RE: Perspectives and dilemmas

[noyfb]

RE: Perspectives and dilemmas

Been reading the posts with questions like "do managers read this board?" and opinions on what formats work and which ones should be changed. These poor mid level grunts don't have much power at all, even though some want you to think otherwise. CC, Cox and Renda big shots make all of the big decisions and the local managers follow orders. Budgets, who gets hired/fired, and formats are decided in Pittsburgh, Atlanta and San Antonio. Some companies are worse than others. One general manager in Jax can't hire a new dj without getting permission from the home office micromanager. There are PD's under four or five levels of management plus a consultant. If they have an original thought it takes a miracle to get the people above them in the food chain to OK it. Some people claim when Cox decided to switch 96.9 it gave the Jax managers a couple of week's notice. Probably true. The GM's and PD's here read this board and have their own opinions on what works and what they'd like to change, but there isn't one of them who can do much. One GM in Jax took a big chance with a promotion and lost a lot of money. Guess who's on a tight leash and got a stern talking to? Another GM used to actually making big decisions saw what was happening and walked. Our industry is in the hands of about 50 people. Some of them are nothing more than bean counters or lawyers. Others are consultants who base everything on research designed to get diarykeepers to respond in a certain way. The problem is the way we measure listening is seriously flawed. Some industry leaders main qualification is they are sons of the owners. To those of you who post here, no matter how idiotic or brilliant your ideas and views are, you have more passion, creativity and focus on the product than the people running the show.

 

[motherscratcher]

> Been reading the posts with questions like "do managers read
> this board?" and opinions on what formats work and which
> ones should be changed. These poor mid level grunts don't
> have much power at all, even though some want you to think
> otherwise. CC, Cox and Renda big shots make all of the big
> decisions and the local managers follow orders. Budgets, who
> gets hired/fired, and formats are decided in Pittsburgh,
> Atlanta and San Antonio. Some companies are worse than
> others. One general manager in Jax can't hire a new dj
> without getting permission from the home office
> micromanager. There are PD's under four or five levels of
> management plus a consultant. If they have an original
> thought it takes a miracle to get the people above them in
> the food chain to OK it. Some people claim when Cox decided
> to switch 96.9 it gave the Jax managers a couple of week's
> notice. Probably true. The GM's and PD's here read this
> board and have their own opinions on what works and what
> they'd like to change, but there isn't one of them who can
> do much. One GM in Jax took a big chance with a promotion
> and lost a lot of money. Guess who's on a tight leash and
> got a stern talking to? Another GM used to actually making
> big decisions saw what was happening and walked. Our
> industry is in the hands of about 50 people. Some of them
> are nothing more than bean counters or lawyers. Others are
> consultants who base everything on research designed to get
> diarykeepers to respond in a certain way. The problem is the
> way we measure listening is seriously flawed. Some industry
> leaders main qualification is they are sons of the owners.
> To those of you who post here, no matter how idiotic or
> brilliant your ideas and views are, you have more passion,
> creativity and focus on the product than the people running
> the show.
>

It certainly used to be that managers and owners would actually encourage creativity from their programming staff. Now, it seems that all of that has been stifled by those 50 or so people you speak of. They're quick to take the credit for the successes, but are even quicker to blame the hard-working folks that carry out the orders should their plans fail. True, life isn't always fair.

In talking with several folks that I know that have been looking to change jobs in the past year or so, there seems to be a hiring mentality that I find very unsettling. It seems that market managers have to answer to 4 or 5 other people up the food chain about hiring someone, weather it be a PD, a jock or a promotion director. These decisions should be left to the local manager. Afterall, he (or she) is the one that will have to work with them on a day to day basis. In some cases, it has taken months and months just to get a decision. And even after that, it's not uncommon to find out that the one that they ended up hiring was someone that was already in the building. Call it convenience, but it's probably largely to do with the budget (or lack of it).

I really love this business, but what I dislike is someone making decisions for me (or my boss) that will ultimately ruin a successful station (or cluster). Some of the time these high-level decision makers are not only playing in the wrong ballpark, but they're way out of their league as well. As an example, a "corporate consultant" that tells a long-time programmer how their station should sound when their backgound is in research, not programming. Where's the logic there?

Until the rules of consolidation are changed, I don't see how this business will ever get back to it's once creative and original ways.



<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by motherscratcher on 09/20/05 06:12 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[FloridaBear1776]

But if everything changed tomorrow...

Would it be too late already for radio?

Generations and Radio

Baby boomers love radio...

Xers hate radio...

Generation Yers say "Radio? What's radio?"

We've already poisoned two generations against the medium. Generation X soured when the consultants came in and began narrowing the playlists in the 80s, as bankers and the repeal of the anti-trafficking rule encouraged a run up in radio prices, not to mention a tendency to avoid Gen-X rock in favor of classic rock and oldies. Then things got worse in the 90s as consolidation was proposed to bail out all the companies that paid too much for radio stations in the 80s.

Only now is the industry trying (badly) to get the 25-40 year olds who grew up hating radio in the 80s and 90s, and who were mostly ignored by the medium then as it chased the boomers, whom it now discards like a used up rag. Meanwhile, as Radio ignored Gen X, Gen Y is ignoring radio.

 

[knozall]

Consolidation was and is irreversable. Radio moved from being a highly personal medium to a "brand" thanks to RESEARCH. It gave the heads of broadcast groups a scapegoat when revenue didn't meet expectations. The converstaion goes something like this.

VP OF PROGRAMMING:

"The research was wrong. Soccer mom's don't like Herman's Hermits every three hours. I just got an email from a new research company that has a new methodology that's been proven to be on target 60% of the time. And they'll do a custom study for us for half what we have budgeted."

SENIOR VP OF RADIO:

"Do it and don't mentioned it to the cluster manager,pd, or consultant. If this doesn't work, we can lay the blame on them when we have to face the investors next year. By the way my life mate, likes Herman's Hermits, keep them on every three hours."

If you think for one minute that any large radio company in America owns these properties, think again. Most, if not all, have a heavy debt and/or have to answer to stockholders who demand a return for their investment. These people aren't radio people, they're bankers and investors. They understand research because almost every other industry in America and maybe the world uses it. They could care less how the companies do it or how many victims there are. They, by God, want their $.05 earnings per share.

It all about meeting or beating the numbers. If you don't beat them, by God you'd better meet them. And if you don't do either, you'd better beat the market or you're history. They'll bring another punching bag in there who thinks he or she is God's gift to radio.

Terrestrial radio isn't going to disappear, it's share of the market will just continue to shrink. At no time will some white knight ride in and rescue it, because it's lost it's place in the hearts, minds, and lives of anyone between the ages of 12 and 18.

If you're fortunate enought to have worked in radio before 1980, you know I speak the painful truth.

 

[motherscratcher]

Re: But if everything changed tomorrow...

> Would it be too late already for radio?
>
> Generations and Radio
>
> Baby boomers love radio...
>
> Xers hate radio...
>
> Generation Yers say "Radio? What's radio?"
>
> We've already poisoned two generations against the medium.
> Generation X soured when the consultants came in and began
> narrowing the playlists in the 80s, as bankers and the
> repeal of the anti-trafficking rule encouraged a run up in
> radio prices, not to mention a tendency to avoid Gen-X rock
> in favor of classic rock and oldies. Then things got worse
> in the 90s as consolidation was proposed to bail out all the
> companies that paid too much for radio stations in the 80s.
>
>
> Only now is the industry trying (badly) to get the 25-40
> year olds who grew up hating radio in the 80s and 90s, and
> who were mostly ignored by the medium then as it chased the
> boomers, whom it now discards like a used up rag. Meanwhile,
> as Radio ignored Gen X, Gen Y is ignoring radio.
>
A great observation. Most of the creative types in this business would rather end up being a Wal-Mart greeter than have to look at another room full of suits with stacks of research telling them what they need to do.

 

[romer979fm]

Our industry is in the hands of about 50 people.

Now, it seems that all of that has been stifled by those 50
or so people you speak of.


Do you two SERIOUSLY believe 50 people control the industry?
If you were looking at radio from the inside instead of just
peeking thru the fence, you'd know better.
Not saying radio isn't WAY over-controlled...and heavilly influenced
by bean-counters...but...50 suits in charge is crazy.<P ID="signature">______________
you're not a lawyer, are you?</P>

 

[motherscratcher]

> Our industry is in the hands of about 50 people.
>
> Now, it seems that all of that has been stifled by those 50
>
> or so people you speak of.
>
>
> Do you two SERIOUSLY believe 50 people control the
> industry?
> If you were looking at radio from the inside instead of
> just
> peeking thru the fence, you'd know better.
> Not saying radio isn't WAY over-controlled...and heavilly
> influenced
> by bean-counters...but...50 suits in charge is crazy.
>


Think about it....it's probably around 50 (or so) that control the direction of Clear Channel, Cox, Infinity, Citadel, Cumulus and the rest of the publicly traded companies. "Control" meaning having the full authority over decisions that affect the operations and direction of the company and its stations.

If you have ever interviewed for a high-profile job in one of these organizations, you know that the interview process doesn't stop with the market manager. Most of the time it even goes beyond the regional guy.

 

[ricksegers]

There are some GREAT posts on this string. Some of these posts certainly make me feel there is hope for radio. The most truthful comment concerned the flawed methodolgy in measuring audience. There has to be a way to get a more accurate picture of who is really listening and to what. As to how many people control the industry, radio has long been an industry of copycats. If it plays in Peoria it will in Palatka. So yes, there maybe 50-100 people who directly or indirectly control 5000 radio stations and the rest of the companies follow suit and do it because the bigger boys do it. So in a way, those 50-100 do control it. If the right consultant suddenly created an all Sinatra format and sold it to the right company, how long would it be before there was one in every market. Up until several months ago, whoever heard of the Jack format.

 

[mustangrio]

> There are some GREAT posts on this string. Some of these
> posts certainly make me feel there is hope for radio. The
> most truthful comment concerned the flawed methodolgy in
> measuring audience. There has to be a way to get a more
> accurate picture of who is really listening and to what. As
> to how many people control the industry, radio has long been
> an industry of copycats. If it plays in Peoria it will in
> Palatka. So yes, there maybe 50-100 people who directly or
> indirectly control 5000 radio stations and the rest of the
> companies follow suit and do it because the bigger boys do
> it. So in a way, those 50-100 do control it. If the right
> consultant suddenly created an all Sinatra format and sold
> it to the right company, how long would it be before there
> was one in every market. Up until several months ago,
> whoever heard of the Jack format.
>
Ye but am i correct in stating the jack format is flat

 

[tibbs]

Re: But if everything changed tomorrow...

Wait a minute. How did the suits allow anyone creative
to stay in radio this long? That's forbidden, illegal,
wrong. Walmart has better benefits, anyway and the women
are better to look at than the ugly men in radio.

 

[keystonejock]

Where's TR when you need him?

"as bankers and the repeal of the anti-trafficking rule encouraged a run up in radio prices... Then things got worse in the 90s as consolidation was proposed to bail out all the companies that paid too much for radio stations in the 80s."

Whew! Here's someone who was TRULY paying attention. Most folks don't understand how & why we're where we are now, but this is it in a nutshell. Jax does have the notoriety of being the birthplace of consolidation, in the sense that in-house lawyers from Florida's biggest homegrown cluster-monger wrote the enabling legislation and hand-fed it to the local bought-and-paid-for congressman. Sure, BP was just bird-dogging for LM, but somebody had to write the actual words for oligopoly to happen. To undo it, we need the second coming of Teddy Roosevelt--a "Big Stick" to break up our modern-day radio Standard Oils and re-regulate Big Bidness. Sure it can happen--this stuff is cyclical--but we gotta stop voting for the guys who did this. Sorry, I know--they're keeping the gays out of our schools and the guns in our pick-em-ups, but if you want radio back you're gonna have to start voting for Democrats...

"Meanwhile, as Radio ignored Gen X, Gen Y is ignoring radio."

This may be an "Urban Myth." Cume ratings in 12-17/18-34 aren't that different from 5 & 10 years ago--still up in the 90+ percent range. Can we continue to do radio the way we did it 30 years ago and keep 'em around long enough to register TSL/AQH? Of course not. But as the Gen Y programmers replace retiring Boomer programmers--and the few Gen X programmers find real jobs--there's hope.

 

[FloridaBear1776]

Re: Where's TR when you need him?

> Whew! Here's someone who was TRULY paying attention. Most
> folks don't understand how & why we're where we are now, but
> this is it in a nutshell. Jax does have the notoriety of
> being the birthplace of consolidation, in the sense that
> in-house lawyers from Florida's biggest homegrown
> cluster-monger wrote the enabling legislation and hand-fed
> it to the local bought-and-paid-for congressman. Sure, BP
> was just bird-dogging for LM, but somebody had to write the
> actual words for oligopoly to happen.

I believe the "BP" to whom you're referring, sold it, as he does just about every regulatory change he has ever lobbied for, as a way to promote good, clean programming on the airwaves, which usually turns into infomercials when he can't find a way to make "clean" media pay for itself.

 

[Superjax]

Re: Where's TR when you need him?

Read your own time line! Clinton was all for this thing we call "consolodation"! So vote yourself higher taxes and gun control, but Clear Channel ain't going nowhere!

Did you read global warming is coming from the sun getting hotter? True! Mars is also experiencing global warming! Scientists don't know how it's happening! Sure we do; George W. Bush! How does he do it? Haliburton must have helped!

The Soup


"as bankers and the repeal of the anti-trafficking rule Sorry, I
> know--they're keeping the gays out of our schools and the
> guns in our pick-em-ups, but if you want radio back you're
> gonna have to start voting for Democrats...
>
> "Meanwhile, as Radio ignored Gen X, Gen Y is ignoring
> radio."
>
> This may be an "Urban Myth." Cume ratings in 12-17/18-34
> aren't that different from 5 & 10 years ago--still up in the
> 90+ percent range. Can we continue to do radio the way we
> did it 30 years ago and keep 'em around long enough to
> register TSL/AQH? Of course not. But as the Gen Y
> programmers replace retiring Boomer programmers--and the few
> Gen X programmers find real jobs--there's hope.
>

 

[tibbs]

Re: Where's TR when you need him?

I have to agree that the "vote Democrat" comment to
"get radio back" has to be the damned most stupid comment
ever stated on radio-info.com.


Clinton WAS 100% behind the approval of de-reg which
allowed the big fish to become whales and ate up
Main Street radio. CLINTON, was/ is a Democrat
in case you did not know. He's also an actor on
jibjab.com by the way, for those of you with any
sense of humor.

The bright side? These corporations paid us stupid
little and medium (and large) market owners $$$$$$$$$$$
more than we would have ever made running these radio stations.

Hence, Clinton actually tried to help big business get
more of the pie, took "the little man out" and ended
strapping the big guys with so much debt or losing
radio station (by paying crazy multiples) that the
only way to even remotely have a chance to make money is
to offer crappy, remote, automated stations PUTTING
the LITTLE PEOPLE out of work.

What denial based falsehood comeback does anyone have
to these facts? I'll stand behind them as 100% as true.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 09/23/05 04:45 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[keystonejock]

Fight for change or kwitcherbitchin'

You WERE paying attention! A real student of the game. And, yes, the infomercial king was really just a stalking horse for the Texans, as were numerous other "companies" that suddenly emerged as "big group operators" only to disappear in 3 years' time. Gathering up their legal limit of stations only to pass them along to the real owner: Clear Channel. Pretty clever, and very remunerative.

And Clinton was clever, too--stealng GOP positions (welfare reform, free trade, deregulation) to get himself elected--twice! Dems understand, now, that they were used... and won't likely let his wife pull the same stuff. Republican Lite don't work no more (see "John Kerry").

But the positions--deregulation, laissez faire free enterprise and pro-monopoly legislation--are Republican staples dating back to the 19th century--when the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers & Carnegies--the Robber Barons--ruled. The big difference now--they being 100 years smarter--is that today's Robber Barons have managed to distract the average lunk with social smokescreens (abortion, gays, guns, war) while robbing 'em.

Robbery? What robbery? See, that's the problem. Ya gotta connect the dots.

Unless/until you grasp this, and decide to fight it, you'll never get your industry back. As someone above said, CC ain't going away--at least not without a tussle.


> I believe the "BP" to whom you're referring, sold it, as he
> does just about every regulatory change he has ever lobbied
> for, as a way to promote good, clean programming on the
> airwaves, which usually turns into infomercials when he
> can't find a way to make "clean" media pay for itself.
>

 

[Superjax]

Re: Fight for change or kwitcherbitchin'

The Soup will take each bullet point separately. Read on, Read on, READ ON!
>
> And Clinton was clever, too--stealng GOP positions (welfare
> reform, free trade, deregulation) to get himself
> elected--twice! Dems understand, now, that they were used...
> and won't likely let his wife pull the same stuff.
> Republican Lite don't work no more (see "John Kerry").

Are you saying Hanoi John was Republican Lite? You got him confused with John McCain my friend!
>
> But the positions--deregulation, laissez faire free
> enterprise and pro-monopoly legislation--are Republican
> staples dating back to the 19th century--when the
> Vanderbilts, Rockefellers & Carnegies--the Robber
> Barons--ruled.

Liberal definition of Robber Baron- Succesful Capitalist who understands supply and demand!

The big difference now--they being 100 years
> smarter--is that today's Robber Barons have managed to
> distract the average lunk with social smokescreens
> (abortion, gays, guns, war) while robbing 'em.

Pretty clever of those evil free market folks huh?

> Robbery? What robbery? See, that's the problem. Ya gotta
> connect the dots.
>
> Unless/until you grasp this, and decide to fight it, you'll
> never get your industry back. As someone above said, CC
> ain't going away--at least not without a tussle.

I hope CC isn't going away, their stock ROCKS!

> > I believe the "BP" to whom you're referring, sold it, as
> he
> > does just about every regulatory change he has ever
> lobbied
> > for, as a way to promote good, clean programming on the
> > airwaves, which usually turns into infomercials when he
> > can't find a way to make "clean" media pay for itself.

Winston Churchill said "If at 21 you are not a Liberal, you don't have a heart1 If at 40 you are not a Conservative, you don't have a brain!"

That's all the bitchin' the Soup is gonna do!


> >
>

 

[keystonejock]

Happy Soup!

The Soup must be one of the winners. Truthfully, I am, too--consolidation hasn't hurt my career (I also recommend XM stock)--it's just hurt others' careers. About half the employees are gone, now. The entry level is gone, too, by the way. Congratulations, Soup! Let 'em eat cake! And let 'em listen to i-Pods...



> The Soup will take each bullet point separately. Read on,
> Read on, READ ON!
> >
> > And Clinton was clever, too--stealng GOP positions
> (welfare
> > reform, free trade, deregulation) to get himself
> > elected--twice! Dems understand, now, that they were
> used...
> > and won't likely let his wife pull the same stuff.
> > Republican Lite don't work no more (see "John Kerry").
>
> Are you saying Hanoi John was Republican Lite? You got him
> confused with John McCain my friend!
> >
> > But the positions--deregulation, laissez faire free
> > enterprise and pro-monopoly legislation--are Republican
> > staples dating back to the 19th century--when the
> > Vanderbilts, Rockefellers & Carnegies--the Robber
> > Barons--ruled.
>
> Liberal definition of Robber Baron- Succesful Capitalist who
> understands supply and demand!
>
> The big difference now--they being 100 years
> > smarter--is that today's Robber Barons have managed to
> > distract the average lunk with social smokescreens
> > (abortion, gays, guns, war) while robbing 'em.
>
> Pretty clever of those evil free market folks huh?
>
> > Robbery? What robbery? See, that's the problem. Ya gotta
> > connect the dots.
> >
> > Unless/until you grasp this, and decide to fight it,
> you'll
> > never get your industry back. As someone above said, CC
> > ain't going away--at least not without a tussle.
>
> I hope CC isn't going away, their stock ROCKS!
>
> > > I believe the "BP" to whom you're referring, sold it, as
>
> > he
> > > does just about every regulatory change he has ever
> > lobbied
> > > for, as a way to promote good, clean programming on the
> > > airwaves, which usually turns into infomercials when he
> > > can't find a way to make "clean" media pay for itself.
>
> Winston Churchill said "If at 21 you are not a Liberal, you
> don't have a heart1 If at 40 you are not a Conservative,
> you don't have a brain!"
>
> That's all the bitchin' the Soup is gonna do!
>
>
> > >
> >
>

 

[Superjax]

Re: Happy Soup!

Keystone,

Consolodation got out of control. I agree. We went from 7 AMs and FMs nationally to a minimum of that many stations a market. All I am saying is don't knee jerk by putting anti business politicians in charge!

The market will decide and local programming will win out! Save your XM and IPOD guilt trip for another poster. I just think we can get back to point A in a different way!

Have a great first weekend of Autumn!

God Bless and prayers for those in Rita's way!

The Soup




> The Soup must be one of the winners. Truthfully, I am,
> too--consolidation hasn't hurt my career (I also recommend
> XM stock)--it's just hurt others' careers. About half the
> employees are gone, now. The entry level is gone, too, by
> the way. Congratulations, Soup! Let 'em eat cake! And let
> 'em listen to i-Pods...
>
>
>
> > The Soup will take each bullet point separately. Read on,
>
> > Read on, READ ON!
> > >
> > > And Clinton was clever, too--stealng GOP positions
> > (welfare
> > > reform, free trade, deregulation) to get himself
> > > elected--twice! Dems understand, now, that they were
> > used...
> > > and won't likely let his wife pull the same stuff.
> > > Republican Lite don't work no more (see "John Kerry").
> >
> > Are you saying Hanoi John was Republican Lite? You got
> him
> > confused with John McCain my friend!
> > >
> > > But the positions--deregulation, laissez faire free
> > > enterprise and pro-monopoly legislation--are Republican
> > > staples dating back to the 19th century--when the
> > > Vanderbilts, Rockefellers & Carnegies--the Robber
> > > Barons--ruled.
> >
> > Liberal definition of Robber Baron- Succesful Capitalist
> who
> > understands supply and demand!
> >
> > The big difference now--they being 100 years
> > > smarter--is that today's Robber Barons have managed to
> > > distract the average lunk with social smokescreens
> > > (abortion, gays, guns, war) while robbing 'em.
> >
> > Pretty clever of those evil free market folks huh?
> >
> > > Robbery? What robbery? See, that's the problem. Ya gotta
>
> > > connect the dots.
> > >
> > > Unless/until you grasp this, and decide to fight it,
> > you'll
> > > never get your industry back. As someone above said, CC
> > > ain't going away--at least not without a tussle.
> >
> > I hope CC isn't going away, their stock ROCKS!
> >
> > > > I believe the "BP" to whom you're referring, sold it,
> as
> >
> > > he
> > > > does just about every regulatory change he has ever
> > > lobbied
> > > > for, as a way to promote good, clean programming on
> the
> > > > airwaves, which usually turns into infomercials when
> he
> > > > can't find a way to make "clean" media pay for itself.
>
> >
> > Winston Churchill said "If at 21 you are not a Liberal,
> you
> > don't have a heart1 If at 40 you are not a Conservative,
> > you don't have a brain!"
> >
> > That's all the bitchin' the Soup is gonna do!
> >
> >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>