RE:Atlanta Radio Contributed and Put Many Alternative Rock Groups on the Map!

[awp69]

If you are in the Upstate of South Carolina, why are you even concerned with the Atlanta market?  I am just curious.  Is there nothing to do in Greenville?

A little harsh there are we? I'm also from Greenville, but lived in Atlanta on and off for many years so why is it so bad for someone two hours away not to at least have an interest in what's going on in Atlanta?

I mentioned this in the other Alt/AAA thread, but I agree with carolinaradio in that Cox has been using translators in other markets to bring the format to life so don't see why it's bad to mention that as a possibility for Atlanta.

Since I've gone back and forth between Atlanta and the Upstate of South Carolina over the past 20 years, I kind of am saddened by the demise of Alternative in Atlanta. And after years of not having an Alt station in Greenville, I'm glad Cox used some smarts to start the format on a translator.

Hope someone can make Alternative viable in Atlanta again whether on a commercial signal or a translator.

 

[atlantaboy]

WTEM- Washington is 5th in billing, 20th in rating
WSCR-Chicago is 11th in billing, 17th in rating
WEEI- Boston is 3rd in billing, 13th in rating (usually 8th when the Saux are on)
KRLD and WQXI also bill well above their shares.

And KROQ (Alternative) is 3rd in billing, 14th in rating

What are the odds that this discrepency only occurs in Los Angeles?

 

[chrocket87]

Got any other station numbers to back up your side? Just saying because it happens in LA, it must happen other places is just an assumption. And we all know about assuming things. Unless you can provide facts to back it up, one can only conclude that KROQs billing is due to a larger than life morning show and heritage, meanings advertisers have long developed relationships with listeners, and that there is no proof that any other Alternative station can outbill it's share.

 

[TheBigA]

one can only conclude that KROQs billing is due to a larger than life morning show and heritage, meanings advertisers have long developed relationships with listeners, and that there is no proof that any other Alternative station can outbill it's share.

When you read about KROQ's morning show, it's obvious that the music they play is secondary to the show itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_and_Bean

 

[chrocket87]

Considering morning drive is the daypart which brings in the most money in radio, a strong morning show results in great revenue for the station even if the other dayparts are weak. So, yes, it does make sense. And the data I have can be found using a simple Google search and through other posters on these boards. But, wait, you want everyone else to do the research to prove your unfounded claims. That makes perfect sense. :

 

[carolinaradio]

BigA has posted here for years and I have always found his opinions and information regarding the business side of radio very insightful and logical. I've never thought he sounded biased towards CBS, and still don't.

Facts are facts. There are plenty of stations where the morning show is very popular on a low rated station (eg, TRG on 100.5), and probably boosts their revenue.

 

[uncamark]

Facts are facts. There are plenty of stations where the morning show is very popular on a low rated station (eg, TRG on 100.5), and probably boosts their revenue.

In fact, I will say that most of the stations in the modern rock format are successful billers and ratings-getters ONLY because of a strong morning drive show. In Chicago, Q101 eventually fell apart after Mancow Muller left the station (and I am no fan of him), proving that he was the main reason the station remained modern for two decades (and I realize that they were in the format for several years before and after his time on the station).

 

[atlantaboy]

Considering morning drive is the daypart which brings in the most money in radio, a strong morning show results in great revenue for the station even if the other dayparts are weak. So, yes, it does make sense.

Sure, and Z100 is a high biller only becuase of the Elvis Duran show... :

The KROQ morning show has Alternative music interspersed throughout it - if people didn't like Alternative music, they would change the station - and there is absolutely no evidence that KROQ bills high solely because of the morning show - you could make a similar claim about half the pop stations in the country

The Big A spent pages and pages arguing that Alternative and AAA do not bill higher than their share, and do not appeal to a wealthy demographic

That statement is false

WRFF bills high - so does KFOG, so does WBOS, so does The Buzz/Houston - and those are just four articles I found, not including KROQ, which also obviously bills a lot higher than its share

 

[atlantaboy]

Facts are facts. There are plenty of stations where the morning show is very popular on a low rated station (eg, TRG on 100.5), and probably boosts their revenue.

In fact, I will say that most of the stations in the modern rock format are successful billers

Hmmm...

First people spend pages and pages arguing that Alternative/AAA stations aren't succesful billers

Now we have people admitting that Alternative stations are successful billers - but now it's only because all of them have strong morning shows :

 

[TheBigA]

there is absolutely no evidence that KROQ bills high solely because of the morning show

It's the #4 morning show in LA. According to BIA, the morning show by itself brings in more than 60% of the station's revenues.

But none of this matters. What matters is how Dave billed in Atlanta. And the answer is: Not enough to save it.

 

[chrocket87]

Considering morning drive is the daypart which brings in the most money in radio, a strong morning show results in great revenue for the station even if the other dayparts are weak. So, yes, it does make sense.

Sure, and Z100 is a high biller only becuase of the Elvis Duran show... :

Given the fact Z100s other dayparts get great ratings, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

WRFF bills high - so does KFOG, so does WBOS, so does The Buzz/Houston - and those are just four articles I found, not including KROQ, which also obviously bills a lot higher than its share

What proof do you have of WRFF or KTBZ's billings? Any numbers? Ranks? Or just consultants saying that they (also their client stations) are the highest billers in their markets, like your article about KFOG and WBOS did with no numbers of any kind to back them up? Hey, Vanderbilt finished is one of the highest ranked football programs in the country, (even though they finished the season 23rd)! Oops, I gave a numbered ranking for Vandy, so I must work for CBS :

 

[atlantaboy]

Considering morning drive is the daypart which brings in the most money in radio, a strong morning show results in great revenue for the station even if the other dayparts are weak. So, yes, it does make sense.

Sure, and Z100 is a high biller only becuase of the Elvis Duran show... :

Given the fact Z100s other dayparts get great ratings, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

WRFF bills high - so does KFOG, so does WBOS, so does The Buzz/Houston - and those are just four articles I found, not including KROQ, which also obviously bills a lot higher than its share

What proof do you have of WRFF or KTBZ's billings? Any numbers? Ranks? Or just consultants saying that they (also their client stations) are the highest billers in their markets, like your article about KFOG and WBOS did with no numbers of any kind to back them up? Hey, Vanderbilt finished is one of the highest ranked football programs in the country, (even though they finished the season 23rd)! Oops, I gave a numbered ranking for Vandy, so I must work for CBS :

You're the one that can clear this up - you posted the billing rankings of FIVE FM SPORTS stations - either you made them up, or you have access to billing information for Alternative stations as well

If you're only able to produce billing rankings for Sports stations, and "unable" to produce billing rankings for Alternative/AAA stations, you're either hiding something, or you made up the stats for the Sports stations

 

[atlantaboy]

But none of this matters. What matters is how Dave billed in Atlanta. And the answer is: Not enough to save it.

Again, Dave was flipped because of CBS political agenda, as is evident all over their website - if Dave had been a Clear Channel or Cumulus station, it would still be intact and billing high

And, again, pertaining to the KROQ morning show, Alternative music is mixed in constantly throughout the morning - if Alternative listeners tend to be men and listen frequently during their morning drive, that doesn't change a thing - KROQ still bills much higher than its share as a result of attracting a wealthy demographic

If people didn't like Alternative music, they wouldn't listen to the KROQ morning show - there are tons of other options in L. A.

 

[carolinaradio]

How does anybody know that Dave FM was billing highly at the time of the flip? ???

CBS has markets where they don't have an all-Sports station on FM. Not rocket science. They went with the format that would bill more. Who would trade in less money for a "political agenda?" It may be a format they like putting on their stations, but I VERY highly doubt they would not have blown up a strong biller. Why is this so hard to understand?

KROQ plays anywhere from around 1-4 songs an hour during the morning show - if people enjoy the talent enough, they'll put up with the music (I know of country listeners that listen to classic rock stations just for JB&B, for example).

Again, back to my main point - if this was such a massive format in Atlanta, Cumulus would have it on one of their translators (instead, they saw more potential in Active rock and a top 20 format), or Clear Channel would have put it on 105.7/96.7 (the signal EXISTS in downtown, so that should be good enough) or 105.3 - but they haven't, and there's a reason.

 

[atlantaboy]

How does anybody know that Dave FM was billing highly at the time of the flip? ???

CBS has markets where they don't have an all-Sports station on FM. Not rocket science. They went with the format that would bill more. Who would trade in less money for a "political agenda?" It may be a format they like putting on their stations, but I VERY highly doubt they would not have blown up a strong biller. Why is this so hard to understand?

Because, for the hundredth time, Dave had a 2.5 share in October, and The Game has a 0.7 share now - and at the time CBS made their decision, they were assuming that FM Sports would be successful in Atlanta, like it was in Boston and NYC, and obviously it's not

This isn't rocket science, you're right - and it's also not rocket science that there are tons of successful Alternative/AAA stations around the country - pretty big coincidence that Atlanta is the one major market (besides NYC where many people commute by subway/walking) where mysteriously no one wants to listen to Alternative or AAA

Putting Alternative or AAA on a weak signal won't work - you're dealing with a wealthy demographic that can just as well put their MP3 players/Ipods on shuffle, pay for Satellite Radio, etc., and they're not going to sit through music on 98.9 or 105.7 that sounds like it was recorded 25 years ago

 

[TheBigA]

Again, Dave was flipped because of CBS political agenda, as is evident all over their website - if Dave had been a Clear Channel or Cumulus station, it would still be intact and billing high

Once again, Atlanta is the ONLY market where CBS has flipped an FM to sports. CBS didn't do it in Charlotte, Seattle, or Houston. It hasn't done it in LA, NYC, or Chicago. If you actually look at their web site, and go through their stations, there are lots of markets, like San Francisco and Phoenix, where none of their stations are sports. So it's obvious that sports is not a "political agenda," but rather a business decision, made because one format will make more money than another. If alternative was profitable, Cumulus or Clear Channel would have jumped in to fill the void.

By the way, I'd love for you to post billing numbers for WZGC, since you refer to them often.

If people didn't like Alternative music, they wouldn't listen to the KROQ morning show - there are tons of other options in L. A.

Do any of those other morning shows offer Kevin & Bean? No. Kevin & Bean are similar to Howard Stern. Howard was on an alternative rock station in NYC, but he didn't play music, and people listened to the station for Howard, not the music. That's why the morning show is #4 in LA, while the entire station ranks much lower.

 

[danman425]

If Alternative/AAAs have good morning shows, but lag in their dayparts, it's because of their stale playlists. When New Rock 101.9 came back to New York, many were ecstatic, but more complained about them playing the same old songs from the 90s. However, their ratinge rose from about a 0.6 (with the all news format) to a 2.5 in the first 2 rating books. Merlin Media did this without even trying. There is definitely an audience and money in New York for Alternative. Leslie Fram said 101.9 RXP billed fine before the format flip. However, there is a rumor that cumulus might launch an alt format on 94.7 in New York, they already applied for the WRXP call letters.

 

[atlantaboy]

Kevin & Bean are similar to Howard Stern. Howard was on an alternative rock station in NYC, but he didn't play music, and people listened to the station for Howard, not the music. That's why the morning show is #4 in LA, while the entire station ranks much lower.

Wow...you have absolutely no proof of what you're saying (not even one bit of evidence) - and your biggest problem is that you think every market is similar to New York, and it's not (coincidentally the exact same mistake CBS made)

BTW how many big morning shows are there in most markets? 4 or 5? Ranking #4 isn't enough to maked you the 3RD BIGGEST BILLING STATION IN THE MARKET

 

[atlantaboy]

If Alternative/AAAs have good morning shows, but lag in their dayparts

They don't - it's just BS these posters are trying to feed you

 

[TheBigA]

Wow...you have absolutely no proof of what you're saying - and your biggest problem is that you think every market is similar to New York, and it's not

Huh? You think every market is like LA. Since KROQ is a hit in LA, it will therefore be a hit in Atlanta. Meanwhile, you have no financial information on Dave. You keep saying it billed great, yet you really don't know. And the fact is that if they were billing great, some other owner would have jumped in when they flipped.

As I've said, Kevin & Bean is a comedy show on a music station. Like most talk shows, they can cram more commercials in an hour. Stern used to run 20 minutes of spots an hour. Music stations generally run 12. So because they have twice the audience than other dayparts, they're able to command a higher spot price, and also run more commercials. That's why KROQ bills so well. However, only three out of the 128 CBS stations are alternative format. So they have discovered the format doesn't consistently bill well in other markets, like Atlanta.