RDS Versus HD Radio/IBOC

[700WLW]

"Radio Data System"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System

I have a 2005 Toyota Matrix, and reading the owner's manual, noticed that my car comes with an optional RDS-enabled radio. RDS is FM-enabled and has a "text" button to display text information, a "traffic" button for traffic announcements (TA), and a "type" button for rock, easy listening, classical music/jazz, R&B, information, religion, misc, and alert.

1) Looks like this is more popular in Europe, but is this being used much in the US, by FM stations ?

2) Are supposed improvements in audio quality and extra HD channels the main difference between
HD Radio/IBOC and RDS ?

3) Is RDS an open-system, without expensive up-front and on-going fees, as with HD Radio/IBOC ?

 

[700WLW]

"How is my radio able to display the station's call letters?"

"In the early 1980s, the European Broadcasting Union changed it to the Radio Data System (RDS). The U.S. National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) adopted a standard for it in 1993. British Broadcasting System (BBC) is also a user of the system... The Radio Data System (RDS) is available in many U.S. cities."

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question323.htm

What - the NAB already adopted a standard for RDS ! What is the point, and all the fuss, in HD Radio/IBOC ?

 

[Chuck]

I've noticed that a lot of people seem to think RDS is HD Radio. I've had several people tell me how cool it is to have the song title information, or at least the station call sign display on their car radio. While I don't deny that it is cool, it has little to do with HD It is very unlikely that any of the people who have told me this actually have a HD radio in their car. On the other hand, lots of existing radios can decode RDS. Of course, HD can display text information too.

The truth is RDS has existed for quite some time. RDS encoders are inexpensive for a station to purchase. You can get a basic one from Inovonics for well under $400. There are some "do it yourself" versions available on the Internet for as little as $50 or so. There is nothing hard, mysterious or proprietary about it. A simple version, which just displays a station call sign or slogan takes about 15 minutes to install. An RDS encoder which displays song information is a bit more complicated, since you have to configure your automation or playback computers to feed the necessary data to the RDS encoder. If the transmitter is nearby, it can use a local area computer network connection. If the transmitter is some distance away, then the data has to go via your STL system, which is a lot bigger deal. Most older STL’s are analog only. When radio stations started gearing up for IBOC, they usually replace their STL system with a digital version, which can also support the data stream for RDS (and lots of other things too). That's probably why RDS is finally becoming noticable

 

[700WLW]

From reading my owner's manual, it looks like, RDS has most of the capabilities of HD Radio, unless I am missing something - traffic announcements, text messaging, and to be able to search for specific types of stations (e.g., rock).

 

[hipporadio]

From reading my owner's manual, it looks like, RDS has most of the capabilities of HD Radio, unless I am missing something - traffic announcements, text messaging, and to be able to search for specific types of stations (e.g., rock).

Many newer radios such as the VERY NICE Sangean WR-2 (which incorporates the once-exclusive "C Crane Radio" reception chips) features extended RDS capabilities. Dedicated buttons on the front panel allow immediate access to traffic and weather info, alternate station display and switching ("For Oldies - try Cool 95"), and time set. The radio displays (and toggles) call letters, format, station solgan, and title/artist info in "basic mode".

RDS was not a big deal at first, but it's "growing up"... And NO - It has NOTHING to do with HD Radio. It's a low-injection analog subcarrier at 57kHz (just above the FM stereo "difference audio") which carries low-bitrate digital data receivable by RDS-equipped radios.

RDS coverage nearly mimics that of “FM stereo”... Interesting when attempting to project the potential coverage of heartier FMeXtra digital streams in the same SCA territory at much higher injection levels. It could be fairly assumed that if RDS service is available at your listening location—so would a future FMeXtra digital transmission.

 

[700WLW]

I got the impression, they were not the same, but with all these capabilities, why the investment in HD Radio ? Also, I would assume, that RDS had to be FCC approved ?

 

[700WLW]

From reading my owner's manual, it looks like, RDS has most of the capabilities of HD Radio, unless I am missing something - traffic announcements, text messaging, and to be able to search for specific types of stations (e.g., rock).

Many newer radios such as the VERY NICE Sangean WR-2 (which incorporates the once-exclusive "C Crane Radio" reception chips) features extended RDS capabilities. Dedicated buttons on the front panel allow immediate access to traffic and weather info, alternate station display and switching ("For Oldies - try Cool 95"), and time set. The radio displays (and toggles) call letters, format, station solgan, and title/artist info in "basic mode".

RDS was not a big deal at first, but it's "growing up"... And NO - It has NOTHING to do with HD Radio. It's a low-injection analog subcarrier at 57kHz (just above the FM stereo "difference audio") which carries low-bitrate digital data receivable by RDS-equipped radios.

RDS coverage nearly mimics that of “FM stereo”... Interesting when attempting to project the potential coverage of heartier FMeXtra digital streams in the same SCA territory at much higher injection levels. It could be fairly assumed that if RDS service is available at your listening location—so would a future FMeXtra digital transmission.

"Kensington® Unveils the World's First RDS FM Transmitter for iPod®"

"According to Kensington's Sena, "RDS is now available in most vehicle models offered by leading US and foreign automakers. Our research indicates that over 80% of all new cars being sold in the US include RDS enabled stereos. RDS is a hugely popular feature and is quickly becoming mainstream. The new Kensington RDS FM Transmitter is the first to allow iPod consumers to take advantage of this exciting car stereo technology."

http://www.cardcam.com/html/11431.html

How will HD Radio/IBOC compete with RDS - both of these, are coming out of the NAB, correct ? Is the NAB just hoping, that ignorant consumers, such as myself, won't figure this out ?

 

[EasyPeazy]

From reading my owner's manual, it looks like, RDS has most of the capabilities of HD Radio, unless I am missing something - traffic announcements, text messaging, and to be able to search for specific types of stations (e.g., rock).

Yes, RDS can do all of that and RDS is pretty cool but RDS can't deliver a 2nd audio stream the way HD can on FMs.

 

[700WLW]

From reading my owner's manual, it looks like, RDS has most of the capabilities of HD Radio, unless I am missing something - traffic announcements, text messaging, and to be able to search for specific types of stations (e.g., rock).

Yes, RDS can do all of that and RDS is pretty cool but RDS can't deliver a 2nd audio stream the way HD can on FMs.

Thanks. Seems, hardly worth a $500,000,000 ad campaign for HD Radio, just for extra low-bitrate channels, that won't even be a programming priority. I'de like to see, HD Radio get standard, or even optional in-dash (outside of BMW), when free RDS is standard in-dash, along with optional Satellite Radio and new Sync-type products. Interesting, dirty-little-secret !

 

[700WLW]

"What is RDS ?"

"Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver... Many of the Hi-Fi home tuners or receivers, apart from the usual RDS features (PI, PS, TP,TA, AF), implement also some of the newer features such as Programme Type-PTY, Radiotext-RT and Clock-Time, displaying the time/date... RDS is absolutely future proof and will not be replaced by DAB, at least until such time as when FM broadcasting ceases to exist and this, for sure, is not going to happen within the next 10 years, in spite of the breathtaking developments of the new era of digital broadcasting."

http://www.rds.org.uk/rds98/whatisrds.htm

 

[EasyPeazy]

Thanks. Seems, hardly worth a $500,000,000 ad campaign for HD Radio, just for extra low-bitrate channels, that won't even be a programming priority. I'de like to see, HD Radio get standard, or even optional in-dash (outside of BMW), when free RDS is standard in-dash, along with optional Satellite Radio and new Sync-type products. Interesting, dirty-little-secret !

Ya know, that's what I thought too initially. Then I actually heard a few HD2 channels. I'm amazed that they are able to get the fidelity they do out of 48K streams, but they are really very impressive - much more so than satellite radio.

I like it.

I hate to tell you this, but you haven't stumbled onto anything new in RDS. It's been around for a really long time now - a dozen years at least.

In most cases, it really doesn't do much to enhance the listening experience. Some stations have theirs set up to display artist and title information but many do not.

And of course, HD can display station name, artist and title info just like RDS. HD can do it on AM too though, and RDS can not do that.

 

[Chuck]

Like FMExtra, there isn't much to not like about RDS. It is a simple, clean, and understandable technology that hurts nobody but helps many.

 

[700WLW]

Thanks. Seems, hardly worth a $500,000,000 ad campaign for HD Radio, just for extra low-bitrate channels, that won't even be a programming priority. I'de like to see, HD Radio get standard, or even optional in-dash (outside of BMW), when free RDS is standard in-dash, along with optional Satellite Radio and new Sync-type products. Interesting, dirty-little-secret !

Ya know, that's what I thought too initially. Then I actually heard a few HD2 channels. I'm amazed that they are able to get the fidelity they do out of 48K streams, but they are really very impressive - much more so than satellite radio.

I like it.

I hate to tell you this, but you haven't stumbled onto anything new in RDS. It's been around for a really long time now - a dozen years at least.

In most cases, it really doesn't do much to enhance the listening experience. Some stations have theirs set up to display artist and title information but many do not.

And of course, HD can display station name, artist and title info just like RDS. HD can do it on AM too though, and RDS can not do that.

Yea, I just read that RDS has been around for a number of years (I'm not in the broadcast business) - surprising, that it hasn't caught on sooner, so that doesn't seem to bode-well for HD Radio (since, they are so similar). I just don't get this whole HD Radio thing - just a total waste, for a few more side-channels, especially when, reception is so problematic, and hearing, that the programming on the HD channels are not much better, than the main analog signals. I just read about RDS tonight, in my owner's manual, and it sounded almost exactly like HD Radio - sounded pretty cool. Looks like, RDS is going into 80% of new automobiles, as standard equipment, I believe - no room for HD Radio, as an expensive option.

 

[EasyPeazy]

Yea, I just read that RDS has been around for a number of years (I'm not in the broadcast business) - surprising, that it hasn't caught on sooner, so that doesn't seem to bode-well for HD Radio (since, they are so similar). I just don't get this whole HD Radio thing - just a total waste, for a few more side-channels, especially when, reception is so problematic, and hearing, that the programming on the HD channels are not much better, than the main analog signals. I just read about RDS tonight, in my owner's manual, and it sounded almost exactly like HD Radio - sounded pretty cool. Looks like, RDS is going into 80% of new automobiles, as standard equipment, I believe - no room for HD Radio, as an expensive option.

For me, the point of HD Radio is that the programming is different on the HD2 channels. There isn't an all 90s channel on regular AM or FM but we have one here on an HD2 channel. The early 90s were my late high school and college days. I like it and I've heard songs I haven't heard or thought about in years.

I can see why most companies wouldn't want to devote an entire FM channel to something like the 90s station because the audience for it is probably not large enough to justify it. I remember a few years ago that 80s stations were all the rage and drew an audience but they didn't generate a large enough audience to justify their existence. The usual suspects like hip-hop and country ended up replacing them. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few 80s formats on HD. I wish there was one here.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Yea, I just read that RDS has been around for a number of years (I'm not in the broadcast business) - surprising, that it hasn't caught on sooner, so that doesn't seem to bode-well for HD Radio (since, they are so similar). I just don't get this whole HD Radio thing - just a total waste, for a few more side-channels, especially when, reception is so problematic, and hearing, that the programming on the HD channels are not much better, than the main analog signals. I just read about RDS tonight, in my owner's manual, and it sounded almost exactly like HD Radio - sounded pretty cool. Looks like, RDS is going into 80% of new automobiles, as standard equipment, I believe - no room for HD Radio, as an expensive option.

For me, the point of HD Radio is that the programming is different on the HD2 channels. There isn't an all 90s channel on regular AM or FM but we have one here on an HD2 channel. The early 90s were my late high school and college days. I like it and I've heard songs I haven't heard or thought about in years.

I can see why most companies wouldn't want to devote an entire FM channel to something like the 90s station because the audience for it is probably not large enough to justify it. I remember a few years ago that 80s stations were all the rage and drew an audience but they didn't generate a large enough audience to justify their existence. The usual suspects like hip-hop and country ended up replacing them. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few 80s formats on HD. I wish there was one here.

Good news, THERE IS!
Tuner 2 uses the same HD codec, and has the same fidelity as HD Radio, and FMeXtra.
Try here:
http://www.tuner2.com/
http://music.aol.com/radioguide/bb
http://www.shoutcast.com/
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?page=Y
www.pandora.com
http://www.clearchannelmusic.com/formatlab/
http://www.mikesradioworld.com/
and many others.

 

[700WLW]

For me, the point of HD Radio is that the programming is different on the HD2 channels. There isn't an all 90s channel on regular AM or FM but we have one here on an HD2 channel. The early 90s were my late high school and college days. I like it and I've heard songs I haven't heard or thought about in years.

I am outside of Wash., D.C. and we have at least three Classic-Rock stations (more than enough), and last year, while listening to nighttime WABC AM, found out that they are running Saturday Night Oldies again, after so many years (they even have clips from past DJs, interviews, and supporting blogs on their website) - you see, no need for expensive HD radios, with low-bitrate HD channels that have problematic reception, and that require elaborate antenna setups.

 

[Mike Walker]

Nearly every FM station around here uses RDS for something (some broadcast song title/artist information, some the name of the program, some just the station's call letters and slogan). But it's not either/or. The meta-data info that allows stations to broadcast this information on RDS also allows it to be broadcast on HD (and vice versa). I'm surprised some here just "discovered" RDS...the technology is about a decade and a half old. I've owned several radios through the years with RDS, including an older Onkyo home theater receiver, and my Sangean ATS-909.

The "purpose" of HD has nothing to do with the broadcast of text info. It's about improved sound, resistance to multipath, and MORE VARIETY OF PROGRAMMING free of charge (once the radio is purchased it costs listeners NOTHING else...unlike satellite).

 

[700WLW]

The "purpose" of HD has nothing to do with the broadcast of text info. It's about improved sound, resistance to multipath, and MORE VARIETY OF PROGRAMMING free of charge (once the radio is purchased it costs listeners NOTHING else...unlike satellite).

Yes, HD Radio has a lot to do with text messaging/traffic alerts, just as with, RDS:

"HD Radio Texting"

"One of the most exciting things about HD Radio– besides the fact that it just sounds so darn good – is the fact that it makes it possible for stations to broadcast text messages. HD Radio's text messages can be as simple as the name of a song and the artist or weather information. HD Radio stations could also broadcast commercials or important news as text messages. Some may elect to provide traffic alerts. either as text messages or as digital information -- free or for a monthly fee."

http://www.hd-radio-home.com/hd-radio-texting.html

Funny, that you didn't know about this ! :-\ The HD Radio Cartel is touting these capabilities, as something new, when RDS does the same thing, and has been around for many years - hmmm... deceptive advertising. This supposed improved sound quality is something no one cares about (remember, the failed AM Stereo of the 1980s), but one gets digital artifacts, with the low-bitrate HD channels. And, with RDS becoming standard in-dash, no need to purchase expensive HD radios, with problematic reception, requiring elaborate antenna setups - no wonder automakers, besides BMW, are not interested in HD Radio, as an expensive option, and certainly not as standard equipment. And, with consolidation/job cutbacks, at Clear Channel and the-likes, programming the HD channels, with "exciting new programming", will not be a priority - if the programming on the HD channels was so great, then why not put them on the main analog channel - the dial is already jammed with stations, with far too many choices. At least, with Satellite Radio, one gets unrestricted, quality programming, with far more channels, unlike HD Radio. ! HD Radio is a farce !

 

[EasyPeazy]

Good news, THERE IS!
Tuner 2 uses the same HD codec, and has the same fidelity as HD Radio, and FMeXtra.
Try here:
http://www.tuner2.com/
http://music.aol.com/radioguide/bb
http://www.shoutcast.com/
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?page=Y
www.pandora.com
http://www.clearchannelmusic.com/formatlab/
http://www.mikesradioworld.com/
and many others.

So am I supposed to record these feeds on my PC then burn them to a CD to use in my car?

 

[RadioStarOne]

I don't want to open a can of worms for you but have you ever heard of Wi-fi or the soon to be available in most major cities around the world Wi-max? But for the time being I guess the way to enjoy these many audio sources is to burn them to cds to play in your car. Or get Sirius or XM Satellite radio.