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RBR.com: Joe McCoy speaks

L

lance

Guest
The following letter appeared in today's Radio Business Report from former WCBS-FM PD Joe McCoy.

It happened almost a year to the day (6/2/04) since I left WCBS-FM. Surprising? No. When the Sales Department continually complains to the GM that they are having a problem selling it because of low 25-54 ratings you expect a change is going to come. GM's and Upper Management do not come from Programming. They have no attachment to the audience or the format, just the bottom line. I guess the question is why change a station that makes millions of dollars when you can change one that has been treading water for 3 years? Namely WNEW-FM.... It's hard to image N.Y.C. without an Oldies Station but, maybe it won't be for long. If some company has the foresight to talk to me and the CBS-FM jocks they would have a "plug-in" 3+ share (12+). What really bothered me was that there was no retro-montage of a Legendary Radio Station before it switched format. I think 33 years as "America's Most Listened To Oldies Station" deserved at least that.

Joe McCoy
Former WCBS-FM - PD
(I am retiring from Viacom/Infinity on July 12th but not Radio)



</P>
 
While I agree with McCoy that WCBS-FM (and WJMK for that matter) deserved a better sendoff, I still think it is a longshot that the oldies format returns to a major FM signal anytime soon. The fact that Infinity blew out oldies in two major markets at the same time, was basically a death knell for the format's future. Yes, one station could flip to oldies and get the "plug-in 3 share" McCoy alluded to. But then, no station has yet to flip to country to get a "plug-in" 2 share that would come with it. I know country is a completely different cat than oldies, but when it comes to demographics, think about it.

Thanks, Lance, for bringing this to our attention.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>
 
> While I agree with McCoy that WCBS-FM (and WJMK for that
> matter) deserved a better sendoff, I still think it is a
> longshot that the oldies format returns to a major FM signal
> anytime soon. The fact that Infinity blew out oldies in two
> major markets at the same time, was basically a death knell
> for the format's future. Yes, one station could flip to
> oldies and get the "plug-in 3 share" McCoy alluded to. But
> then, no station has yet to flip to country to get a
> "plug-in" 2 share that would come with it. I know country is
> a completely different cat than oldies, but when it comes to
> demographics, think about it.
>
> Thanks, Lance, for bringing this to our attention.
>
You have to be a New Yorker (and I mean city not state) to understand what happened. NYC is not a country market. WACBS FM earned 34 million dollars last year. that made it the 9th highest grossing station in this market. The station did very well, not just in audience figures. This was a corperate move by peopole who don't understand NY and I doubt this format makes it to the end of the year. This was a short sighted move. The fact that a page on a relatively obscure radio board has received 55,000 hits since Friday night and there are demands from hundreds of people (I know, I'm one of them) who want a password so that they can join this fight and the fact that Leslie Moonves was quoted today as saying "It seemed like we had shot somebody when we changed the WCBS-FM format" says something. I've seen mistakes taken back and the fact that no one other than Dolenz was actually fired might say something.
 
> You have to be a New Yorker (and I mean city not state) to
> understand what happened. NYC is not a country market. WACBS
> FM earned 34 million dollars last year. that made it the 9th
> highest grossing station in this market. The station did
> very well, not just in audience figures. This was a
> corperate move by peopole who don't understand NY and I
> doubt this format makes it to the end of the year. This was
> a short sighted move. The fact that a page on a relatively
> obscure radio board has received 55,000 hits since Friday
> night and there are demands from hundreds of people (I
> know, I'm one of them) who want a password so that they can
> join this fight and the fact that Leslie Moonves was quoted
> today as saying "It seemed like we had shot somebody when we
> changed the WCBS-FM format" says something. I've seen
> mistakes taken back and the fact that no one other than
> Dolenz was actually fired might say something.

"A short sighted move" - couldn't have said it any better. I realize that this is another chapter in "the evolution of radio", and this move at the expense of the CBS-FM audience was downright disrespectful, especially with the venerable WNEW still floundering in the ratings. As someone pointed out over the weekend, had WNEW changed to Jack, it may as well have gone unnoticed.
And I am a New Yorker, and I do realize what an institution CBS-FM has been. I was one of the many who rode around with Dad as he had the station on his radio. When I was younger, of course, I mocked it... But as I grew older, I learned to appreciate it...
As far as the comment on country - as a New Yorker, I realize the difficulties in that format in this market; I only broke out the "2 share" reference someone predicted would be a "guarantee" if some station decided to program that format here.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>
 
> While I agree with McCoy that WCBS-FM (and WJMK for that
> matter) deserved a better sendoff, I still think it is a
> longshot that the oldies format returns to a major FM signal
> anytime soon. The fact that Infinity blew out oldies in two
> major markets at the same time, was basically a death knell
> for the format's future. Yes, one station could flip to
> oldies and get the "plug-in 3 share" McCoy alluded to. But
> then, no station has yet to flip to country to get a
> "plug-in" 2 share that would come with it. I know country is
> a completely different cat than oldies, but when it comes to
> demographics, think about it.
>
> Thanks, Lance, for bringing this to our attention.
>

Infinity has ruined all of the stations that it has acquired. To them - (infinity) it's only about the bottom line. CBS was doing fine before Infinity got in to do their dirty damage. Sure the sales people were having trouble selling it over the past year. Infinity stripped the station of alot of it's traditional programming like do-op, sixties etc. They've become very boring with the same seventies songs over and over - clearly evidence that consultants were used to really destroy the format! The ratings really started to slip when Infinity took them over. I'm in my early 50's, I make decent money and am not dead yet. I guess in NYC anyone over 35 is considered Dead. They can go to hell!! I like the music from the 60's and 70's and to ignore it is insane!
There are oldies and country stations in nearly every market! If you love radio and love format diversity, then unfortunately, the largest market in the country has none of this to offer.

Joe Mccoy did a great job programming the station. I totally agree with what he is saying.

I had the same thing happen to me several years ago when Nassau Broadcasting switched WNJO - a very good oldies station in Trenton, NJ to Rock. Consultants programmed everything in Florida. Even the PD did not know what was going on. They called a meeting, had some dumb ass consultant on the phone from Florida and told everyone that as of midnight the station is switching to classic rock and calling itself "the Hawk" Everyone sat their dumbfounded and over the next day - all lost their jobs!

Murphmac
 
I don't like a lot of things Joe McCoy did at CBS-FM though he was better than the last PD.

He cut the playlist from 3000 songs in 1979 to about 1200 in 2002.
He fired Dick Heatherton, the best jock ever on CBS-FM
I don't know about Max Kinkel's departure, if he was fired.
Was it Joe that axed the Doo Wop Shop
And took Doo Wop and fifties out of the playlist?
And played few pre-1964 songs.
And few that peeked below the top 10?
And kept Don K. Reede overnight instead of during the day?
And played too many songs from the eighties?

There are more, but I can not think of them.

I think the station sounded much better when Bill Brown was the PD.


> Joe Mccoy did a great job programming the station. I totally
> agree with what he is saying.
> <P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
You don't mean Alan Sniffen's board? Obscure? It might be better known than this board.

The fact that a page on a relatively
> obscure radio board has received 55,000 hits since Friday
> night <P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: Joe McCoy speaks

> I don't like a lot of things Joe McCoy did at CBS-FM though
> he was better than the last PD.
>
> He cut the playlist from 3000 songs in 1979 to about 1200 in
> 2002.

Actually the playlist was closer to 2000 songs in 1979. The station was at about 1500 during the day and 2000 on overnights by 1989. In 1993 he actually cut the playlist down to 1000-1200 songs and thinned out the playlist deeply. By 1995 though the playlist was back to about 1500 songs. It was in early 2001 when he took more songs out and reduced the playlist to about 1200 songs again. In 2002 he cut down to even less songs. They were down to about 800 in 2002. In early 2003 they went as far down as 500 songs but by the summer were back to about 800 songs adding alot of 70's and 80's songs they had not played since the 80's. They held at about 800 songs until March of 2003 when they abruptly cut down to 450 to 500 songs which they played until the end.

> He fired Dick Heatherton, the best jock ever on CBS-FM

Am unsure Joe McCoy made this decision.

> I don't know about Max Kinkel's departure, if he was fired.

Actually he was "let go" but not by Joe McCoy on his own. Upper management contributed greatly to this decision. I am unsure of the true reason but have heard a few rumors. Still I would rather not gossip about others. Max Kinkle in my dealings with him have always been very positive. He seems like a true pro. What I do know contributed to the decision was the fact they indeed wanted to bring back Norm N Nite full time with a 6 day work week and Norm N Nite wanted the work. But there was no room for him. In order to bring him back they had to let someone go and Max was the odd man out. Still getting rid of Don K or Bobby Jay would also not be right. They had to consider a bunch of factors and go from there. It would cost less to make this change than to keep things as they were. Also the plugged Norm N Nite into Bobby Jay's 6 shifts with Wednesday off (Bobby Jay worked Mon-Tues-Thurs-Fri-Sat-Sun - Brucie did Wednesday Yearbooks). Bobby Jay moved to Don K Reed's 11 PM - 2 AM M-F shift but for a 6th day he took Max Kinkle's Saturday Night 12-3 AM shift (eventually it was 11 PM-4 AM). Don K Reed was moved to Max Kinkle's old shifts except for his Friday Night/Saturday Morning Shift 2-6 AM. Gary Clark took that one. Don K Reed had Early Tues-Early Fri 2-5:30 AM. For a 5th shift he kept the Doo Wop Shop. This all took place in 1995.


Personally I think they should have just kept Norm N Nite part time or given him full time swing. He ended up retiring to part time 2 years later (the same time Ron Lundy retired). But this decision would come from above Joe.

> Was it Joe that axed the Doo Wop Shop

Actually Joe was forced to by upper management. This happened August 25, 2002.

> And took Doo Wop and fifties out of the playlist?

Actually he took most of the Doo Wop out back in 2001 and even some of it out as far back as 1993 and 1986. Still he held on to the bigger doo wop hits.

He gradually reduced the frequency of playing 50's as far back as the 80's but reduced the ammount of songs in 2001 and 2002. Still when he left the station they were playing about 30 songs from the 50's.

> And played few pre-1964 songs.

He played plenty but reduced them slightly in 1999, a bit more in 2001, and a bit more in 2002. By the end of 2002 they were down to about 50 pre 64 songs. So after 2002 is when that happened.

> And few that peeked below the top 10?

Well where a song peeks does not mean everything. Some former #1 songs do not test well and are therefore not played much on radio while some songs that barely chart build a following and wind up being radio only hits while never charting high (all My Loving/Beatles, Everyday/Buddy holly, Shout/Isley Brothers, Tonight Tonight/Mellow Kings..to name a few low charting songs that did well on radio)

> And kept Don K. Reed overnight instead of during the day?

He was not right for a midday shift. His soft spoken tone worked better at night. Still he should have been at least kept at 11-2 and not 2-530. Even when Norm N Nite did retire Don K should have been reinstated to late nights.


> And played too many songs from the eighties?

Lets see...they may have played too many songs in the rotation but certainly did not play them often. In the 80's besides currents they played one 80's song every 90 minutes on the average. Not exactly alot.

In the early 90's they went up to one an hour during the day and 2 or 3 an hour on overnights. In 1993 they cut to one 80's every 3 hours during the day and one every other hour at night. By 1995 they were up to one every 90 minutes during the day and one an hour at night. By 1999 they were playing one an hour. In 2001 they were playing 2 80's an hour day and night. They kept at this ammount until March 2004 where they reduced 80's to one every 3 hours. By 2005 they pretty much only played a few a day at most.

> I think the station sounded much better when Bill Brown was
> the PD.

Could be

Actually Joe took songs like Again/Concords, Shaboom/Crew Cuts, Wizard Of Love/Lydels out in 1985. It was Bill Brown in the mid 70's that took most of the Johnny mathis, Frank Sinatra, Pat Boone songs, and Our Winter Love/Bill Purcell out of the regular format.

>
 
Re: Joe McCoy speaks

Thank you, your reply was very informative to me.


> > I don't like a lot of things Joe McCoy did at CBS-FM
> though
> > he was better than the last PD.
> >
> > He cut the playlist from 3000 songs in 1979 to about 1200
> in
> > 2002.
>
> Actually the playlist was closer to 2000 songs in 1979. The
> station was at about 1500 during the day and 2000 on
> overnights by 1989. In 1993 he actually cut the playlist
> down to 1000-1200 songs and thinned out the playlist deeply.
> By 1995 though the playlist was back to about 1500 songs. It
> was in early 2001 when he took more songs out and reduced
> the playlist to about 1200 songs again. In 2002 he cut down
> to even less songs. They were down to about 800 in 2002. In
> early 2003 they went as far down as 500 songs but by the
> summer were back to about 800 songs adding alot of 70's and
> 80's songs they had not played since the 80's. They held at
> about 800 songs until March of 2003 when they abruptly cut
> down to 450 to 500 songs which they played until the end.
>
> > He fired Dick Heatherton, the best jock ever on CBS-FM
>
> Am unsure Joe McCoy made this decision.
>
> > I don't know about Max Kinkel's departure, if he was
> fired.
>
> Actually he was "let go" but not by Joe McCoy on his own.
> Upper management contributed greatly to this decision. I am
> unsure of the true reason but have heard a few rumors. Still
> I would rather not gossip about others. Max Kinkle in my
> dealings with him have always been very positive. He seems
> like a true pro. What I do know contributed to the decision
> was the fact they indeed wanted to bring back Norm N Nite
> full time with a 6 day work week and Norm N Nite wanted the
> work. But there was no room for him. In order to bring him
> back they had to let someone go and Max was the odd man out.
> Still getting rid of Don K or Bobby Jay would also not be
> right. They had to consider a bunch of factors and go from
> there. It would cost less to make this change than to keep
> things as they were. Also the plugged Norm N Nite into Bobby
> Jay's 6 shifts with Wednesday off (Bobby Jay worked
> Mon-Tues-Thurs-Fri-Sat-Sun - Brucie did Wednesday
> Yearbooks). Bobby Jay moved to Don K Reed's 11 PM - 2 AM M-F
> shift but for a 6th day he took Max Kinkle's Saturday Night
> 12-3 AM shift (eventually it was 11 PM-4 AM). Don K Reed was
> moved to Max Kinkle's old shifts except for his Friday
> Night/Saturday Morning Shift 2-6 AM. Gary Clark took that
> one. Don K Reed had Early Tues-Early Fri 2-5:30 AM. For a
> 5th shift he kept the Doo Wop Shop. This all took place in
> 1995.
>
>
> Personally I think they should have just kept Norm N Nite
> part time or given him full time swing. He ended up retiring
> to part time 2 years later (the same time Ron Lundy
> retired). But this decision would come from above Joe.
>
> > Was it Joe that axed the Doo Wop Shop
>
> Actually Joe was forced to by upper management. This
> happened August 25, 2002.
>
> > And took Doo Wop and fifties out of the playlist?
>
> Actually he took most of the Doo Wop out back in 2001 and
> even some of it out as far back as 1993 and 1986. Still he
> held on to the bigger doo wop hits.
>
> He gradually reduced the frequency of playing 50's as far
> back as the 80's but reduced the ammount of songs in 2001
> and 2002. Still when he left the station they were playing
> about 30 songs from the 50's.
>
> > And played few pre-1964 songs.
>
> He played plenty but reduced them slightly in 1999, a bit
> more in 2001, and a bit more in 2002. By the end of 2002
> they were down to about 50 pre 64 songs. So after 2002 is
> when that happened.
>
> > And few that peeked below the top 10?
>
> Well where a song peeks does not mean everything. Some
> former #1 songs do not test well and are therefore not
> played much on radio while some songs that barely chart
> build a following and wind up being radio only hits while
> never charting high (all My Loving/Beatles, Everyday/Buddy
> holly, Shout/Isley Brothers, Tonight Tonight/Mellow
> Kings..to name a few low charting songs that did well on
> radio)
>
> > And kept Don K. Reed overnight instead of during the day?
>
> He was not right for a midday shift. His soft spoken tone
> worked better at night. Still he should have been at least
> kept at 11-2 and not 2-530. Even when Norm N Nite did retire
> Don K should have been reinstated to late nights.
>
>
> > And played too many songs from the eighties?
>
> Lets see...they may have played too many songs in the
> rotation but certainly did not play them often. In the 80's
> besides currents they played one 80's song every 90 minutes
> on the average. Not exactly alot.
>
> In the early 90's they went up to one an hour during the day
> and 2 or 3 an hour on overnights. In 1993 they cut to one
> 80's every 3 hours during the day and one every other hour
> at night. By 1995 they were up to one every 90 minutes
> during the day and one an hour at night. By 1999 they were
> playing one an hour. In 2001 they were playing 2 80's an
> hour day and night. They kept at this ammount until March
> 2004 where they reduced 80's to one every 3 hours. By 2005
> they pretty much only played a few a day at most.
>
> > I think the station sounded much better when Bill Brown
> was
> > the PD.
>
> Could be
>
> Actually Joe took songs like Again/Concords, Shaboom/Crew
> Cuts, Wizard Of Love/Lydels out in 1985. It was Bill Brown
> in the mid 70's that took most of the Johnny mathis, Frank
> Sinatra, Pat Boone songs, and Our Winter Love/Bill Purcell
> out of the regular format.
>
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
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