Real Winners in Seattle Radio

[djdan]

The headlines are rolling out this week:

CBS off 18% for Quarter
Fisher off 49% for Quarter
Clear Channel off 23%
Entercom may miss debt payments

Makes you wonder who the real winners are in Seattle radio. FM Steve brought up in the middle of an earlier thread (my response printed below) that Sandusky may be the smartest operator in town. FMSteve may be right:


Excellent point. KQMV in average rating is well ahead of KUBE on the six book PPM average and since it costs little to run is probably a great ROI for Sandusky. KWJZ and KIXI are virtually automation right now so the ROI is nice too. KRWM is the number four billing station in the market behind KMPS, KPLZ and KIRO-FM in the Sept M/K. They have much lower cost of operation than KMPS, KPLZ or KIRO so I would guess they have the highest profit margin of any group in Seattle. Add to that they are privately owned and have long paid off their debt on the stations and I can't see any reason Sandusky would change any of their stations. Bonneville is in a similar situation. KTTH is automated and the top rated spoken word station in the market, KIRO-FM is well ahead of KOMO in ratings and is number three in billing and could be number one this month. KIRO-AM is the only question mark, but if they just simulcast the FM, except during Mariner games, Bonneville would have an ROI that challenges Sandusky. Plus Bonneville owes nothing on the station group since it was a swap.

FM Steve is right. Sandusky and Bonneville won't be changing anything, anytime soon.[/i]

 

[TakeItFromMe]

Yeah that's winning cowboy :-X Three virtually automated stations with liner jocks in JAZZ, WARM and KIXI and then a station like MOVIN that don't spend a dime on talent but have a bunch of small market people that cost nothin :-\ In a crap economy sure that wins.

When things get better the companies that are investing in the product like Entercom or CBS will see the ratings and the $$$. This cowboy says the smart money has someone flipping to take out WARM because other than music in offices it has no other reason to listen.
Good AC with lots of gold music and a friendly morning talent would make WARM into LUKEWARM in no time. Bottom feeder low rent stations do great when the economy is down cause it don't take brains to cut. If that is your idea of successful radio djdan it is no wonder you are in sales :-\

 

[RadioEatsItsYoung]

Yeah that's winning cowboy :-X Three virtually automated stations with liner jocks in JAZZ, WARM and KIXI and then a station like MOVIN that don't spend a dime on talent but have a bunch of small market people that cost nothin :-\ In a crap economy sure that wins.

When things get better the companies that are investing in the product like Entercom or CBS will see the ratings and the $$$. This cowboy says the smart money has someone flipping to take out WARM because other than music in offices it has no other reason to listen.
Good AC with lots of gold music and a friendly morning talent would make WARM into LUKEWARM in no time. Bottom feeder low rent stations do great when the economy is down cause it don't take brains to cut. If that is your idea of successful radio djdan it is no wonder you are in sales :-\

First off, when did Entercom or CBS invest in their product before the recession? Quick answer is hardly ever. So what makes you think they’ll be quick to invest when the market picks up? Have you seen where their respective stocks are right now? Dismal. It’s going to be quite awhile before things pick up enough for corporate to loosen the purse strings.

Secondly, radio is a business about MAKING MONEY. Is McDonalds stupid for selling an inferior product at a high rate of return? No. They’re smart and they’re thriving. If people purchase (or in this case listen to) the product, then what’s the problem?

Thirdly, I’m sure the people at Sandusky would consider this winning. They have a high profit margin and it shows. They’ve let go of a total of what, 4 people in the last year and ½? Not bad compared to other station groups in the market.

Finally, couldn’t agree with you more about an AC station. Someone could come in and position themselves between WARM and Star and take those stations down…..but not without marketing $$$ to let people know you’re there! And as someone pointed out in a previous thread, there aren’t too many groups with a couple million laying around to invest in blowing up a station.

 

[AQH]

Finally, couldn’t agree with you more about an AC station. Someone could come in and position themselves between WARM and Star and take those stations down…..but not without marketing $$$ to let people know you’re there! And as someone pointed out in a previous thread, there aren’t too many groups with a couple million laying around to invest in blowing up a station.

That was called KLSY, they are no longer on the air now. For a reason.

 

[RadioEatsItsYoung]

AQH. There's this new fandangled thing called PPM. Not sure if you've heard of it or not, but it's kinda changed the landscape in radio. KRWM and KPLZ have huge numbers...why not send a station down the middle to try and erode both sides?

PPM is all about At-Work Listenership. KPLZ and KRWM have that market cornered for women. KRWM is bland and stale. KPLZ is predictable and played-out. This is a huge hole that someone could plow through and realize some nice #'s.

Finally, KLSY didn't work because it had to stay far enough away from its sister KRWM. Another AC not controled by Fisher or Sandusky could play whatever they want without fear of taking away from a sister station.

Typically you make some great points on this board so I'm surprised how you would just dismiss a new AC in the market. But that’s the thing about PPM...it leaves old radio rats stuck in the same old diary mentality.

 

[AQH]

AQH. There's this new fandangled thing called PPM. Not sure if you've heard of it or not, but it's kinda changed the landscape in radio. KRWM and KPLZ have huge numbers...why not send a station down the middle to try and erode both sides?

But you're talking about trying to poach number from Warm and Star, yet you're using PPM (yes, I've heard of it, thanks) as reasoning to pursue a perceived hole in AC. That's flawed thinking right there.

Warm has about three currents, spinning every eight hours and doesn't even play 70s anymore during the day (Delilah is night time exception). Star has about five currents, rotating at a little under four hours every day and they play 80s (again). Star plays the uptempo music Warm avoids, and Warm plays the sleepy music Star avoids. Where in the world is the hole there?

PPM is all about At-Work Listenership. KPLZ and KRWM have that market cornered for women. KRWM is bland and stale. KPLZ is predictable and played-out. This is a huge hole that someone could plow through and realize some nice #'s.

Again, flawed logic. PPM is a unit of measurement, it's not a metric to say "alright, let's go after these guys." The "let's take a slice out of their pie" thinking well pre-dates PPM. It's how KXRX, K-Hit, Young Country and even The Wolf were born.

Secondly, have you ever thought that in Seattle, a very unique market, that bland and predictable is good? Knowing exactly what they're going to get is exactly what an AC station strives for. And it takes years to build, something a new start-up won't have the time, money or the patience for.

Finally, KLSY didn't work because it had to stay far enough away from its sister KRWM. Another AC not controled by Fisher or Sandusky could play whatever they want without fear of taking away from a sister station.

KLSY failed primarily because it got squeezed out of the contemporary arena. You're right about the softer side, it couldn't go softer because of Warm, yet there was a buzzsaw on the other end with Star, and even Kiss (when it changed with the wind).

Also, it didn't help that KLSY's morning show, Mitch and Lisa, sounded like there was more friction than chemistry between them.

Typically you make some great points on this board so I'm surprised how you would just dismiss a new AC in the market. But that’s the thing about PPM...it leaves old radio rats stuck in the same old diary mentality.

First, thanks for the compliment.

But I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. For similar cost reasons, I do not think launching a new AC, at least one in between Warm and Star is a wise idea. I do think there might be another contemporary opportunity, albeit not a very large one.

 

[djdan]

Launching an AC in Seattle, unless it leaned older or gold would be suicide. In the female demo you forget there is KRWM, KPLZ, but also KCMS, KMPS, KWFF and even KMTT and KJAQ in the way. Not much room inbetween KRWM and KPLZ with all the other stations too.

Better to go with the easy opening inbetween KRWM and what was KBSG. There is a big audience unserved and gold based AC stations have done very well in the PPM. Oldies by itself would probably be too old a demo.

The more obvious real opening is for a Brew type format which is made for the PPM. They are having good success. They have their own audience but also steal from KJAQ, KJR-FM, KZOK and even a little of KISW. There is nothing like it in Seattle. Also AMP style stations that use social media at Mainstream CHR also seem to work. KISS in LA and AMP co-exist with their own audiences. A new AMP style station might have trouble, but KUBE or KQMV could easily adjust and move this direction.

AQH is right. It all comes down to marketing. Even if you take an open format like Brew, Oldies/AC or AMP you still need to let people know it exists and that takes money. If you decide you want to take on KRWM or KPLZ or another existing format it will take lots of money and time.

 

[dialtwister]

AC -

NOT just a format for soft ears,
but SOFT for a station's sales dept...

 

[TVradioguru]

AC -

NOT just a format for soft ears,
but SOFT for a station's sales dept...

What the..?? Why do you feel the need to comment about almost every subject when you bring nothing to the discussion?

In case you've been spending too much time roaming the halls of high school radio, AC stations are some of the larger success stories since PPM measurement began. And of note is the fact that AC had been written off as dead on arrival. Try to keep up Twister.