jwgreek8606 said:
Jamey, KXTV 10 wanted more money from ABC than they were getting from CBS, and at the time, KOVR's loss of Monday Night Football was KXTV's gain.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Jamey, KXTV 10 wanted more money from ABC than they were getting from CBS, and at the time, KOVR's loss of Monday Night Football was KXTV's gain.
G
gibby88
Guest
I thought it had something to do with WFAA renewing their contract with ABC, because KXTV at that time was a Belo station.
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot about Belo owning KXTV 10. Gannett owns KXTV nowadays.
bpatrick said:
A few episodes of Bandstand turned up on KDTV Channel 39. This was before Pat Robertson's KXTX Channel 33 came on the air--and eventually switched to 39.
Most of the episodes on KDTV were in black and white. I don't know why.
I'd love to read more about the Birmingham network shuffle of the late 60s some posts have mentioned. Sounds interesting.
newsmark said:
In a nutshell: Prior to 1965, WBRC-TV 6 was ABC primary, and WAPI-TV 13 (now WVTM) was dual NBC / CBS primary. WBRC did clear several CBS daytime soaps and Password, but otherwise it was not shown in TV GUIDE as CBS secondary.
1965: WBMG-TV 42 (now WIAT) signed on, initially as an independent -- but from the start pretty much cleared what NBC and CBS shows WAPI-TV didn't pick up (and even some ABC cast-offs from channel 6).
Throughout the late '60s, WAPI-TV maintained its NBC/CBS dual affiliation -- simply: Channel 13 cherry-picked from both Peacock and Eye, and channel 42 got sloppy seconds. What this resulted in was a lack of brand identification ..... and it confused hades out of many B'ham viewers! Still, both networks apparently didn't mind; their rationale was "better half of a VHF than a whole UHF."
I'm led to believe FCC intervention led to a resolution. In any case, in the Spring of 1970, WAPI-TV signed an exclusive network affil contract with NBC. CBS, by default, went with channel 42. This went into effect on May 31, 1970.
So, why didn't Channel 13 go with CBS - at the time the #1 network? Mainly because the CEO of Newhouse (13's owner at the time; also owned The Birmingham News) was said to have loathed William Paley! But there was also the reality of Birmingham never being a strong market for CBS. The memory of Howard K. Smith's 1961 documentary Who Speaks for Birmingham? was still fresh on some peoples' minds. (it apparently played a role in WBRC-6 dropping CBS for ABC)
Here's a WAPI-TV newspaper advert from November 1966:
http://www.birminghamrewound.com/features/WAPI13_1166.JPG
A background of Birmingham TV can be found here (shameless plug for my website ;-)):
http://www.birminghamrewound.com/radio-tv.htm
--Russell
J
jwgreek8606
Guest
Another switch I am wondering about is why did WSJV in South Bend IN, switch from ABC to Fox if it has already been covered I am sorry.
As I've mentioned many times in response to Russell's
account of the affiliation confusion in Birmingham,
Raleigh/Durham went through the same thing. WRAL/5
switched from NBC to ABC in 1962, and for the next
six years WTVD/11 cherry-picked CBS and NBC ("the
best of the two best," as their ads put it). In 1968,
WRDU/28 signed on as, ostensibly, the Triangle's NBC
affiliate, but WTVD continued to pick the highest-rated
CBS and NBC shows and stick WRDU with the leftovers.
It was WRDU's complaint to the FCC that ended the
confusing situation in both Birmingham and the Triangle.
Unlike Birmingham, Raleigh/Durham was a fairly decent
CBS market (even more so since the WRAL/WTVD switch
in '85), and it's interesting to compare the two. For
instance, WTVD carried Walter Cronkite while WAPI carried
Huntley-Brinkley. Ed Sullivan and Johnny Carson were on
VHF in the Triangle but UHF in Birmingham. WTVD carried
all of the CBS soaps except Love Is A Many Splendored
Thing (until it became CBS exclusively) and only one NBC
soap, Another World. Captain Kangaroo was another show
on VHF in Raleigh but UHF in Birmingham (at least when I
moved there in '69). Jackie Gleason aired in pattern in
Raleigh, but on a delay from 6:30 to 10 PM (Central) in
Birmingham.
The Howard K. Smith documentary on Birmingham did not
air in the Triangle, but neither did "CBS Reports" in general
in 1961. Then, WTVD carried CBS and ABC; I'm not sure
what WTVD was carrying (possibly "The Untouchables"),
so it was a matter of going with the higher-rated program.
However, WRAL as an ABC affiliate carried Huntley-Brinkley
over Smith and Harry Reasoner until (1) WRDU became NBC
exclusively, and (2) Reasoner excoriated those ABC affiliates
still pre-empting the network news in 1971 (WBRC became one
of the last two, along with WJRT Flint, MI, to pick up Smith and
Reasoner, on August 7, 1972).
account of the affiliation confusion in Birmingham,
Raleigh/Durham went through the same thing. WRAL/5
switched from NBC to ABC in 1962, and for the next
six years WTVD/11 cherry-picked CBS and NBC ("the
best of the two best," as their ads put it). In 1968,
WRDU/28 signed on as, ostensibly, the Triangle's NBC
affiliate, but WTVD continued to pick the highest-rated
CBS and NBC shows and stick WRDU with the leftovers.
It was WRDU's complaint to the FCC that ended the
confusing situation in both Birmingham and the Triangle.
Unlike Birmingham, Raleigh/Durham was a fairly decent
CBS market (even more so since the WRAL/WTVD switch
in '85), and it's interesting to compare the two. For
instance, WTVD carried Walter Cronkite while WAPI carried
Huntley-Brinkley. Ed Sullivan and Johnny Carson were on
VHF in the Triangle but UHF in Birmingham. WTVD carried
all of the CBS soaps except Love Is A Many Splendored
Thing (until it became CBS exclusively) and only one NBC
soap, Another World. Captain Kangaroo was another show
on VHF in Raleigh but UHF in Birmingham (at least when I
moved there in '69). Jackie Gleason aired in pattern in
Raleigh, but on a delay from 6:30 to 10 PM (Central) in
Birmingham.
The Howard K. Smith documentary on Birmingham did not
air in the Triangle, but neither did "CBS Reports" in general
in 1961. Then, WTVD carried CBS and ABC; I'm not sure
what WTVD was carrying (possibly "The Untouchables"),
so it was a matter of going with the higher-rated program.
However, WRAL as an ABC affiliate carried Huntley-Brinkley
over Smith and Harry Reasoner until (1) WRDU became NBC
exclusively, and (2) Reasoner excoriated those ABC affiliates
still pre-empting the network news in 1971 (WBRC became one
of the last two, along with WJRT Flint, MI, to pick up Smith and
Reasoner, on August 7, 1972).
H
hammondo
Guest
YOu asked; Another switch I am wondering about is why did WSJV in South Bend IN, switch from ABC to Fox if it has already been covered I am sorry.
The reason is certanly FOX has many more local avails than abc. WSJV
gets a zillion avails inside FOX network shows and only a piddly few from abc. Also, they probably got NO compensation from abc.
The FOX deal is much better in a market that size.
The reason is certanly FOX has many more local avails than abc. WSJV
gets a zillion avails inside FOX network shows and only a piddly few from abc. Also, they probably got NO compensation from abc.
The FOX deal is much better in a market that size.
Re the Spokane switch that was triggered by KXLY's tendency to schedule CBS programs to suit itself: WKRG Mobile did the same thing for years, and probably avoided loss of its CBS affiliation after the Spokane switch. It must have put the fear of Paley into WKRG, because they then (mid-'70s) began carrying virtually everything in pattern.
R
Rube Dali the DodoHorse
Guest
The Twin Cities has experienced four afilliation swaps over time(The 1952 conversion WTCN-TV 1.0 to WCCO-TV doesn't count since the station carried both ABC(1st primary) and CBS(2nd primary) at the same time. Neither does the conversions of the present CW and MyNetwork stations from their former WB and UPN affiliations).
1961: WTCN-TV 2.0 lost the ABC affiliation to KMSP-TV(formerly a DuMont station). I have no idea how it came about.
1978-79: The great switcheroo. As ABC skyrocketed in the '70's, it became patently obvious that United Television, KMSP's owner, had very little interest in having a competitive news operation. With this is mind, ABC made offers in 1977 to KSTP-TV, then with NBC; WCCO-TV, the CBS station; and WTCN-TV, the independent. Well the Hubbard family finally said yes in August of 1978, setting off a battle royale between WTCN and KMSP for NBC. WTCN won out, forcing KMSP to go independent. And WCCO lampooned all of this with some funny ads.Studioz-7 has a great article about KMSP's travails in the '70's.
1988: KMSP-TV is back again, only this time it's for defecting the Fox network, because it's ratings were horrible. KITN took over that affiliation until...
2002: By this time both KMSP and the re-call signed WFTC were now under the new ownership of Fox Television Stations(KMSP via the buyout of United Television/BHC/Chris-Craft; WFTC via a swap with Clear Channel for KTVX in Salt Lake City and KMOL(WOAI-TV) in San Antonio). WFTC held the Fox affiliation, but KMSP was the stronger channel at that point(and still is). So Fox, needing to improve it's standing in this market, orchestrated the switch that occured on the opening day of the NFL season.
1961: WTCN-TV 2.0 lost the ABC affiliation to KMSP-TV(formerly a DuMont station). I have no idea how it came about.
1978-79: The great switcheroo. As ABC skyrocketed in the '70's, it became patently obvious that United Television, KMSP's owner, had very little interest in having a competitive news operation. With this is mind, ABC made offers in 1977 to KSTP-TV, then with NBC; WCCO-TV, the CBS station; and WTCN-TV, the independent. Well the Hubbard family finally said yes in August of 1978, setting off a battle royale between WTCN and KMSP for NBC. WTCN won out, forcing KMSP to go independent. And WCCO lampooned all of this with some funny ads.Studioz-7 has a great article about KMSP's travails in the '70's.
1988: KMSP-TV is back again, only this time it's for defecting the Fox network, because it's ratings were horrible. KITN took over that affiliation until...
2002: By this time both KMSP and the re-call signed WFTC were now under the new ownership of Fox Television Stations(KMSP via the buyout of United Television/BHC/Chris-Craft; WFTC via a swap with Clear Channel for KTVX in Salt Lake City and KMOL(WOAI-TV) in San Antonio). WFTC held the Fox affiliation, but KMSP was the stronger channel at that point(and still is). So Fox, needing to improve it's standing in this market, orchestrated the switch that occured on the opening day of the NFL season.
dhett said:
I saw a rumor once that WROC's news at one time was being beat by the local cable news station. You can't get much lower than that! As far back as 1976 when WROC was TV-AM-FM (WPXY) I auditioned for a job at WROC-AM. Believe me I wanted no part of them after my weekend try out. Some places are just jinxed must be bad Karma in the building they have been through a couple of owners since then. Sorry to hear the TV station is still a mess.
My favorite story is what happened in Miami. Talk about swaps!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTVJ
Probably the ultimate swap story, it even triggered a swap in West Palm Beach, not to mention a later swap when Westinghouse became part of CBS. If you're interested in this sort of thing it's an interesting story!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTVJ
Probably the ultimate swap story, it even triggered a swap in West Palm Beach, not to mention a later swap when Westinghouse became part of CBS. If you're interested in this sort of thing it's an interesting story!
Mike Sheridan said:
It may have been in 2007, but channel 8 is in very good shape right now. It went HD last month, a year or so after market-leading WHAM-TV 13 but well ahead of WHEC-TV 10, which is still in SD (and was still shooting in Beta just a few weeks ago!). They've settled down on a solid anchor team that's found traction in the market, and they're at least a regular contender for second place in most dayparts and have won at 11 on occasion.
Are there any markets where no station ever changed its affiliation unless the network they carried folded, merged or became a syndication service? Hartford/New Haven wouldn't count in this case:
CBS - went from channel 18 of Hartford to channel 3 of Hartford at the end of the 1950s.
ABC - has been on channel 8 of New Haven as long as I've been around (1971), maybe longer.
NBC - has been on channel 30 of New Britain as their primary affiliation since their 1953 sign on. The market also had NBC on channel 20 of Waterbury until 1982. Channel 20 then became independent WTXX-TV. This was largely due to channel 30 increasing their signal around 1978, making channel 20's coverage of more western and southern areas redundant.
FOX- has been on channel 61 of Hartford since they started in 1986 with Joan Rivers' talk show.
If we count the lesser networks:
CW - Assumed by channel 20 after the merge of WB and UPN. Channel 20 had been WB.
MY - Started on channel 59 of New Haven when they lost UPN.
ION - Started out as PAX on channel 26 of New London. Channel 26 was once WTWS-TV (IND).
I know Boston/Worcester and Providence/New Bedford wouldn't qualify.
The original "Big 3" would in Portland/Poland Spring (WCSH, WMTW and WGME) and Bangor (WLBZ, WABI and WVII) would, but not their FOX stations. In Portland, WPXT-TV channel 51 signed on in 1986 and was an independent for about one month. They took FOX when it started up in October of 1986 with Joan Rivers. WPXT-TV would lose their FOX affiliation in October of 2001. The market went well over a year without their own FOX station. The old WMPX-TV (PAX) channel 23 of Waterville would then be converted to today's WPFO-TV, a.k.a. FOX 23.
CBS - went from channel 18 of Hartford to channel 3 of Hartford at the end of the 1950s.
ABC - has been on channel 8 of New Haven as long as I've been around (1971), maybe longer.
NBC - has been on channel 30 of New Britain as their primary affiliation since their 1953 sign on. The market also had NBC on channel 20 of Waterbury until 1982. Channel 20 then became independent WTXX-TV. This was largely due to channel 30 increasing their signal around 1978, making channel 20's coverage of more western and southern areas redundant.
FOX- has been on channel 61 of Hartford since they started in 1986 with Joan Rivers' talk show.
If we count the lesser networks:
CW - Assumed by channel 20 after the merge of WB and UPN. Channel 20 had been WB.
MY - Started on channel 59 of New Haven when they lost UPN.
ION - Started out as PAX on channel 26 of New London. Channel 26 was once WTWS-TV (IND).
I know Boston/Worcester and Providence/New Bedford wouldn't qualify.
The original "Big 3" would in Portland/Poland Spring (WCSH, WMTW and WGME) and Bangor (WLBZ, WABI and WVII) would, but not their FOX stations. In Portland, WPXT-TV channel 51 signed on in 1986 and was an independent for about one month. They took FOX when it started up in October of 1986 with Joan Rivers. WPXT-TV would lose their FOX affiliation in October of 2001. The market went well over a year without their own FOX station. The old WMPX-TV (PAX) channel 23 of Waterville would then be converted to today's WPFO-TV, a.k.a. FOX 23.
The story of network affiliation changes in my neck of the woods:
In Boston, WBZ-4 was the primary NBC affiliate fro m it's launch on June 9, 1948 through January 1, 1995. In it's early years, it carried a handful of ABC and DuMont shows.
WNAC-7 came on the air June 21, 1948, and was CBS primary, with some ABC and DuMont programs.
On November 26th,. 1957, Channel 5 (originally WHDH, no relation to the station on Channel 7 now using those call letters) came on the air and became primary ABC, giving all three networks (DuMont had folded by this time) a full-time affiliate here in Boston for the first time.
In March of 1960, NBC had planned to swap it's Washington stations (WRC/WRC-TV) with RKO General's Boston properties (WNAC/WNAC-TV). This would have made WNAC the NBC station. These changes were expected to take effect on or around January 1, 1961.
CBS made a deal to affiliate with WHDH-5, leaving WBZ-4 for ABC.
But the FCC turned down this deal, so WBZ was able to keep it's NBC-TV affiliation. CBS, however, wanted to move to Channel 5 since it's tower (and that of WBZ) was much taller than WNAC's, and had a larger signal area.
So instead of becoming an NBC affiliate (yet), WNAC became an ABC affiliate on January 1, 1961, and Channel 5 became CBS.
A decade later, when the Boston Herald-Traveller, the parent of the original Channel 5, lost the license for the station, CBS was scared stiff of the new owners' (WCVB) proposal to pre-empt several hours of prime-time each week for local programming. Thus, CBS came back to WNAC (which by now was transmitting from the Needham antenna farm with a signal comparable to WBZ and WCVB) and ABC, after briefly talking to WSBK-38 and WKBG-56, decided to go with WCVB. This was effective March 19, 1972, the day WCVB took mover Channel 5, and in effect reversed the 1961 affiliation swap.
In the end, WCVB didn't pre-empt as many prime-time network programs as ABC feared and has become year=-in and year-out, one of ABC's strongest affiliations.
One note about WBZ going to CBS in 1995: In the end, NBC went with the now-WHDH-7, and there's some irony in that. WHDH is owned by Ed Ansin, and back in 1988, he got dumped by the Peacock Network when NBC purchased a TV station in Miami. There's even an urban legend that Ansin found out about the deal when a news department editor came in his office with a piece of wire-service copy reporting that NBC purchased another Miami station. The news editor showed Ansin the story and said "Mr. Ansin, this confirms the news you got from NBC that they're buying WTVJ" (the news editor assumed Ansin had already known about this). Ansin reportedly said "This is the first I've heard of it! F*** NBC!!".
I don't know if this story is true. Maybe someone in South Florida can tell us if this story is true.
But six and a half years later, after NBC supposedly came close to buying WFXT-25 from Fox, the network decided to do business with Ansin again, this time in Boston.
In Boston, WBZ-4 was the primary NBC affiliate fro m it's launch on June 9, 1948 through January 1, 1995. In it's early years, it carried a handful of ABC and DuMont shows.
WNAC-7 came on the air June 21, 1948, and was CBS primary, with some ABC and DuMont programs.
On November 26th,. 1957, Channel 5 (originally WHDH, no relation to the station on Channel 7 now using those call letters) came on the air and became primary ABC, giving all three networks (DuMont had folded by this time) a full-time affiliate here in Boston for the first time.
In March of 1960, NBC had planned to swap it's Washington stations (WRC/WRC-TV) with RKO General's Boston properties (WNAC/WNAC-TV). This would have made WNAC the NBC station. These changes were expected to take effect on or around January 1, 1961.
CBS made a deal to affiliate with WHDH-5, leaving WBZ-4 for ABC.
But the FCC turned down this deal, so WBZ was able to keep it's NBC-TV affiliation. CBS, however, wanted to move to Channel 5 since it's tower (and that of WBZ) was much taller than WNAC's, and had a larger signal area.
So instead of becoming an NBC affiliate (yet), WNAC became an ABC affiliate on January 1, 1961, and Channel 5 became CBS.
A decade later, when the Boston Herald-Traveller, the parent of the original Channel 5, lost the license for the station, CBS was scared stiff of the new owners' (WCVB) proposal to pre-empt several hours of prime-time each week for local programming. Thus, CBS came back to WNAC (which by now was transmitting from the Needham antenna farm with a signal comparable to WBZ and WCVB) and ABC, after briefly talking to WSBK-38 and WKBG-56, decided to go with WCVB. This was effective March 19, 1972, the day WCVB took mover Channel 5, and in effect reversed the 1961 affiliation swap.
In the end, WCVB didn't pre-empt as many prime-time network programs as ABC feared and has become year=-in and year-out, one of ABC's strongest affiliations.
One note about WBZ going to CBS in 1995: In the end, NBC went with the now-WHDH-7, and there's some irony in that. WHDH is owned by Ed Ansin, and back in 1988, he got dumped by the Peacock Network when NBC purchased a TV station in Miami. There's even an urban legend that Ansin found out about the deal when a news department editor came in his office with a piece of wire-service copy reporting that NBC purchased another Miami station. The news editor showed Ansin the story and said "Mr. Ansin, this confirms the news you got from NBC that they're buying WTVJ" (the news editor assumed Ansin had already known about this). Ansin reportedly said "This is the first I've heard of it! F*** NBC!!".
I don't know if this story is true. Maybe someone in South Florida can tell us if this story is true.
But six and a half years later, after NBC supposedly came close to buying WFXT-25 from Fox, the network decided to do business with Ansin again, this time in Boston.
The major reason for ABC moving from WTEV-6 to WPRI-12 in 1977 was signal-related.
WTEV (now WLNE)'s analog signal was transmitted from a tower in Tiverton, Rhode Island, southeast of Providence and just north of the coastal resort town of Newport. WTEV/WLNE couldn't move it's analog tower any further to the north or closer to Providence (WJAR-10 and WPRI-12 transmit from Rehobeth, Massachusetts, which is east of Providence) because to do so would create significant interference to WCSH in Portland, Maine, also on Channel 6.
North of Providence, the WTEV/WLNE analog signal quickly dropped-off. In most of the Boston area, WJAR and WPRI's analog signals were easily picked-up on most TV sets. Not Channel 6.
With ABC's moving to first place in prime-time in 1976, the network thought they could finally realistically upgrade it's affiliate roster, and Providence was a major priority, given WTEV's signal problems.
Prior to 1977, many viewers in Providence and points north would watch ABC programs from Boston's WCVB-5 (since March, 1972, and from WNAC-7 between January of 1961 to March of 1972) because it had a clearer signal than the more "local" WTEV.
Due in large part to signal limitations, WTEV/WLNE has almost always been a poor third in local news ratings from the time they went on the air on January 1st, 1963.
In this digital era, all of Providence's TV stations have equivalent signals, and in fact, WLNE's digital signal is transmitted from Rehobeth, just as WJAR's and WPRI's digital signals are. If you can receive one of the three with a clear over-the-air signal, you can usually get the other two just as strongly.
Perhaps now that their over-the-air signal in the market is the equal of it's rivals, maybe WLNE will be able to celebrate it's 50th anniversary year in 2013 by finally becoming fully competitive in local news (in terms of both resources and viewer popularity).
WTEV (now WLNE)'s analog signal was transmitted from a tower in Tiverton, Rhode Island, southeast of Providence and just north of the coastal resort town of Newport. WTEV/WLNE couldn't move it's analog tower any further to the north or closer to Providence (WJAR-10 and WPRI-12 transmit from Rehobeth, Massachusetts, which is east of Providence) because to do so would create significant interference to WCSH in Portland, Maine, also on Channel 6.
North of Providence, the WTEV/WLNE analog signal quickly dropped-off. In most of the Boston area, WJAR and WPRI's analog signals were easily picked-up on most TV sets. Not Channel 6.
With ABC's moving to first place in prime-time in 1976, the network thought they could finally realistically upgrade it's affiliate roster, and Providence was a major priority, given WTEV's signal problems.
Prior to 1977, many viewers in Providence and points north would watch ABC programs from Boston's WCVB-5 (since March, 1972, and from WNAC-7 between January of 1961 to March of 1972) because it had a clearer signal than the more "local" WTEV.
Due in large part to signal limitations, WTEV/WLNE has almost always been a poor third in local news ratings from the time they went on the air on January 1st, 1963.
In this digital era, all of Providence's TV stations have equivalent signals, and in fact, WLNE's digital signal is transmitted from Rehobeth, just as WJAR's and WPRI's digital signals are. If you can receive one of the three with a clear over-the-air signal, you can usually get the other two just as strongly.
Perhaps now that their over-the-air signal in the market is the equal of it's rivals, maybe WLNE will be able to celebrate it's 50th anniversary year in 2013 by finally becoming fully competitive in local news (in terms of both resources and viewer popularity).
- Status