’s groundwave coverage, too.
With a more dependable signal, an FM signal (in addition to its AM signal), KYW could easily enjoy a 20 percent or better increase in audience. And even if the increase fell a little short of the size of WYSP’s present audience, the money CBS would save by blowing up ’YSP and not replacing it with a different music format would probably yield a net gain for them.
Did you actually read what I wrote in Reply #6, and what DG02816 said in Reply #9?
We were talking about an AM-FM simulcast like the one in San Francisco. Nobody suggested blowing up the AM operation.
WIP and KYW are both directional, but KYW’s more restricted pattern makes it weaker than WIP in much of the market, despite having 10 dB more power. Of course, having a much longer wavelength helps WIP’s groundwave coverage, too.
With a more dependable signal, an FM signal (in addition to its AM signal), KYW could easily enjoy a 20 percent or better increase in audience. And even if the increase fell a little short of the size of WYSP’s present audience, the money CBS would save by blowing up ’YSP and not replacing it with a different music format would probably yield a net gain for them.
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