Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

[Kelly]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

I find it interesting how everyone has their own slant on what is defective, and what isn't.

One comment I see over and over again on this board from the detractors of digital modulation of any sort on the Medium Wave broadcast band, is; "If manufacturers just would make better AM radios, then everything would be great!" Well I hate to rain on various parades here, but there is two words that make that wish, only that...a wish, and those words are: terrestrial noise. All of you here are old enough to remember the hay-days of AM when there weren't noisy computer monitors in every home, the new energy saving light bulbs, noisy ECU's in modern cars, etc. It used to only be an issue with an occasional "pole hog" or noisy sodium light, but now the problem is too widespread to correct with receiver quality. Modern electronic conveniences are making AM radio unusable to new consumers, and a gross inconvenience to existing ones.

And really, come on folks..AM is fraught with other issues in common use that makes it unable to compete with modern listening habits such as reduced frequency response, high distortion, poor stereo separation, (in the case of AM Stereo R.I.P),. Kids today have better quality and no noise with their I-pods. If you stuck a music station, (if one still existed), in their ear-buds from even a AM station in the 70's, I doubt you'll find any one of them saying "wow that sounds so much better than my I-pod!" Sometimes our sense of reality is clogged by fond memories of our youth.

So, the question could be framed as: Has terrestrial noise, and lack of improvements in technology made the delivery of radio via amplititude modulation defective?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Mike Walker said:

By your own definition, my HD Radio is neither faulty, nor deficient. Hence: NOT "defective". And it can be demonstrated to not be defective.

I never said anything about YOUR HD radio!
Why do you keep saying that I did?
But I do seriously doubt anyone can get perfect fidelity, and stereo separation from a 12 inch wide tabletop radio with 2 inch speakers.

 

[Tom Wells]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

I find it interesting how everyone has their own slant on what is defective, and what isn't.

One comment I see over and over again on this board from the detractors of digital modulation of any sort on the Medium Wave broadcast band, is; "If manufacturers just would make better AM radios, then everything would be great!" Well I hate to rain on various parades here, but there is two words that make that wish, only that...a wish, and those words are: terrestrial noise. All of you here are old enough to remember the hay-days of AM when there weren't noisy computer monitors in every home, the new energy saving light bulbs, noisy ECU's in modern cars, etc. It used to only be an issue with an occasional "pole hog" or noisy sodium light, but now the problem is too widespread to correct with receiver quality. Modern electronic conveniences are making AM radio unusable to new consumers, and a gross inconvenience to existing ones.

And really, come on folks..AM is fraught with other issues in common use that makes it unable to compete with modern listening habits such as reduced frequency response, high distortion, poor stereo separation, (in the case of AM Stereo R.I.P),. Kids today have better quality and no noise with their I-pods. If you stuck a music station, (if one still existed), in their ear-buds from even a AM station in the 70's, I doubt you'll find any one of them saying "wow that sounds so much better than my I-pod!" Sometimes our sense of reality is clogged by fond memories of our youth.

So, the question could be framed as: Has terrestrial noise, and lack of improvements in technology made the delivery of radio via amplititude modulation defective?

No. Not Defective.

You are correct that the situation is bad. All the mentioned noise hogs are not in compliance with FCC standards, and
citations to manufacturers are in order. So is a wholesale cleanup of the existing problems.

AM analog absolutely sounds better than any ipod. You may not have access to any radio which can deliver it, but
I assure you the fidelity available in AM exceeds even FM when full advantage is made of the medium.

This is not my fond memory. I have access to compare these technologies on a daily basis, and equipment to back the above claims.

I have also had to mitigate RF interference problems.

I won't call HD defective. It's "misguided".

If I could wave a wand, and "fix" the lo-fi AM receivers I would. People will still find their own level of audio satisfaction.
If the music is cool, I can be satisfied by a 24k stream. I prefer better audio.

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

How many times do I have to tell you Supercaster, I DON"T USE THE 2" speakers! Never have, never will. Neither do/will most buyers of this radio, I suspect...early adopters who are interested in getting "into HD" with a radio that has incredible "bang for the buck". I honestly have no freaking idea what the "2 inch speakers" sound like. Want 'em? I'd just about offer to yank 'em out and send them to you in the mail. If someone had removed them on the night I bought the radio, I WOULDN'T KNOW IT!

I know that by repeatedly bringing up the "2 inch speakers", you're implying there's no bass response on the Accurian. Well, attached to headphones or a good stereo system, there certainly is. Bass holds up within 1db tolerances down to 20hz on the analog section, and probably does much better with HD. When I recommend this radio, I am recommending it as a dirt-cheap HD component tuner, ignoring the speakers! I recommend that EVERYONE who buys this radio hook it to ther headphones, or stereo system!

I've said this before, but possibly not often enough. By the way...two inch speakers can sound GREAT...full, warm, and natural. Ever heard a Tivoli PAL? It's SINGLE 2" speaker is good enough to listen to all day!

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Neither do/will most buyers of this radio...

What, statistic do you base that on - prove it ! See, it is Chinese-made RS junk !

 

[Kelly]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

No. Not Defective.

You are correct that the situation is bad. All the mentioned noise hogs are not in compliance with FCC standards, and
citations to manufacturers are in order. So is a wholesale cleanup of the existing problems.
[/quote]

Yeah like that will ever happen.

[/quote]
AM analog absolutely sounds better than any ipod. You may not have access to any radio which can deliver it, but
I assure you the fidelity available in AM exceeds even FM when full advantage is made of the medium.

[/quote]

Now wait a minute.. You're saying that something with a high frequency response of 10kHz on a good day, with IMD products that exceed 40%, and with a noise floor of -30dBm, sounds better than something with 20kHz HFR, IMD of .2%, and a noise floor which exceeds 80dBm, (assuming 96kb)?? You can't be serious?

[/quote]
This is not my fond memory. I have access to compare these technologies on a daily basis, and equipment to back the above claims.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what technologies you speak of, or even how it can disprove known data, but I'd be curious to see the results. So I hereby challenge you to take your Audio Precision, or even an old Potomac measurement system, get access to a AM station after hours, run tones out to 20khz, then check frequency response, distortion, (including THD, and IMD), and noise floor between the AM transmitter/receiver, (with to make it fair, audio processing in place and through a real antenna system), and a I-POD with equivalent content, and forward along the results.

[/quote]
I have also had to mitigate RF interference problems.
[/quote]

That's super. With all the noise out there, you should be kept busy.

[/quote]
I won't call HD defective. It's "misguided".
[/quote]

Other than the concerns about side-band interference at night, how else is it "misguided"?

[/quote]
If I could wave a wand, and "fix" the lo-fi AM receivers I would. People will still find their own level of audio satisfaction.
If the music is cool, I can be satisfied by a 24k stream. I prefer better audio.
[/quote]

Cool by your terms? The vote is in, more young people are listening to I-pods than AM radio. My guess is because they think it is cool. And my Son's I-Pod runs files that are no smaller than 96kb, most are 128.

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Dude, you've gotta' quit bashing China. Read a little about radio manufacturing TODAY! Yes, for years "Made in China" meant made cheaply, to poor standards. But in the last decade China has seriously committed to manufacturing QUALITY electronics, particularly small and portable radios. There are now towns in China which do nothing but make these radios. And where Sony used to be the "big dog" of portable shortwave radios, now it's Kaito, Sangean, and Grundig/Eton, all of which sell SUPERB portable radios manufactured in CHINA.

The Tecsun plant in China makes some of the best radios in the world. And they're constantly introducing new models, incorporating improved technology. Sony hasn't introduced a new shortwave radio (for instance) since the mid to late 90s, have they? I know...Sony has a sync detector. All hail! So does Eton (in the E1), and it's made in CHINA. Not only that, according to Passport to World Band Radio, the Eton works better, stays locked on deeper fades, and produces less noise than Sony's. Not Sony's fault. Perhaps if they'd invested some r&d dollars in THIS millennium, they would be able to catch up!

Trash all radios made in China as "junk", and you're really showing how much you know about the state of radio manufacturing TODAY. (Not very much!)

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Dude, you've gotta' quit bashing China. Read a little about radio manufacturing TODAY! Yes, for years "Made in China" meant made cheaply, to poor standards. But in the last decade China has seriously committed to manufacturing QUALITY electronics, particularly small and portable radios. There are now towns in China which do nothing but make these radios. And where Sony used to be the "big dog" of portable shortwave radios, now it's Kaito, Sangean, and Grundig/Eton, all of which sell SUPERB portable radios manufactured in CHINA.

The Tecsun plant in China makes some of the best radios in the world. And they're constantly introducing new models, incorporating improved technology. Sony hasn't introduced a new shortwave radio (for instance) since the mid to late 90s, have they? I know...Sony has a sync detector. All hail! So does Eton (in the E1), and it's made in CHINA. Not only that, according to Passport to World Band Radio, the Eton works better, stays locked on deeper fades, and produces less noise than Sony's. Not Sony's fault. Perhaps if they'd invested some r&d dollars in THIS millennium, they would be able to catch up!

Trash all radios made in China as "junk", and you're really showing how much you know about the state of radio manufacturing TODAY. (Not very much!)

Except for Sonys, the rest of Chinese-made receivers are junk - the Tecsun/Eton is marketing under the Grundig name, hoping customers will think, they are still made in Germany - deceptive advertising. Since the excellent RS DX-440/Sangean 803A and Sony ICF-SW2010, the only quality SW receiver made, has been the Sony 7600GR (the excellent AM tuner in my Sony ICF-S10MK2 attests to that). The Redsun is just a Grundig S350 look-alike - low-grade plastic box, cheap switches, smelly imitation-leather handle; the Grundig S350 also suffers from drifting, lousy tuner with significant tuner-backlash, filters that only muffle the audio, plastic speaker grill and display, low-resolution display, etc. The Sangeans are also junk - just search through rec.radio.shortwave, or better yet, start a new thread, asking what they think about the Sangeans. The Eton E1 has cheap switches, is totally plastic, no internal ferrite-bar antenna, and no Satellite Radio antenna, all for $400 - $500 - that cheap junk, is no where near the quality of the DX-400, or Sony ICF-2010. Heck, the Sony ICF-7600GR is just about, as sensitive as, the Eton E1, and can be had for only $125 (and, it comes with an internal ferrite-bar antenna) - you make the choice !

 

[hipporadio]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

The Tecsun plant in China makes some of the best radios in the world. And they're constantly introducing new models...

Some Tecsun radios DO manage to pull good reviews—but finish the last half of most of those critiques where the reviewer nearly always cautions the buyer about that company’s infamous quality control problems. The “Tecsun syndrome” requires one to “buy three—pick the best one—and hope to return the other two”!

Except for Sonys, the rest of Chinese-made receivers are junk...

No doubt—several are, but many are fine units at a very good price. Consider your selective choice of a used car purchase as a comparative analogy.

...the excellent AM tuner in my Sony ICF-S10MK2 attests to that...

As you know—I share your enthusiasm for that little guy, but I doubt you could have purchased him for a mere ten bucks had he not been assembled in China!

The Sangeans are also junk - just search through rec.radio.shortwave, or better yet, start a new thread, asking what they think about the Sangeans.

‘700... Learn to be very careful when reading un-moderated opinion posts in an enthusiast newsgroup. If the “www” internet can be characterized as the “Wild Wild West”—“rec” could easily stand for “Reckless Endangerment of a Concept”. The folks there are “heavy duty” and VERY narrowly focused. One can never be sure what REALLY motivates some of their criticism. Their problems with Sangean may have little to do with OUR use of, and expectations from, that product line.

I can assure you that my personal experience with that brand easily transcends that of many who “hit and run” on the shortwave newsgroup... Sangean does NOT MAKE JUNK. Search my prior posts here for some very good examples.

BTW—as of 2005, the Sangean 909 was made in Korea—not China. That caused it to be a bit pricey considering its “average” performance, which may contribute to its bane on the newsgroups. RadioLab offers a “hot rod” mod which transforms it into an exceptional portable!

OK... So let’s imagine Tecsun’s entry into the world of HD Radio...

A brand frequently returned for quality control issues [plus] IBOC HD often returned because of buyer dissatisfaction [equals] A nightmare for any consumer electronics retailer... How long could that one last :-\

 

[hipporadio]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

I find it interesting how everyone has their own slant on what is defective, and what isn't.

One comment I see over and over again on this board from the detractors of digital modulation of any sort on the Medium Wave broadcast band, is; "If manufacturers just would make better AM radios, then everything would be great!" Well I hate to rain on various parades here, but there is two words that make that wish, only that...a wish, and those words are: terrestrial noise. All of you here are old enough to remember the hay-days of AM when there weren't noisy computer monitors in every home, the new energy saving light bulbs, noisy ECU's in modern cars, etc. It used to only be an issue with an occasional "pole hog" or noisy sodium light, but now the problem is too widespread to correct with receiver quality. Modern electronic conveniences are making AM radio unusable to new consumers, and a gross inconvenience to existing ones.

And really, come on folks..AM is fraught with other issues in common use that makes it unable to compete with modern listening habits such as reduced frequency response, high distortion, poor stereo separation, (in the case of AM Stereo R.I.P),. Kids today have better quality and no noise with their I-pods. If you stuck a music station, (if one still existed), in their ear-buds from even a AM station in the 70's, I doubt you'll find any one of them saying "wow that sounds so much better than my I-pod!" Sometimes our sense of reality is clogged by fond memories of our youth.

So, the question could be framed as: Has terrestrial noise, and lack of improvements in technology made the delivery of radio via amplititude modulation defective?

Kelly, let me begin my response by saying that I’m NOT an engineer—but I have a great interest and respect for that discipline—and those engaged in it! As an operator, my “contract engineer” frequently told his contemporaries that I was the perfect guy to work for. In 1994, the FCC conducted a “sting” in our market. The inspector visited every station in our market EXCEPT mine (even though his hotel room was within sight of my STL tower and SAT dishes at our offices/studio). I always took technical stuff seriously—provided an exceptional “nature-defying signal” on AM and FM and paid attention to the obligations specified in my license. I gave it my very best!

I had TWO AM stations... Both developed to the MAX... We even hand-built ATUs in nude Kintronics boxes on the floor of our auxiliary studio. We put a folded unipole on one tower for low J-factor (for increased “fidelity” and modulation-density only). On one, we had a Harris “Gates series” 1kw... The other was an MW-1, which we rebuilt lovingly and accomplished exceptional audio from. I was able to monitor both on a Carver TX-11b wideband AM tuner and was impressed—I only wished that our listeners could hear a fraction of our efforts!

To say that AM can NO LONGER deliver acceptable audio quality is a “cop-out”... I fully agree with your reference to the problems created by “RF trash”... Maybe HALF the AMs need to just sign-off and allow predominate stations to offer dependable service at a higher power level—increase power to overcome aquarium-heater interference. That would be a far better option than the current defective and destructive IBOC scenario! EVEN BETTER—move AM digital to a new band, then (in the distant future) reserve the current band for “national service” based on its inherent coverage qualities.

Kelly—obviously you are a “seasoned” guy who can recall awesome AM quality—I can! I’m listening on a $120 Tivoli receiver in a town of 16k (where the prevailing AM Oldies station has installed a Harris DAX-1 “digital-modulated” AM rig) and the resulting demodulated quality is AWESOME—certainly acceptable to us older guys—and possibly others for that matter. I will NOT make the insane mistake of comparing this station’s audio to an iPod—but I WILL say that it is compelling on a decent analog-tuned receiver that is easily (and inexpensively) available at Amazon.com. That’s much more than the AM industry could expect in 1990!

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Dude, you've gotta' quit bashing China. Read a little about radio manufacturing TODAY! Yes, for years "Made in China" meant made cheaply, to poor standards. But in the last decade China has seriously committed to manufacturing QUALITY electronics, particularly small and portable radios. There are now towns in China which do nothing but make these radios. And where Sony used to be the "big dog" of portable shortwave radios, now it's Kaito, Sangean, and Grundig/Eton, all of which sell SUPERB portable radios manufactured in CHINA.

The Tecsun plant in China makes some of the best radios in the world. And they're constantly introducing new models, incorporating improved technology. Sony hasn't introduced a new shortwave radio (for instance) since the mid to late 90s, have they? I know...Sony has a sync detector. All hail! So does Eton (in the E1), and it's made in CHINA. Not only that, according to Passport to World Band Radio, the Eton works better, stays locked on deeper fades, and produces less noise than Sony's. Not Sony's fault. Perhaps if they'd invested some r&d dollars in THIS millennium, they would be able to catch up!

Trash all radios made in China as "junk", and you're really showing how much you know about the state of radio manufacturing TODAY. (Not very much!)

Believe me, I've owned both the DX-440 and the ICF-2010, and could have chucked them out of our bedroom window onto the driveway, and they would have gotten up and walked away - if I had done that with my now-returned S350, it would have shattered and suffered a horrible death. Heck, I used to pick up CB'ers in Texas, from Maryland, in late afternoon, with the ICF-2010 ! Here, I picked the Sangean ATS909, by random, then checked Amazon - take a look at these reviews:

"I have purchased this in the UK and find the radio to be very disappointing. It is reasonably sensitive on am and fm both shortwave and elsewhere. I could notice distortion on fades on the speaker. I also found that the quality for recording was far too bassy even with the tone adjustment to music and the band selection to wide. The quality from line output does not match the sound on the speaker. The switches on the side for tone, stereo to mono are only very thin plastic. The battery cover is small and flimsy as is the stand. Spend your money on a Sony 7600G or 100E. I realise now why people who buy the Roberts equivalent say it is a Sanean in wolf's clothing. I wish I had heeded advice on the web before buying."

"I have been having a blast. I received the radio last night. On time by the way. Right now I'm listening to a station in Nigeria. I don't understand a word of what they're saying, but it's still interesting as hell. I guess I'm just blown away that I can be hearing a station half way across the world. I had just bought a Grundig S350 deluxe. I'm trying both radios side by side and I can't get the same things on the Grundig as on the Sangean. For one thing the Grundig even has a hard time with a local and very powerful A.M. station. (KFI 640, I'm 30 miles from it and it transmits with 50,000 watts.) The Sangean does everything it says it will. I must complain however about the cabinet and aesthetics. This radio brings to mind a Japanese AM transistor radio from 1962. The Sangean's knobs feel as if they're going to break off at your fingertips! When you turn any of the pots, they feel rough. It's just very disappointing after spending $260 including shipping and handling."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu....sort_by=+OverallRating&s=electronics&x=9&y=4

Here's a good one for the S350:

"This is just like the old, old radio's we all threw away when the new "Digital Tuning" came about several Decades ago. Don't waist your money like I did thinking it was a GRUNDIG radio that held up to their name. I have two other Grundig radio's and would highly recommend them. The "AFC" does NOT work very well. The Antenna is so long you would think it would really make a difference NOT !! Grundig is a great name however, this is not your normal quality you EXPECT. DON'T WAIST YOUR MONEY !!"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...ort_by=+OverallRating&s=electronics&x=11&y=16

Hey, I just figured it out - we now live in a throw-away society !

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Interesting how you mention two radios from the 80s...the 2010 and the DX440, and compare them with the S350, which is also a revisit of classic 1970s and 80s multiband portables...certainly not represented by Grundig or anyone else as state of the art.

You're comparing old radios with a replica of old radios, and concluding that new radios are "cheap crap". Really logical thought process, there!

The Eton E5/Grundig G5, or better yet the Eton E1 are state of the art radios made in China that have left anything from Sony (is there another Japanese manufacturer of portables any more?) in the dust. Sony was once a great name in radio innovation. But that stopped nearly a decade ago, and all of their once great radios are being removed from the line model by model. ICFSW2010...history. ICFSW100, HISTORY! ICFSW55 (which I owned and LOVED), HISTORY! ICFSW7600G? Now more than a decade old...and I think I could hold my breath until it disappears from Sony's line without turnin' blue. Sad, but true. Radio innovation now takes place almost exclusively in China (and the US with companies like Cambridge Soundworks, Tivoli, and even Bose). Japan has either stopped r&d on new radios, or is simply recycling old designs.

If this was the year 2000, I would absolutely agree Chinese Radio Products = cheap crap! But it isn't 2000. Al Gore isn't president. And Sony isn't a leader in radios. Hasn't been in a long, l o n g time. Zenith Trans-Oceanics are collectors items...examples of a time when quality MATTERED in radio manufacturing. Soon the Sony ICFSW7600G will be too...a collectors item, and an example of how great Japanese radios once were.

It isn't just radios. In case you haven't noticed, Japanese electronics companies peaked in the late 80s, and have largely been in decline the last couple of years. Just because a product carries a Jananese name like Sony or Panasonic, doesn't mean it was made in Japan. If it's an inexpensive electronic item, the odds are it was made in China. Or Malaysia. Or another Asian country where manufacturing costs are less than in Japan, or the US!

Consumer electronics now come from China. Get used to it!

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Interesting how you mention two radios from the 80s...the 2010 and the DX440, and compare them with the S350, which is also a revisit of classic 1970s and 80s multiband portables...certainly not represented by Grundig or anyone else as state of the art.

You're comparing old radios with a replica of old radios, and concluding that new radios are "cheap crap". Really logical thought process, there!

The Eton E5/Grundig G5, or better yet the Eton E1 are state of the art radios made in China that have left anything from Sony (is there another Japanese manufacturer of portables any more?) in the dust. Sony was once a great name in radio innovation. But that stopped nearly a decade ago, and all of their once great radios are being removed from the line model by model. ICFSW2010...history. ICFSW100, HISTORY! ICFSW55 (which I owned and LOVED), HISTORY! ICFSW7600G? Now more than a decade old...and I think I could hold my breath until it disappears from Sony's line without turnin' blue. Sad, but true. Radio innovation now takes place almost exclusively in China (and the US with companies like Cambridge Soundworks, Tivoli, and even Bose). Japan has either stopped r&d on new radios, or is simply recycling old designs.

If this was the year 2000, I would absolutely agree Chinese Radio Products = cheap crap! But it isn't 2000. Al Gore isn't president. And Sony isn't a leader in radios. Hasn't been in a long, l o n g time. Zenith Trans-Oceanics are collectors items...examples of a time when quality MATTERED in radio manufacturing. Soon the Sony ICFSW7600G will be too...a collectors item, and an example of how great Japanese radios once were.

It isn't just radios. In case you haven't noticed, Japanese electronics companies peaked in the late 80s, and have largely been in decline the last couple of years. Just because a product carries a Jananese name like Sony or Panasonic, doesn't mean it was made in Japan. If it's an inexpensive electronic item, the odds are it was made in China. Or Malaysia. Or another Asian country where manufacturing costs are less than in Japan, or the US!

Consumer electronics now come from China. Get used to it!

Yea, I am comparing receivers, from the 70s/80s, to make the point, that since then, SW receivers are cheap plastic junk. And, let's not forget, that with the $100 single-conversion S350, you get loads of images and birdies and no memory, all encased in a cheap plastic box, to-boot ! Opening up my S350, I was horrified at the cheap electonics and taped-on switches - total garbage ! Grundig sure pulled-a-fast-one on consumers, some no doubt, thinking Grundigs were still quality receivers made in Germany - Tecsun/Eton should be ashamed ! Next time, I would just get a throw-away $65 Degen 1103 - at least, it is dual-conversion, SSB, and with memory - the S350 has none of these !

 

[hipporadio]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Believe me, I've owned both the DX-440 and the ICF-2010, and could have chucked them out of our bedroom window onto the driveway, and they would have gotten up and walked away - if I had done that with my now-returned S350, it would have shattered and suffered a horrible death...

"I have purchased this [THE 350] in the UK and find the radio to be very disappointing...

No doubt... The 350 had its haunts... Brookstone dropped it last year and World Radio Handbook “dogged” it for its drift problem. The Radio Shack DX-440 was a GREAT RADIO—but give it up—it’s over—TWENTY YEARS OLD... Good stuff “disappears” including the legendary McIntosh MR-78... We can cry—but we can’t keep bitching to just pleasure ourselves!

Many once fine general-coverage (SWL) receivers from the likes of Sony seem to be disappearing—most likely because of a lack of consumer demand. GIVE UP SWL... Unless you are a far-right-wing religious Wack-job—it’s OVER! Let’s focus on a manufacturer’s attention to reasonably-priced AM radios with quality that can display current state-of-the-art digitally-modulated high-performance transmitters. Reward companies like Tivoli and Sangean for producing decent quality AM radios—DO IT NOW, or they will soon follow and bury into the history books!

Often—you folks do a lot of bitching—but you rarely put your money where you mouth is... DO IT RIGHT NOW! The AM band as you have formerly known it may be DEPENDING on you... Can you “step up”?

"I have been having a blast. I received the radio last night... I’m listening to a station in Nigeria... For one thing the Grundig even has a hard time with a local and very powerful A.M. station KFI 640...

OH COME ON... Who cares about West Africa of the “left coast” (if you live in Baltimore, Indianapolis, or Charleston)... I’d be FAR MORE concerned with quality reception of a good metro AM station (News/Talk OR music) near you in the same market. I’d demand good transmitted quality (which is already there) and a receiver that wouldn’t “tire me out”.

Can ANY of you folks get this... As the Moody Blues said way back in 1973... “Listen...We Think We Have Found You—Can You Hear Me”?

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Ok, we get it Hippo. You're not a radio hobbyist. Forgive those of us who are, who still think there's something magical about radio programs from the other side of the earth received on an affordable portable.

And there ARE still some great things to listen to on shortwave, though fewer than before. Between RFPI (Radio for Peace International), BBC, WBCQ, CBC, the usually excellent Radio Netherlands, and many others...there's PLENTY of international flavor, entertainment, and information for those with the patience to LISTEN.

If you don't enjoy shortwave, don't listen. But again after the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, shortwave receiver sales spiked, just as they did in the early 90s during the Gulf war, and always do when international tension mounts. Those are the times when the general public takes an interest in shortwave. For radio nerds, that interest never wavers.

As for the S350...yet it's single conversion. But anyone who knows radio "innards" knows that many inexpensive single conversion radios are real HOT RODS when it comes to sensitivity (yes there are image problems, overload issues, and all the rest...I'm not denying that!) But single conversion radios can also often receiver distant signals like a mothertrucker. And ya' know what? My S350 definitely fits that category. Couple it with my Terk AM Advantage, and VROOOOOM, VROOOOOOOM! In the immortal words of Larry the Cable Guy, it can definitely "Get 'er Done!"

I think that's one of the real differences between radio geeks and those who aren't. We radio geeks understand that NO radio is perfect, and learn to not only life with, but actually become enamored of the limitations of various receivers. Got images on the S350? Switch to an E5! Got deep fades that require a sync detector? Switch to an E1 (or 700WLW's fave the 7500G!) Different strokes for DIFFERENT folks? Not on your life! I'll take 'em all (including that damn little Sony 700 loves so much. I've gotta' get me one of those!) ;D

 

[hipporadio]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

OK.. Let’s put this “slug fest” to rest,,, The Tecsun 350 is a “butt”... Asside from that, we are into quality —RADIO... Do you HEAR US? We all want that—right?

ALL endure receivers here need portent a HD “paradigm”... WHAT is you corporate connection,,, WHT is your reward? ... Many lower “dudes” have NO recognition ... Interesting considering... the cover duo two the the BIG Bid-a-the the cool soul locked up the usual “frat—induction!

I couldn’t care less—but I WISK an total guy perspective...THABKS for the memories.! ...his is a difficult arena and that that start a do-a-ling place on the planits.

The first [first] was the addition to the “super Q”—GREAT—thank you all! I hipe you have a cool Hey Years—and celebrate a good holiday!

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Ok, we get it Hippo. You're not a radio hobbyist. Forgive those of us who are, who still think there's something magical about radio programs from the other side of the earth received on an affordable portable.

And there ARE still some great things to listen to on shortwave, though fewer than before. Between RFPI (Radio for Peace International), BBC, WBCQ, CBC, the usually excellent Radio Netherlands, and many others...there's PLENTY of international flavor, entertainment, and information for those with the patience to LISTEN.

If you don't enjoy shortwave, don't listen. But again after the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, shortwave receiver sales spiked, just as they did in the early 90s during the Gulf war, and always do when international tension mounts. Those are the times when the general public takes an interest in shortwave. For radio nerds, that interest never wavers.

As for the S350...yet it's single conversion. But anyone who knows radio "innards" knows that many inexpensive single conversion radios are real HOT RODS when it comes to sensitivity (yes there are image problems, overload issues, and all the rest...I'm not denying that!) But single conversion radios can also often receiver distant signals like a mothertrucker. And ya' know what? My S350 definitely fits that category. Couple it with my Terk AM Advantage, and VROOOOOM, VROOOOOOOM! In the immortal words of Larry the Cable Guy, it can definitely "Get 'er Done!"

I think that's one of the real differences between radio geeks and those who aren't. We radio geeks understand that NO radio is perfect, and learn to not only life with, but actually become enamored of the limitations of various receivers. Got images on the S350? Switch to an E5! Got deep fades that require a sync detector? Switch to an E1 (or 700WLW's fave the 7500G!) Different strokes for DIFFERENT folks? Not on your life! I'll take 'em all (including that damn little Sony 700 loves so much. I've gotta' get me one of those!) ;D

My $10 Sony, digital RS PLL radios, and digital car radio, all get the same stations as your "hot-rod" S350 ! Got images on your S350 - should have read the reviews on eham.net, Amazon, and RadioIntel, first - instead of getting a hundred SW receivers, ad hoc, you could have gotten the excellent $125 Sony ICF-7600GR, instead ! And, in the case of the $150 Eton E5, could have gotten the same receiver, as the $65 Degen 1103 ! You see, if/when I drop my $10 Sony, I won't care, but when you drop that cheap plastic-boxed S350, and watch the case shatter and the switches fly off, you'll be in tears ! VROOOOOM... what a p*ssin' match !

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Dude...most of the reviews at the places you mentioned were POSITIVE! And the S350 has been recommended by THE book on shortwave radios...Passport to World Band Radio since it's introduction.

YES it has limitations. So does every radio you mentioned. Like your 10 dollar Sony. I'd be willing to wager there is no bass below 200hz, so it completely misses the foundation of music. That's a pretty big omission to those of us for whom audio quality is important! Sony's multiband portables, like the otherwise excellent 7600G have LONG sported bass response that fell like a rock below 100hz even through headphones. And since I listen through headphones often, this flat disqualifies them from MY buying list! My Eton E5, Kaito KA1107, Grundig Yacht Boy 400, and Grundig S350 all have excellent sound quality, including extended bass response through headphones.

As for images, EVERY multiband radio has SOME images and/or spurious noises at some frequency (or frequencies) on some bands. it's a matter of the number, and severity. The S350 has more than double-conversion models, of course...but it also has a lot less self-noise than most inexpensive digitally tuned radios. Horses for courses. The S350 isn't my choice for serious dxing. For that I use my Drake SW8 with 200 foot longwire. It IS my choice for program listening, particularly the delightful programs of local musicians on WKBC AM (800khz) in North Wilkesboro NC, and WKSK (580khz) in West Jefferson NC. It pulls 'em both in like a champ, with very "fm-like" sound in wide bandwidth. I'm guessing it passes 8khz in wide bandwidth. On the low end, I can HEAR bass notes in the 40hz range ON AM through headphones. I'll bet your Sony can't do that.

You seem to think I'm claiming the S350 is some kind of "ultimate" radio. I've never made such a claim. It has obvious limitations. But it does some things that I VALUE very, very well.

By the way...EVERY radio has limitations, including your Sony. I'm guessing it's most serious limitation is SOUND QUALITY. Critical TO ME. If it isn't to you, then hey...it's your money (and mine)!

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Dude...most of the reviews at the places you mentioned were POSITIVE! And the S350 has been recommended by THE book on shortwave radios...Passport to World Band Radio since it's introduction.

YES it has limitations. So does every radio you mentioned. Like your 10 dollar Sony. I'd be willing to wager there is no bass below 200hz, so it completely misses the foundation of music. That's a pretty big omission to those of us for whom audio quality is important! Sony's multiband portables, like the otherwise excellent 7600G have LONG sported bass response that fell like a rock below 100hz even through headphones. And since I listen through headphones often, this flat disqualifies them from MY buying list! My Eton E5, Kaito KA1107, Grundig Yacht Boy 400, and Grundig S350 all have excellent sound quality, including extended bass response through headphones.

As for images, EVERY multiband radio has SOME images and/or spurious noises at some frequency (or frequencies) on some bands. it's a matter of the number, and severity. The S350 has more than double-conversion models, of course...but it also has a lot less self-noise than most inexpensive digitally tuned radios. Horses for courses. The S350 isn't my choice for serious dxing. For that I use my Drake SW8 with 200 foot longwire. It IS my choice for program listening, particularly the delightful programs of local musicians on WKBC AM (800khz) in North Wilkesboro NC, and WKSK (580khz) in West Jefferson NC. It pulls 'em both in like a champ, with very "fm-like" sound in wide bandwidth. I'm guessing it passes 8khz in wide bandwidth. On the low end, I can HEAR bass notes in the 40hz range ON AM through headphones. I'll bet your Sony can't do that.

You seem to think I'm claiming the S350 is some kind of "ultimate" radio. I've never made such a claim. It has obvious limitations. But it does some things that I VALUE very, very well.

By the way...EVERY radio has limitations, including your Sony. I'm guessing it's most serious limitation is SOUND QUALITY. Critical TO ME. If it isn't to you, then hey...it's your money (and mine)!

"What is the most over-rated radio that you have ever owned?"

"Grundig S350"

"1) oscillator noises on strong AM stations; detunes by 5 kHz on shortwave when a warm breeze reaches it; miserable image rejection; miserable dynamic range; only so-so sensitivity on SW2 and SW3; FM mono through headphones, but stereo through line-out jacks. i kept the radio. 2) Heavily hyped on newsgroups and Yahoo groups by its enthusiasts (who seem mostly to use it for MW listening), this radio neither delivers the performance it SHOULD be capable of, nor satisfies even a casual SWL'ing function. Technical defects abound, including: severe IF harmonics, creating spurious signals on BC and SW bands; overloading and cross-modulation by even moderately strong carriers; weird noises as the RF gain control is adjusted; asymmetrical filters that produce distortion on one or both sidebands; unreliable frequency display accuracy; very objectionable local oscillator drift; and severe mechanical backlash and tuning instability. The only GOOD thing about the radio is the bass response from the large speaker."

http://www.radiointel.com/results2.htm

This is only a snippet, of the problems, with this piece of garbage - check out the rest of the writeup !

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Here's a recording I made THIS MORNING of the AM audio from the Grundig S350. I never make claims I can't back up. This is what WKSK (West Jefferson, NC) sounds like on MY Grundig S350 in Boomer, NC...Wilkes County, about 30 miles away (WKSK is 5kw on 580khz. Though a small station in the NC mountains, they have a BIG-ASS SIGNAL...any radio dude knows that 5kw on this end of the dial goes like 50kw at the top!) Their audio is state of the art. Their air chain is pristine. Their processing is via a spankin' new digital Optimod, into a brand new 5kw Harris transmitter, and a brand new tower/antenna system, replacing the one that had stood on "radio hill" for more than four decades.

http://www.theproductionroom.net/wksk.wma

As I said...the audio quality on AM is reason enough to own it! Audio recorded from the line output into an Archos Gmini 402 digital recorder as uncompressed wav, transferred to my PC via usb, edited and compressed to wma with Adobe Audition in my studio.