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Real Oldies on HD2

M

mario

Guest
If you have an HD radio you can now hear 3 Chicago FM Oldie stations.

1) 104.3 WJMK HD2

2) 94.7 WZZN (although their HD channel has real problems)

3) 93.9 WLIT HD2 is simulcasting RealOldies 1690.
 
> If you have an HD radio you can now hear 3 Chicago FM Oldie
> stations.
>
> 1) 104.3 WJMK HD2
>
> 2) 94.7 WZZN (although their HD channel has real problems)
>
> 3) 93.9 WLIT HD2 is simulcasting RealOldies 1690.
>
Hey! 3 more stations people can't listen to!
HD radio...D.O.A.
 
> > If you have an HD radio you can now hear 3 Chicago FM
> Oldie
> > stations.
> >
> > 1) 104.3 WJMK HD2
> >
> > 2) 94.7 WZZN (although their HD channel has real problems)
>
> >
> > 3) 93.9 WLIT HD2 is simulcasting RealOldies 1690.
> >
> Hey! 3 more stations people can't listen to!
> HD radio...D.O.A.
>

I will refer you to what FM radio was back in the late 60's/early 70's and look where it is now.
 
> > > If you have an HD radio you can now hear 3 Chicago FM
> > Oldie
> > > stations.
> > >
> > > 1) 104.3 WJMK HD2
> > >
> > > 2) 94.7 WZZN (although their HD channel has real
> problems)
> >
> > >
> > > 3) 93.9 WLIT HD2 is simulcasting RealOldies 1690.
> > >
> > Hey! 3 more stations people can't listen to!
> > HD radio...D.O.A.
> >
>
> I will refer you to what FM radio was back in the late
> 60's/early 70's and look where it is now.
>

Y'know...same thing with those darned Compact Discs! No way I'm paying $1500 for a CD player, and $20 for a disc when I've got my cassettes!!

Of course, CD players have gotten cheap, and so will HD radio. But hey, it's much more fun to take a position that can't be disproven in the short term.

Come back in a couple of years...then you can argue your "D.O.A." comment.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
>
> Come back in a couple of years...then you can argue your
> "D.O.A." comment.
>
The normal "joe" radio listener has no idea what HD radio is.
Where is the marketing for this product?
Where can you buy this product?
If they came out with HD before satellite came out, it probably would of worked.
Now cars come with satellite radio built in and you can buy it at any electronics store or major chain stores.
The same thing goes for HD TV. It's still pretty expensive to buy a HD TV and there are only a handful of stations that broadcast in it. Last time I checked HD TV has been around a while and it's still lagging.
 
> The normal "joe" radio listener has no idea what HD radio
> is.
> Where is the marketing for this product?
> Where can you buy this product?
> If they came out with HD before satellite came out, it
> probably would of worked.
> Now cars come with satellite radio built in and you can buy
> it at any electronics store or major chain stores.
> The same thing goes for HD TV. It's still pretty expensive
> to buy a HD TV and there are only a handful of stations that
> broadcast in it. Last time I checked HD TV has been around
> a while and it's still lagging.
>

I disagree. The normal "joe" does know about HD radio.
 
> >
> > Come back in a couple of years...then you can argue your
> > "D.O.A." comment.
> >
> The normal "joe" radio listener has no idea what HD radio
> is.
> Where is the marketing for this product?
> Where can you buy this product?
> If they came out with HD before satellite came out, it
> probably would of worked.
> Now cars come with satellite radio built in and you can buy
> it at any electronics store or major chain stores.
> The same thing goes for HD TV. It's still pretty expensive
> to buy a HD TV and there are only a handful of stations that
> broadcast in it. Last time I checked HD TV has been around
> a while and it's still lagging.
>

...and then there are those that just dont get it.......

Lets see, where can you buy this product??? I just bought THREE in the past week without issue. Next question?
 
> > If they came out with HD before satellite came out, it
> > probably would of worked.
> > Now cars come with satellite radio built in and you can
> > buy it at any electronics store or major chain stores.

> > The same thing goes for HD TV. It's still pretty
> expensive
> > to buy a HD TV and there are only a handful of stations
> that
> > broadcast in it. Last time I checked HD TV has been
> around
> > a while and it's still lagging.

But HDTV does have the advantage. HD has marketing, it's easy to find, the government is requiring every station to broadcast in digital, etc. It's also coming out in combination with digital cable, and serves as a really appealing product. HDTV isn't faced with strong competition when comparing it to a 25" RCA TV, other than $$$.

HD Radio is known to much of the public for one reason: at the top of the hour, many stations are doing "Broadcasting in crystal-clear HD radio, this is WXXX...", regardless if the public knows what it is or not. HD Radio also has strong competition from satellite radio, especially on product. Is Howard Stern more enticing than a jockless marathon of music that can be found on any other station? And outside of Chicago, the rest of the country is seeing little, if any multicasting. And on that topic, CBS' move to dismiss Paul Perry from mornings on WJMK-HD2 shows that their devotion to airstaffs on HD Radio is to burn off contracts from FM, not exactly add new realms of talent.

HD Radio is quickly losing the car radio market that it never entered; this year, HD will apparently be an option on the BMW 7-series. That's the only car that HD is on. And it's not even standard on the most expensive BMW. Why would customers order an option that they have no real idea what it is? And if the car radio market is lost, where else does HD go? I guess they could enter the alarm clock market, once prices get low enough.
 
If this board had existed in the late 60s someone would have posted "FM Radio..DOA".<P ID="signature">______________
Have a Happy New Year!
http://www.thebig8.net/have_a_happy_new_year_with_cklw.mp3</P>
 
Food For Thought

I will be devil's advocate for a second, and ask you to rethink *how* you reply to people:

A) You have a technical edge of the industry, and over a majority of people so you have more knowledge on the topic.

B) In the 60's compared to today, AM radio had competition with FM Radio, 8 tracks, Reel To Reel, Phonographs, TV, etc. FM was pretty much the cat's meow for fidelity which AM did not have. Today, there are CD's, DVD's, online media content, Satellite Radio, in other words, people can get HIGH quality media, elsewhere, and for cheaper. Add in some research showing younger demos *not* tuning it to conventional radio, I am not saying HD Radio will fail, I think you are overstating its guranteed success. It will probably find its niche.

If Satellite radio goes to commercials, HD Radio will have an better edge. Also, the gear will have to become more cheaper (in time), plentiful and feature rich. Looking at the one Kenwood model, it does not even automatically MultiCast from what I seen. *Why* buy for so much if it does not even do what makes it so desirable in the 1st place? Give the common (key word) user a reason (user friendly) to really want to shell out for this, and get the ball rolling. Add in a concerted effort on programming and HD radio is on its way.

Finally, 1 last thing that no one has touched on. HD Radio has one BIG advantage. It is LOCAL. But, unfortunately a lot of terrestrial radio are moving away from that aspect to maximize profit. Hopefully this can be seen as an investment to sustain itself and allow it to grow.

This will grow or flounder like AM Stereo, depending on how the industry embraces and rolls it out.

Happy New Year to all forms of media!<P ID="signature">______________
<img border="0" src="[url]http://www.80snow.com/imgs/80sNowSig.jpg" width="200" height="148">[/url]
"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Justin:
EXCELLENT analysis. I wish I had the optimism of k9ez but I don't. I was around for the AM Stereo debacle, and some of those radios were available for less than $50 and no one cared. I remember when the Crutchfield catalogs listed as many as 10 AM Stereo car receivers, then 6 in the next catalog, 2 in the next and finally none.
Oh, by the way, if you're interested in a few AM Stereo exciters, please let me know.

> But HDTV does have the advantage. HD has marketing, it's
> easy to find, the government is requiring every station to
> broadcast in digital, etc. It's also coming out in
> combination with digital cable, and serves as a really
> appealing product. HDTV isn't faced with strong competition
> when comparing it to a 25" RCA TV, other than $$$.
>
> HD Radio is known to much of the public for one reason: at
> the top of the hour, many stations are doing "Broadcasting
> in crystal-clear HD radio, this is WXXX...", regardless if
> the public knows what it is or not. HD Radio also has strong
> competition from satellite radio, especially on product. Is
> Howard Stern more enticing than a jockless marathon of music
> that can be found on any other station? And outside of
> Chicago, the rest of the country is seeing little, if any
> multicasting. And on that topic, CBS' move to dismiss Paul
> Perry from mornings on WJMK-HD2 shows that their devotion to
> airstaffs on HD Radio is to burn off contracts from FM, not
> exactly add new realms of talent.
>
> HD Radio is quickly losing the car radio market that it
> never entered; this year, HD will apparently be an option on
> the BMW 7-series. That's the only car that HD is on. And
> it's not even standard on the most expensive BMW. Why would
> customers order an option that they have no real idea what
> it is? And if the car radio market is lost, where else does
> HD go? I guess they could enter the alarm clock market, once
> prices get low enough.
>
 
I am not over enthusiastic about HD Radio. Yes it could fail. I am saying that HD just started. There hasnt been any marketing YET. Stations just hit the air with HD, and many markets dont have HD2 yet.

When Sirius or XM came about they had to get their signals and programming in line before they began to sell the product. HD is just beginning to get the programming together. So to say that HD Radio is DOA is a tad premature.

> Justin:
> EXCELLENT analysis. I wish I had the optimism of k9ez but I
> don't. I was around for the AM Stereo debacle, and some of
> those radios were available for less than $50 and no one
> cared. I remember when the Crutchfield catalogs listed as
> many as 10 AM Stereo car receivers, then 6 in the next
> catalog, 2 in the next and finally none.
> Oh, by the way, if you're interested in a few AM Stereo
> exciters, please let me know.
>
> > But HDTV does have the advantage. HD has marketing, it's
> > easy to find, the government is requiring every station to
>
> > broadcast in digital, etc. It's also coming out in
> > combination with digital cable, and serves as a really
> > appealing product. HDTV isn't faced with strong
> competition
> > when comparing it to a 25" RCA TV, other than $$$.
> >
> > HD Radio is known to much of the public for one reason: at
>
> > the top of the hour, many stations are doing "Broadcasting
>
> > in crystal-clear HD radio, this is WXXX...", regardless if
>
> > the public knows what it is or not. HD Radio also has
> strong
> > competition from satellite radio, especially on product.
> Is
> > Howard Stern more enticing than a jockless marathon of
> music
> > that can be found on any other station? And outside of
> > Chicago, the rest of the country is seeing little, if any
> > multicasting. And on that topic, CBS' move to dismiss Paul
>
> > Perry from mornings on WJMK-HD2 shows that their devotion
> to
> > airstaffs on HD Radio is to burn off contracts from FM,
> not
> > exactly add new realms of talent.
> >
> > HD Radio is quickly losing the car radio market that it
> > never entered; this year, HD will apparently be an option
> on
> > the BMW 7-series. That's the only car that HD is on. And
> > it's not even standard on the most expensive BMW. Why
> would
> > customers order an option that they have no real idea what
>
> > it is? And if the car radio market is lost, where else
> does
> > HD go? I guess they could enter the alarm clock market,
> once
> > prices get low enough.
> >
>
 
I would also have to say that then normal "Joe" doesn't have a clue what HD Radio is. I think most people are just starting to figure out what RDS is and not that many people know what HD Radio is.

If you go to the iBiquity website and click on "Where To Buy" it doesn't even have a store that you can actually go in and buy an HD radio. It only has online retailers and one car manufacturer listed.

I'm sure that if you would go into a Best Buy or Circuit City, which is where a lot of people go to buy their electronics, most people that work there wouldn't know much about HD Radio. If you went into one of those same stores and said, "Can you tell me about your satellite radios?", they could tell you quite a bit.

I'm not saying that HD Radio will fail, but people aren't flocking out to buy these things right now. Once more stations start broadcasting HD, I think people will become more interested and consider purchasing them. Right now where I live there aren't ANY stations that are broadcasting in HD right now. There are two that are licensed and both in the non-commercial band. One has been licensed for over a year and the other has been licensed for about a month. There is only one station out of those two that I would listen to. I'm not buying an HD Radio for ONE station!!!!

I'm a DXer and I'm not really in favor of IBOC, simply because it blocks the adjacent channels that could be used for DXing. But I'm not opposed to change. I like new "toys", but right now HD Radio isn't even on my top 1,000.

There was an article in a recent edition of Radio World where it asked how long before analog signals would be turned off. The answer was "Perhaps 40 years." That seems like an awful long transition time, but who am I? I'm not a pro at this stuff. I just worked at a small-market radio group for 6 years and love radio.

Anyways...I need to end this and get supper on the stove.

That's just my 2 cents...

:)

Chris Cervantez
-Peoria, IL

> Lets see, where can you buy this product??? I just bought
> THREE in the past week without issue. Next question?
 
An Update On HD Radio Availability...

UPDATE: I had to go buy some groceries for supper and I decided to stop by Best Buy on the way. I went and looked for an HD Radio, but they only had HD Ready radios available and not the HD tuner that is needed for the HD Ready radio to work. They didn't have ANY signs promoting HD Radio, but had multiple signs for both Sirius and XM Satellite Radio. I also saw tons of signs for iPods and other forms of portable audio.

:)

Chris Cervantez
-Peoria, IL

> I would also have to say that then normal "Joe" doesn't have
> a clue what HD Radio is. I think most people are just
> starting to figure out what RDS is and not that many people
> know what HD Radio is.
>
> If you go to the iBiquity website and click on "Where To
> Buy" it doesn't even have a store that you can actually go
> in and buy an HD radio. It only has online retailers and
> one car manufacturer listed.
>
> I'm sure that if you would go into a Best Buy or Circuit
> City, which is where a lot of people go to buy their
> electronics, most people that work there wouldn't know much
> about HD Radio. If you went into one of those same stores
> and said, "Can you tell me about your satellite radios?",
> they could tell you quite a bit.
>
> I'm not saying that HD Radio will fail, but people aren't
> flocking out to buy these things right now. Once more
> stations start broadcasting HD, I think people will become
> more interested and consider purchasing them. Right now
> where I live there aren't ANY stations that are broadcasting
> in HD right now. There are two that are licensed and both
> in the non-commercial band. One has been licensed for over
> a year and the other has been licensed for about a month.
> There is only one station out of those two that I would
> listen to. I'm not buying an HD Radio for ONE station!!!!
>
> I'm a DXer and I'm not really in favor of IBOC, simply
> because it blocks the adjacent channels that could be used
> for DXing. But I'm not opposed to change. I like new
> "toys", but right now HD Radio isn't even on my top 1,000.
>
> There was an article in a recent edition of Radio World
> where it asked how long before analog signals would be
> turned off. The answer was "Perhaps 40 years." That seems
> like an awful long transition time, but who am I? I'm not a
> pro at this stuff. I just worked at a small-market radio
> group for 6 years and love radio.
>
> Anyways...I need to end this and get supper on the stove.
>
> That's just my 2 cents...
>
> :)
>
> Chris Cervantez
> -Peoria, IL
 
> > >
> > > Come back in a couple of years...then you can argue your
>
> > > "D.O.A." comment.
> > >
> > The normal "joe" radio listener has no idea what HD radio
> > is.
> > Where is the marketing for this product?
> > Where can you buy this product?
> > If they came out with HD before satellite came out, it
> > probably would of worked.
> > Now cars come with satellite radio built in and you can
> buy
> > it at any electronics store or major chain stores.
> > The same thing goes for HD TV. It's still pretty
> expensive
> > to buy a HD TV and there are only a handful of stations
> that
> > broadcast in it. Last time I checked HD TV has been
> around
> > a while and it's still lagging.
> >
>
> ...and then there are those that just dont get it.......
>
> Lets see, where can you buy this product??? I just bought
> THREE in the past week without issue. Next question?
>
Where? For what cost? Thanks!
 
> >
> > Come back in a couple of years...then you can argue your
> > "D.O.A." comment.
> >
> The normal "joe" radio listener has no idea what HD radio
> is.
> Where is the marketing for this product?
> Where can you buy this product?
> If they came out with HD before satellite came out, it
> probably would of worked.
> Now cars come with satellite radio built in and you can buy
> it at any electronics store or major chain stores.
> The same thing goes for HD TV. It's still pretty expensive
> to buy a HD TV and there are only a handful of stations that
> broadcast in it. Last time I checked HD TV has been around
> a while and it's still lagging.
>

I think you'll be seeing (and hearing) a lot more about HD very soon. We were all hesitant to start promoting HD radio before there was plenty of HD radio to listen to. That is quickly changing, and I know there are some big promotional activities right around the corner to raise awareness of it.

Like I said, you can't base long term performance on something that really hasn't launched yet. Check back in a few years, then we'll see if it actually failed.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Re: Food For Thought

> I will be devil's advocate for a second, and ask you to
> rethink *how* you reply to people:
>
> A) You have a technical edge of the industry, and over a
> majority of people so you have more knowledge on the topic.
>
> B) In the 60's compared to today, AM radio had competition
> with FM Radio, 8 tracks, Reel To Reel, Phonographs, TV, etc.
> FM was pretty much the cat's meow for fidelity which AM did
> not have. Today, there are CD's, DVD's, online media
> content, Satellite Radio, in other words, people can get
> HIGH quality media, elsewhere, and for cheaper. Add in some
> research showing younger demos *not* tuning it to
> conventional radio, I am not saying HD Radio will fail, I
> think you are overstating its guranteed success. It will
> probably find its niche.
>
> If Satellite radio goes to commercials, HD Radio will have
> an better edge. Also, the gear will have to become more
> cheaper (in time), plentiful and feature rich. Looking at
> the one Kenwood model, it does not even automatically
> MultiCast from what I seen. *Why* buy for so much if it does
> not even do what makes it so desirable in the 1st place?
> Give the common (key word) user a reason (user friendly) to
> really want to shell out for this, and get the ball rolling.
> Add in a concerted effort on programming and HD radio is on
> its way.
>
> Finally, 1 last thing that no one has touched on. HD Radio
> has one BIG advantage. It is LOCAL. But, unfortunately a lot
> of terrestrial radio are moving away from that aspect to
> maximize profit. Hopefully this can be seen as an investment
> to sustain itself and allow it to grow.
>
> This will grow or flounder like AM Stereo, depending on how
> the industry embraces and rolls it out.
>
> Happy New Year to all forms of media!
>

I'm going to step in and "defend" k9ez for a moment.

He and I both have a technical edge, since we both have installed HD for large stations owned by large companies. Because of this, we are privvy to a lot of inside information about the plans of HD rollout, marketing, and programming. We can see much further into the future than others.

Large broadcast groups have invested lots of big bucks into the technical, programming, and marketing of HD. These are companies who see this as an infant technology, and have plans that span years into the future. Unlike AM stereo, we have settled on a standard, and have invested a lot more money into rolling it out.

I have not heard anyone on this side of the HD project talking about making any money in the first few years. This is an investment in the future.

And again, as it's been said over and over, the cost of the receivers is high now, but so is the first and second generation of ANY technical device. How much did CD players cost in their first generation? DVD players? VCR's? All of these things now are "throwaway" and cost next to nothing to own, yet were prohibitively expensive in their infancy. Remember how you used to have to buy a converter to hear FM on an AM-Only radio? Nowadays, you can't buy an AM-Only radio!

HD Radio is a "chicken and egg" game - the only way the prices will come down is if someone, either the receiver manufacturers or the radio stations, goes first. We know there are very few people who have the radios now. That isn't what matters. What matters is that those first few people who get HD radios have something to listen to. Nothing worse than spending good money on a toy, and not being able to play with it! k9ez and I joke that we're the only ones listening to the other's HD signals. The hope though is that once we start promoting HD, there will be plenty to listen to.

So that's why there are more and more stations turning on HD. Those who have the radios usually aren't disappointed, and we want to keep it that way.

It does get frustrating when you spend so much time launching an HD signal (it ain't easy!) only to have someone who doesn't know much about the technology dismiss it with a simple "so what? It'll fail anyway!". k9ez and I are saying that if in a few years, HD fails to take off, we'll be the first ones here to talk about it.

But let's not declare it dead before it's really even been launched!

I have an HD radio, and I'll tell you...it really does sound great, and even better, there is more great content available. Those of you complaining about not having a Dance station in Chicago - you have one: WBBM-HD2, and it sounds awesome!<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> > > >
> > > > Come back in a couple of years...then you can argue
> your
> >
> > > > "D.O.A." comment.
> > > >
> > > The normal "joe" radio listener has no idea what HD
> radio
> > > is.
> > > Where is the marketing for this product?
> > > Where can you buy this product?
> > > If they came out with HD before satellite came out, it
> > > probably would of worked.
> > > Now cars come with satellite radio built in and you can
> > buy
> > > it at any electronics store or major chain stores.
> > > The same thing goes for HD TV. It's still pretty
> > expensive
> > > to buy a HD TV and there are only a handful of stations
> > that
> > > broadcast in it. Last time I checked HD TV has been
> > around
> > > a while and it's still lagging.
> > >
> >
> > ...and then there are those that just dont get it.......
> >
> > Lets see, where can you buy this product??? I just bought
>
> > THREE in the past week without issue. Next question?
> >
> Where? For what cost? Thanks!
>


My best deal was an HD1 radio BRAND NEW off of EBay for $70. I also ordered two high end units with Multicasting. One from Crutchfield the other from Cardomain.com.
 
> My best deal was an HD1 radio BRAND NEW off of EBay for $70.
> I also ordered two high end units with Multicasting. One
> from Crutchfield the other from Cardomain.com.
>
Are there any home models available? I wouldn't mind taking a listen in the home as in the car, which seems to be the big push right now.
 
> If you have an HD radio you can now hear 3 Chicago FM Oldie
> stations.
>
> 1) 104.3 WJMK HD2
>
> 2) 94.7 WZZN (although their HD channel has real problems)
>
> 3) 93.9 WLIT HD2 is simulcasting RealOldies 1690.

If I lived in Chicago, the fact that WRLL is simulcast on WLIT would convince me to buy the a HD radio. <P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.118.54:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
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