Record Ratings (7.4 6+) for KRTH

[briancraig]

Yes, Detroit was big on R&B crossovers as was St. Louis. Both cities have large black populations so would make sense. Which makes it strange that WLS and WCFL were so vanilla in such a diverse city as Chicago.

Interesting about the Florida markets. Atlanta, Charlotte, New Orleans, Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, Mobile were the Southern markets I was thinking of being so heavy on soul.

Even Knoxville, which is a very white city, was a good R&B market. RKO PD John Long in his bio talks about how he’d never worked at a top 40 station that played so much black music as WNOX. But that could have been because their 10kw directional night signal was so strong in the Carolinas.

RKO station WHBQ in Memphis would have played the most R&B of the Drake stations followed by KHJ and CKLW. WRKO in Boston was by far the whitest. Not sure about KFRC in the 1960s and 1970s, pre their 1980s churban era.

 

[Sixeye]

Have to throw this in because I am not seeing anyone else mention it. I've been listening to radio since the 1960s (egads!). I prefer radio to SXM, streaming and even the thousand plus songs on my phone. But, radio has turned me off because of the number of breaks and the length of the breaks. Too many commercials. Stations obviously are in it to make money. I'm in it to listen to music. There should be a balance there somewhere but the current balance has chased me off to SXM. Very sad.

 

[CTListener]

Have to throw this in because I am not seeing anyone else mention it. I've been listening to radio since the 1960s (egads!). I prefer radio to SXM, streaming and even the thousand plus songs on my phone. But, radio has turned me off because of the number of breaks and the length of the breaks. Too many commercials. Stations obviously are in it to make money. I'm in it to listen to music. There should be a balance there somewhere but the current balance has chased me off to SXM. Very sad.

So you actually preferred the '60s-style presentation of ads every couple of songs? I'd much rather hear a five-song set and either continue listening through the long ad break (knowing another four or five songs in a row are next) or push a preset and listen to music on another station while the ads play. The main station I listen to here (country format) has three breaks an hour, each about five minutes. I know when they run -- the station's clock hasn't changed in the 3 years I've been up here and listening -- and I have another station in my presets that uses a different ad clock.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Have to throw this in because I am not seeing anyone else mention it. I've been listening to radio since the 1960s (egads!). I prefer radio to SXM, streaming and even the thousand plus songs on my phone. But, radio has turned me off because of the number of breaks and the length of the breaks. Too many commercials. Stations obviously are in it to make money. I'm in it to listen to music. There should be a balance there somewhere but the current balance has chased me off to SXM. Very sad.

I bolded two sentences because they are at odds with each other.

If you've been a radio listener for that long, you certainly must see that we take far fewer breaks now than then. And fewer breaks mean that the same amount of commercial time has to fit into those fewer breaks, so they naturally are longer.

If you listen to SiriusXM, you're paying for it. If you listen to radio, the commercials pay for it.

 

[Sixeye]

Perhaps. In the 60s, I was obviously quite a bit younger and alternatives were few and far between. It would be interesting to know the ratio of song minutes to ad minutes in those years. Today, I find it hard to tolerate the current ratio. Ad breaks are too frequent and too long for me. Yes, I realize paying for SXM is in a way, an alternative to listening to the ads on OTA radio. One tradeoff btw, is that SXM audio quality *mostly* does not match OTA radio. And neither matches Bluetoothing (new verb ) songs on my phone to the car radio. Anyway, just wanted to throw out my own perspective. Your mileage may vary. We now have alternatives. I still love radio the most but it's so much harder for me to listen to these days.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Perhaps. In the 60s, I was obviously quite a bit younger and alternatives were few and far between. It would be interesting to know the ratio of song minutes to ad minutes in those years. Today, I find it hard to tolerate the current ratio. Ad breaks are too frequent and too long for me.

@davideduardo has addressed this in other threads. It isn't so much a change in the ratio as a number, it is the perception of their being an increase because of the unfortunate trend -- developed over decades -- of longer music sweeps which forced the consolidation of the commercial time into fewer breaks.

I'll take KHJ as an example, since you referred to the 1960s. Bill Drake insisted on breaks being no longer than three spots or a total of one minute, ten seconds ... and even at that, one spot had to be a live jock read. BUT there were two breaks in every quarter-hour, sweeps only taking place across the quarter-hour marks themselves, so you had a similar ratio of commercial minutes to music minutes.

And now that the toothpaste is long out of the tube, there's no way we will be able to go back. This is what audiences demanded, and now expect: Long music sweeps. Not song-break-song-break-song-song-break.

 

[Weiserguy]

@davideduardo has addressed this in other threads. It isn't so much a change in the ratio as a number, it is the perception of their being an increase because of the unfortunate trend -- developed over decades -- of longer music sweeps which forced the consolidation of the commercial time into fewer breaks.

I'll take KHJ as an example, since you referred to the 1960s. Bill Drake insisted on breaks being no longer than three spots or a total of one minute, ten seconds ... and even at that, one spot had to be a live jock read. BUT there were two breaks in every quarter-hour, sweeps only taking place across the quarter-hour marks themselves, so you had a similar ratio of commercial minutes to music minutes.

And now that the toothpaste is long out of the tube, there's no way we will be able to go back. This is what audiences demanded, and now expect: Long music sweeps. Not song-break-song-break-song-song-break.

The real difference is, back then, there was true talent on the air, creative people who often wove in the commercials in entertaining ways. They could do live reads that you weren't offended by, that didn't make you dive for a different preset as soon as they started. Commercials that entertained you, the listener. Even the pre-canned spots often were creatively written and produced. That's obviously not true for all spots, all jocks or newscasters, all stations. But it was true enough. Too often today, the spots sound like they were read by your aunt's boyfriend-from-Dah-Bronx Jerry, or they contain abominations like the 1-877-Kars-4-Kids jingles.

Anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about should locate a few Dan Ingram airchecks (or Gene Klavan, or Robert W. Morgan, or Dr. Don Rose) to see how it can sound when it's done right.

 

[TheBigA]

The real difference is, back then, there was true talent on the air,

There were also a lot fewer stations, and even fewer stations that mattered.

 

[michael hagerty]

The real difference is, back then, there was true talent on the air, creative people who often wove in the commercials in entertaining ways. They could do live reads that you weren't offended by, that didn't make you dive for a different preset as soon as they started. Commercials that entertained you, the listener. Even the pre-canned spots often were creatively written and produced. That's obviously not true for all spots, all jocks or newscasters, all stations. But it was true enough. Too often today, the spots sound like they were read by your aunt's boyfriend-from-Dah-Bronx Jerry, or they contain abominations like the 1-877-Kars-4-Kids jingles.

Anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about should locate a few Dan Ingram airchecks (or Gene Klavan, or Robert W. Morgan, or Dr. Don Rose) to see how it can sound when it's done right.

And----and this is HUGELY important:


The quality of ADVERTISERS was better.


In the 70s, we called it "beers, banks and airlines." Highly-rated stations in major markets were running mostly agency spots.

Here's what aired in the noon-1:00 p.m. hour with Charlie Tuna on KHJ February 27, 1970:

LEGAL ID (12:00 Noon)
Creedence Clearwater Revival-Proud Mary
Bobby Sherman-Easy Come, Easy Go

BREAK 1:
Burger King (LIVE COPY)
KHJ "Heavy Wheels" Promo (KHJ giving away a 1970 Pontiac Firebird filled with cash)

Simon & Garfunkel-Keep The Customer Satisfied

BREAK 2:
Sears Radial Tires
PSA: International Poster Show at California Museum of Science and Industry (LIVE COPY)

Dean Martin-Everybody Loves Somebody

BREAK 3:
Ford Motor Company Dealer Service Departments
WEATHER (LIVE)
Thom McAn Shoes (LIVE COPY-:10)

Jackson 5-ABC

BREAK 4:
Kentucky Fried Chicken

Elvis Presley-Kentucky Rain (LIVE "Heavy Wheels" promo over intro)

BREAK 5:
London Britches (local clothing store chain) (LIVE COPY)
Joseph Magnin

Marilee Rush & The Turnabouts-Angel of the Morning
Edison Lighthouse-Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes
LEGAL ID (12:30)
Jr. Walker & The All-Stars: Gotta Hold On To This Feeling

BREAK 6:
Kinney Shoes (LIVE COPY)
Delaney & Bonnie in Concert at Santa Monica Civic

Perez Prado-Patricia (LIVE "Heavy Wheels" promo over intro)

BREAK 7:
Burger King (LIVE COPY)

Three Dog Night-Celebrate

BREAK 8:
Robert Hall Clothiers (LIVE COPY)
PSA: Venice Free Clinic (LIVE COPY)
Friends of Distinction-Love or Let Me Be Lonely

BREAK 9:
Dodge Challenger
WEATHER (LIVE)
Miller High Life Beer

Bob Kuban & The In-Men: The Cheater

BREAK 10:
CONTAC Cold Relief
Thom McAn Shoes (LIVE COPY)

Vic Dana-If I Never Knew Your Name

BREAK 11
Zestabs Chewable Vitamins
Tashan Super Skin Creme

Jaggerz: The Rapper

BREAK 12
Jeans West (local clothing chain) (LIVE COPY)

Little Anthony & The Imperials: Hurt So Bad

LEGAL ID (1:00 PM)



Sixteen records, 12 commercial breaks, 18 pieces of commercial copy.

Only ONE instance of two in a row and one of three in a row (with an ID in between the second and third record). The rest of the hour was one record followed by a spot break.

BUT---set aside the live reads, and ALL of it was highly-produced agency work, with one exception---the Delaney and Bonnie spot was Don Steele cold voice with reverb.

And the high quality of the products and production (plus the fact that copy was often revised at least monthly and sometimes weekly in those days) cut way down on the irritation factor.

If you want to hear what it sounded like:

 

[CTListener]

Was the placement of "Kentucky Rain" right after the KFC ad intentional or serendipity?

 

[michael hagerty]

Was the placement of "Kentucky Rain" right after the KFC ad intentional or serendipity?

Tuna's dead, so we'll never know.

 

[michael hagerty]

A PS to the piece about the Charlie Tuna hour:

Not only did you hear mostly high-quality spots, you heard a LOT of Charlie Tuna. There was only one break that he wasn't either in, reading live copy, or taking you out of, over the intro to the next record:

BREAK 11
Zestabs Chewable Vitamins
Tashan Super Skin Creme

Jaggerz: The Rapper

They jingled out of that stop-set into the record.

And---if you liked Charlie Tuna, that reduced the perception of interrruption. After all, Charlie was there, and he didn't change into "announcer reading copy mode"---he stayed in character. He was about as entertaining reading the live copy as he was talking up the intro of a record.

But Charlie Tunas don't grow on trees. He was something of a standout even then (which is why KHJ gave him mornings when Morgan left for Chicago).

In the hands of most jocks, this hour wouldn't sound as good. For people who were tuned in to hear the hits and not Bob Bitchin' (made-up air name. i haven't had coffee yet. just roll with it), this was a ridiculous level of interruption.

Which is why stations---including KHJ, the following year---began clustering the spots into longer, fewer breaks.

 

[davideduardo]

Which is why stations---including KHJ, the following year---began clustering the spots into longer, fewer breaks.

Another reason... by that time, Arbitron was beginning to be the most followed ratings service at agencies and big accounts. Along the way, some people in radio figured out that it was essential to preserve as much of each quarter hour as possible to get credit for it... at least the first five or six minutes and the last five or six minutes had to be "clean", making most stations locate stops at about 7 minutes into each QH.

The 1970 "log" you present represented the "old" way of spreading spots around the hour so that music was always "nearby".

The heritage ratings, Pulse and Hooper, did not use quarter hour based diaries where "precise" (said with a sarcastic giggle, of course) listening times were entered in writing. They used personal interviews in home or on the phone.

While Arbitron took years to be accepted as the premier ratings service... that became definitive when, in the early 70's they unified national survey dates... once the dam broke, everyone rushed to try to optimize those quarter hours. A good example of how this was done can be seen in "The Last Contest" first done at KCBQ and using a system based on optimizing diary behaviour by listeners.

Google AI says:

Jack McCoy, KCBQ's program director, created "The Last Contest" in the early 1970s as a large-than-life, immersive promotion that blurred the lines between fantasy and reality through its compelling and dramatic storytelling. McCoy personally wrote and voiced many of the promotional spots, aiming to make the prize announcements outrageous and imaginative enough to captivate listeners and make them feel as though they were winning.

The now very, very busy Mr. Huff can perhaps give us his ratings services vs. programming techniques analysis if he has a moment.

 

[Huff]

While Arbitron took years to be accepted as the premier ratings service... that became definitive when, in the early 70's they unified national survey dates

That was the April/May 1971 survey... the American Research Bureau (ARB) was in the seventh year of growing its new radio ratings service and nearing the 150-market mark. With all of its markets surveyed across the same dates, it was the first time any ratings service was able to offer a national ratings "sweep" for radio like what TV had.

 

[davideduardo]

That was the April/May 1971 survey... the American Research Bureau (ARB) was in the seventh year of growing its new radio ratings service and nearing the 150-market mark. With all of its markets surveyed across the same dates, it was the first time any ratings service was able to offer a national ratings "sweep" for radio like what TV had.

You hit on a very important subject: the "sweep".

Arbitron mostly sold itself to agencies. It took time, but once they had the sweep replicated in radio, they won over the majority of agency buyers. So stations gradually lessened their usage of any other service. The Pulse hung in the longest, lasting until around 1978 when it's last book (San Juan, PR) was issued.

The lesson here is that ratings are only as good as their acceptance by time buyers.

 

[michael hagerty]

So let's do this---let's look at Noon-1PM on KHJ after the clusters were implemented.

What's available that I can find is actually 1:30-2:26, but it's the same daypart and likely the same clock as noon-1. It's Mark Elliott on July 22, 1971.

LEGAL ID (1:30 pm)

Barbra Streisand-Where You Lead
Kris Kristofferson-Loving You Was Easier (Than Anything I'll Ever Do Again)

BREAK 1 (at 1:36)
Coppertone
Gino's Restaurant (LIVE COPY INSIDE DONUT JINGLE)
Volkswagen

Sweet Inspirations-Sweet Inspiration
Marvin Gaye-Stubborn Kind of Fellow

BREAK 2 (at 1:43)
Sears
Natural Wonder Lip Gloss/Natural Wonder Oil-Free Makeup (back-to-back 30s)
PSA: Puppet show at L.A. Valley College (LIVE COPY)
WEATHER (LIVE)

Three Dog Night-Liar
Bill Withers-Ain't No Sunshine

BREAK 3 (at 1:50)
Wyler's Lemonade
Dentyne Chewing Gum
Baby Magic Tanning Oil

Carly Simon-That's The Way I've Always Heard It Should Be
Graham Nash-Chicago
LEGAL ID (2:00 pm)
Five Man Electrical Band-Signs
Rod Stewart-Reason To Believe

BREAK 4 (at 2:07)
Big White Steamship Cruises to Catalina (LIVE COPY)
Hot Pants Cologne
Movie: Red Sky at Morning

Jackson 5-I'll Be There
(SWEEPER: "Number One Then and Number One Now")
Bee Gees-How Can You Mend A Broken Heart

BREAK 5 (at 2:17)
Natural Wonder Lip Gloss
Thrifty Drug and Discount Stores (LIVE COPY with recorded tag)
WEATHER (LIVE)

Chase-Get It On
Gladys Knight & The Pips-I Don't Want To Do Wrong

BREAK 6 (at 2:25)
Lemon Up Shampoo

The tape runs out there, but we know what happens. The spot break had two more elements, a song played, and we're back where we started at the bottom of the hour legal ID.

So what did we actually get there?

Well, 16 songs in Charlie Tuna's more cluttered hour in February of 1970 is 15 songs here. Blame increasing song lengths.

The number of commercial breaks has been cut in half---from 12 down to 6, so you always have a minimum of two songs in a row...but even then, that's only six or seven minutes to the next commercial.

The longest uninterrupted sweep of music is 14 minutes, as long as you don't count the legal ID at 2:00 p.m. as an interruption.

There's also less live copy.

Now, I'm a big fan of Mark Elliott as a jock, but even he would agree, he wasn't a personality like Charlie Tuna. So, on the one hand, pleasant voice doing the bare minimum with an occasional side of wit is a good thing, but---not hearing him as much increases the perception of the interruption.

You might see this as the slippery slope to seven-minute spot breaks, but there's a reason for that. This clearly wasn't far enough.

 

[Mark Roberts]

And----and this is HUGELY important:


The quality of ADVERTISERS was better.

I couldn't agree more.

Here's what aired in the noon-1:00 p.m. hour with Charlie Tuna on KHJ February 27, 1970:
{...}
BREAK 2:
Sears Radial Tires

That tells you something right there. Sears.

BREAK 8:
{...}
PSA: Venice Free Clinic (LIVE COPY)
Friends of Distinction-Love or Let Me Be Lonely

Please tell me that juxtaposition was a coincidence.

(You just know that, having lived in both Houston and San Francisco, I would zero in on that...um...coincidental placement.)

And the high quality of the products and production (plus the fact that copy was often revised at least monthly and sometimes weekly in those days) cut way down on the irritation factor.

I think I really knew when things were going downhill with the quality of advertisers was one night in Chicago in 1997, hailing a taxi with a friend at about 2 in the morning and then, hearing in the taxi, a spot for some product with "PHERONOMES".

On WBBM-FM. On a station owned by the then still mighty CBS, fercryingoutloud.

Sure, it was 2 am. But it was a salient.

 

[michael hagerty]

Please tell me that juxtaposition was a coincidence.

Tuna's line coming out of the PSA and into the Friends of Distinction was:


"Friends of Distinction. Love or...go on to your Planned Parenthood meeting."

 

[michael hagerty]

I couldn't agree more.


That tells you something right there. Sears.

If you want to talk about an even stronger roster of clients, look at KMPC. This is an hour of Geoff Edwards in November of 1973. This is a personality Adult Contemporary station---they're not aiming for long music sweeps here.

LEGAL ID/NEWS (10:00 AM)
News sponsor: Vons Supermarkets
BREAK 1 (10:05 AM-Adjacent to newscast)
Glendale Federal Savings

Fortunes-Here Comes That Rainy Day Feeling Again

BREAK 2
Costa Viva Condominiums, Mission Bay, San Diego (LIVE COPY)

Sonoma-Love For You

BREAK 3
KMart Fisher Price Toys (LIVE COPY inside donut jingle)
WEATHER (LIVE)
The Los Angeles Times
California Federal Savings (LIVE COPY)

(Call-in phone bit---"Radio's Beloved Answer Lady". Geoff gives smart-ass answers to listener questions. Although it's the "answer lady", Geoff uses his usual voice. A weekly feature---Dan Sorkin did it daily as "Ask Bernard" at KSFO.)

BREAK 4
Norbest Turkeys

Ian Thomas-Painted Ladies

BREAK 5
Datsun (now Nissan)
Channel 5 Evening Movie "The Young Lions" (LIVE COPY with movie dialogue)
NEWS (10:31 AM)
WEATHER (LIVE from Geoff)
Las Vegas Convention And Visitors Authority (LIVE COPY)

Cher-Half-Breed

BREAK 6
Bob's Big Boy Restaurants (LIVE COPY follows 30-second jingle to make a :60)
Pacific Southwest Airlines (known as PSA)
Coldwell Banker Realtors

Englebert Humperdinck-A Man Without Love

BREAK 7
MOVIE: Ash Wednesday
Sears

(Geoff blows off two records to take listener calls about a possible proposal not to drive on Sundays---this was the beginning of the first Arab Oil Crisis.)

BREAK 8
Hollywood Refrigeration (LIVE COPY)

Ronnie Aldrich-Ride My See-Saw

BREAK 9
Red Pack Tomatoes (LIVE COPY in a jingle donut)
Forest Lawn Mortuary
LEGAL ID/NEWS (11:00 AM)

 

[michael hagerty]

I couldn't agree more.


That tells you something right there. Sears.

I won't do the full rundown, but there's a 12:00 a.m.-1:00 a.m. Johnny Williams aircheck from this same date. It has spots for Pan Am and Hillcrest Cadillac.

Hillcrest ran in all dayparts because it was owned by Willett Brown, RKO board member, owner of KGB, San Diego and Hillcrest furnished cars to KHJ execs, so that was a tradeout.

As for the Pan Am spot, well, just turn this up and let it wash over you:

NOBODY puts that kind of effort into 60-second radio advertising anymore.

And I'd hate to meet the sorry SOB who'd punch out of this: