Reception to the West

[Nu_Roo_2]

I was driving back to Columbus from Chicago late last Sunday, heading east on 70. I was surprised that I was able to get listenable reception on WNKO 101.7, WNNP 104.3, and even WTDA 103.9 quite a few miles before WODC 93.3 and WJKR 98.9. By the time I could start getting the latter two (especially 98.9) listenably, I was miles east of Springfield, and 101.7, 104.3 and 103.9 were all loud and clear.

This sure isn't what you'd expect based on the coverage maps. Have others had similar experience? To those of you who live in or near Springfield (I know there are at least a few), does this mirror your experiences?

 

[the marv]

101.7 with it's new transmitter usually does pull in pretty good out there. Sorta suprised you didn't get any interference from click 101.5. 104.3 has their transmitter in Marysville where Hot 105 used to broadcast from when they first came on the air. So they are only 25 miles from Springfield. You got lucky if you got WTDA in on 103.9 in that area since Dayton's WXEG happens to be on the same frequency. Used to be before WROU came on the air in 1991 you could listen to WCOL on a car radio till you got to the Eaton exit. WSNY was the same way till 94.5 signed on. WNCI varies daily that way since there is a radio station in Anderson Indiana that shares the frequency with them.

 

[schmave]

Interesting report ... I think that was a particularly clear night, too, which I am sure helped. 93.3 being among the later stations to come in surprises me; they have just about the best signal of all our FMs. I was in Springfield two weeks ago Tuesday night for work and it was pretty loud. People tend to overlook that Springfield is actually closer to Columbus than places such as Mount Vernon and Zanesville, but because it's part of the Dayton market Columbus media tends to be an afterthought down there.
On that drive down, WTDA lost the fight to WXEG at about the Clark/Madison line, almost exactly halfway between Dayton and Columbus. 103.5 gets out west really well; whereas it gets drowned out only 35 miles east of its tower because of Zanesville having stations on both 103.3 and 103.7, I heard Rewind until the South Vienna exit before WGRR started making waves.
I didn't even try for 98.9. Its signal is so bad that hearing K99.1 in some parts of Franklin County is not that difficult.

 

[Buckeyes2001]

On 93.3 you also have WAKW/Cincinnati. Were you getting co-channel interference on 93.3 from them until you were well east of Springfield? The 98.9 reception doesn't surprise me with country powerhouse WHKO on 99.1. On a trip to Cincinnati about 10 years ago, I lost 98.9 before Jeffersonville to WHKO, without IBOC.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

On 93.3 you also have WAKW/Cincinnati. Were you getting co-channel interference on 93.3 from them until you were well east of Springfield?

As I recall I lost WAKW before Springfield, and before I could get anything listenable from WODC. But I can;t swear to it. Can co-channel interference create a situation where there's nothing listenable at all, as opposed to some identifiable flipping between the signals?

 

[Buckeyes2001]

On 93.3 you also have WAKW/Cincinnati. Were you getting co-channel interference on 93.3 from them until you were well east of Springfield?

As I recall I lost WAKW before Springfield, and before I could get anything listenable from WODC. But I can;t swear to it. Can co-channel interference create a situation where there's nothing listenable at all, as opposed to some identifiable flipping between the signals?

I have observed that happen before where the 2 signals seem to cancel each other out and the apparent result is like nothing was there at all. Sometimes this happens here in Vermilion, OH with WJLB 97.9/Detroit and WNCI when both are virtually the same signal strength but neither signal is that strong. I'll post a question on the DX/reception board about this and see what other's observations are on this phenomenon.

 

[Buckeyes2001]

Did you try Q-FM 96 to see if you could get it west of Springfield? I remember hearing them in the Fairborn area (NE suburb of Dayton) rather clearly and WODC's signal range should be even larger than WLVQ's.

 

[schmave]

Did you try Q-FM 96 to see if you could get it west of Springfield? I remember hearing them in the Fairborn area (NE suburb of Dayton) rather clearly and WODC's signal range should be even larger than WLVQ's.

I've heard all the big Columbus FMs (93.3, 96.3, 97.1 and 97.9) driving up I-75 on the north side of Dayton, as in the Little York Road area. I have heard them decently well up to Sidney with some variations because of co-channel or adjacent interference.

 

[borderblaster]

I've heard QFM96 in much of the Dayton area, but adjacents in Hamilton on 96.5 and Richmond on 96.1 are an issue. The imaginary line between the Dayton and Springfield markets seems to be the Madison-Clark county line. I've never heard a Columbus station playing in a Springfield business.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Did you try Q-FM 96 to see if you could get it west of Springfield? I remember hearing them in the Fairborn area (NE suburb of Dayton) rather clearly and WODC's signal range should be even larger than WLVQ's.

I've heard all the big Columbus FMs (93.3, 96.3, 97.1 and 97.9) driving up I-75 on the north side of Dayton, as in the Little York Road area. I have heard them decently well up to Sidney with some variations because of co-channel or adjacent interference.

Yes, Q-FM-96 was coming in well around Fairborn. 97.1 and 97.9 were clear even before I got to the 75 interchange. I have made this trip several times, and as I recall WODC usually shows up a lot sooner. Maybe the night of the drive I was experiencing a 93.3 co-channel cancellation of the kind that Buckeyes2001 described.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

I've heard QFM96 in much of the Dayton area, but adjacents in Hamilton on 96.5 and Richmond on 96.1 are an issue. The imaginary line between the Dayton and Springfield markets seems to be the Madison-Clark county line. I've never heard a Columbus station playing in a Springfield business.

Maybe this is getting off-topic, but that reminds me of something else I've always wondered.  Namely, to what extent is the small amount of Cincy listening in Dayton and vice versa (for most stations, anyway) attributable to local-focus vs. reception?  I've always assumed it's more the former, especially in the car.

 

[borderblaster]

Of the FMs, only 94.9 and 96.5 have anything approaching a competitive signal in the south suburbs of Dayton. 94.9 has gotten a share or two at times depending on what format they were doing, but more because there were listeners who liked the format. A lot is going to depend on where diaries fall. Bringing it back to Columbus vs. Dayton, in London, OH the bigger Dayton stations still come in along with most of the Columbus signals. In Springfield, 92.3 has issues with 92.1, WNCI is still strong, 97.1 has K-Love's 96.9 next door, and 96.3 is string unless you run into Hamilton's 96.5. Dayton has beaten the idea of "Dayton-Springfield" into people's heads for decades, and Columbus pays no attention to anything west of I-270, so no real listening to Columbus signals there.

 

[almaniac27]

I've heard QFM96 in much of the Dayton area, but adjacents in Hamilton on 96.5 and Richmond on 96.1 are an issue. The imaginary line between the Dayton and Springfield markets seems to be the Madison-Clark county line. I've never heard a Columbus station playing in a Springfield business.

Maybe this is getting off-topic, but that reminds me of something else I've always wondered. Namely, to what extent is the small amount of Cincy listening in Dayton and vice versa (for most stations, anyway) attributable to local-focus vs. reception? I've always assumed it's more the former, especially in the car.

The Dayton station that shows up in Cincinnati books the most is WHKO, because it has a killer signal and good programming. A quick look at the ratings shows WGTZ, WFCJ, WZLR, WHIO and WROU showing up as well.

Also a small correction, WFTK 96.5 is licensed to Lebanon, not Hamilton.

 

[schmave]

Of the FMs, only 94.9 and 96.5 have anything approaching a competitive signal in the south suburbs of Dayton. 94.9 has gotten a share or two at times depending on what format they were doing, but more because there were listeners who liked the format. A lot is going to depend on where diaries fall. Bringing it back to Columbus vs. Dayton, in London, OH the bigger Dayton stations still come in along with most of the Columbus signals. In Springfield, 92.3 has issues with 92.1, WNCI is still strong, 97.1 has K-Love's 96.9 next door, and 96.3 is string unless you run into Hamilton's 96.5. Dayton has beaten the idea of "Dayton-Springfield" into people's heads for decades, and Columbus pays no attention to anything west of I-270, so no real listening to Columbus signals there.

I think it's safe to say Columbus media has more of a presence west of that Madison-Clark line than Dayton media has east of it. I am sure there are some people in Madison County, especially south of 70, who have taken advantage of being between both cities for the benefit of their viewing or listening habits, but probably not many. While Columbus TV has always been carried in Clark and Champaign counties and some Dayton stations are carried in Fayette, one county south of Madison, I'm pretty sure London and Marysville cable have never carried Dayton stations - at least not in the past 20 years - even though reception (at least pre-digital) was very possible.

 

[borderblaster]

I had forgotten that 96.5's COL was changed to Lebanon when 97.3 moved to Ft. Thomas.

Last I knew the big 3 Columbus stations were on Springfield's cable system in the 20s; how much viewership they have (except for Dayton network pre-emptions) they get I don't know. Places like Middletown and Lebanon get the larger signals from both Dayton and Cincinnati, radio-wise and I believe the network affiliates from both on cable.

 

[Buckeyes2001]

I noticed that Columbus TV stations particularly when doing severe weather broadcasts will show Clark and Greene counties and their newscasts sometimes will have stories coming from those areas but the Dayton stations don't show anything east of that Clark/Madison or Greene/Fayette county line when doing weather or news stories but they do show some of Indiana and show counties much further north. They also don't seem to go south of Warren County at all. If you lived in South Solon which is in Madison County but physically closer to Dayton, would you get cable channels from both markets then? These videos give you an idea of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsmRre96gsI&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0Z7jdwh2z4&fmt=18

 

[borderblaster]

The extreme east end of Greene County may have some Columbus stations on cable but most of the county does not. Columbus will mention weather to the west as it's going to be on the way to their viewing area. Once it's east of the Clark/Fayette line it's out of the area that's significantly viewing Dayton stations. Warren county is officially in the Dayton market (ADI), but as I recall Butler is in the Cincinnati market. Both markets will cover severe weather for Butler, Warren and Clinton counties. Wayne County IN is in Dayton's ADI, WHIO-TV's meteorologists do weather for WQLK radio. The coverage area of the Dayton signals on cable goes north to Mercer and Auglaize counties.

In the 70s, Dayton was a top 50 market and trying desperately to stay that way. Mercer County was one of the battleground counties, as it could be assigned to either Fort Wayne or Dayton. WHIO, WDTN and WKEF joined together to buy radio and newspaper ads in Mercer County to extol the advantages of Dayton TV. If a leaf moved in Mercer County, the news crews were on their way.

Bringing it back to radio, Butler, Warren and Clinton counties have their choice of the stronger Dayton signals and most of the Cincinnati stations.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

In the 70s, Dayton was a top 50 market and trying desperately to stay that way. Mercer County was one of the battleground counties, as it could be assigned to either Fort Wayne or Dayton. WHIO, WDTN and WKEF joined together to buy radio and newspaper ads in Mercer County to extol the advantages of Dayton TV. If a leaf moved in Mercer County, the news crews were on their way.

I wonder if the fact that Fort Wayne had the unusual distinction of having solely UHF TV stations put them at a disadvantage vs. Dayton with its two VHF's (2 and 7)? Some TV's had lousy UHF tuners well into the 70's, and combo outdoor VHF/UHF antennas usually provided better VHF reception. Speaking of Fort Wayne, I always found it interesting that they got their first independent broadcast station long before Columbus did. (Actually, I suppose the more relevant point is that it look Columbus ridiculously long to get its first independent.) As many of you know, Fort Wayne's independent (Channel 55) was initially owned by Great Trails of Dayton, the owner of WGTZ, WING, Columbus' WCOL-AM, WCOL-FM (later WXGT) and Springfield's WIZE.

 

[borderblaster]

Only one Fort Wayne station did a decent amount of Ohio border county coverage. Typical outdoor antenna set up in Mercer Co. was a VHF pointed to Dayton for 2 and 7, a UHF pointed to Ft. Wayne and a small UHF pointed toward Lima for WLIO. There was little off-air reception of 22 and at that time it wasn't even on the cable system. I remember WFFT coming on the air in Ft. Wayne.

 

[schmave]

I think Nu_Roo_2 makes a good point ... I am sure Dayton having stations on VHF did help. I remember when I had a small portable TV (10-inch if that) as a teen, when I took it to St. Marys I could never get a Fort Wayne station but the Dayton and Lima stations were cinch catches from the second floor of my grandparents' house. Borderblaster might be able to speak more to why Mercer and Auglaize counties no longer get Fort Wayne stations. It's been that way for at least five years, maybe longer. St. Marys used to get 21 and 55 from Fort Wayne on cable, but now that Lima has all four network affiliates the Fort Wayne stations are long gone.
South Solon does get Dayton and Columbus stations on cable, solely because its cable headends are in Clark and Greene counties. Columbus stations quit including Greene and Clinton counties on maps several years ago. 10 still includes Clark, Champaign, Logan and Hancock counties, but at least one other station (can't remember if it's 4 or 6) dropped Clark and Champaign off their weather maps a while back.
Dayton stations are guilty of ignoring pretty much anything east of U.S. 68, while Columbus stations will mention something big going on in Springfield, Urbana or Bellefontaine as quickly as something happening in Zanesville or Athens.