Reith Show Cancelled on WCNY

[The Voice of Reason]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....ls_reith_show_after.html#incart_river_default

Since when was public TV interested in ratings? I thought it was all about content?

 

[BobRoss]

Can't blame ratings, at least not fairly. If WCNY even subscribes to Nielsen, "Reith" debuted in the middle of the May book, so you can't really use that book. Many people consider the July as a "throwaway" since overall viewership is always down in the summer. That leaves November as Reith's only serious, "full" sweeps period... and those diaries are still being processed. If you want to go by ratings alone, I think WCNY should have at least waited for November's numbers to be used as a true baseline, and perhaps even February for a comparison to November.

Of course, when it comes to public TV, you can have all the ratings in the world, but that doesn't matter if the pledge drive phones go silent during that timeslot, or if the big-money underwriters aren't opening up their checkbooks.

Personally, I used to listen to Reith every day on my drive home from work, but I rarely ever caught the TV show. The radio show was always there every day on my drive home from work... when you're in the car, there's not much else to do but listen to the radio. But by 6:30pm, I've already been home for a couple of hours, and most nights, not watching TV at that time.

When WCNY announced Reith's arrival in the spring, they promised a radio show would come along, but not until the fall, and not on WCNY-FM, but on WCNY-HD3. As for the "fall" date, I'm guessing Reith could have been under a year-long radio non-compete as a condition of his severance from Clear Channel. The HD3 channel assignment was due to WCNY not wanting to break away from the classical music format on its main FM channel. Frankly, I think Reith on WCNY-FM could have generated bigger audiences and more pledges than Reith on TV, more than Reith on an HD3 channel, and more than the classical music currently on the main FM. Across town, WAER is primarily known as a jazz station, but they break format to carry NPR talk shows like Morning Edition and All Things Considered, and you don't see jazz fans getting all up in arms about it. Break the format, live a little.

To put it another way, while I tune in to public stations now and then, I've never found myself to be enough of a fan to make the effort to call in a pledge... but if WCNY had put Reith on its main FM signal, I'm pretty sure I would have listened every day, and finally called in that first pledge.

Before any of this even happened, however, I think Citadel/Cumulus should have snapped up Reith right after he got axed at WSYR, when 105.9 was still a talk station. Sure, they would have had to pay a pretty penny to convince Reith to forfeit his severance package, but the investment could have paid off. Clear Channel said Reith's ratings were going down... well, sure they were... when WSYR instituted "traffic and weather on the tens" during afternoon drive, it screwed up the entire show. Just when an otherwise decent interview was hitting its stride, it was time for traffic and weather again.

So now what? I don't see WFBL coming up with the cash to lure Reith over there. I have a feeling that either WRVO or WAER could, but won't. What else is left at this point?

 

[W2JUV_AL]

Reith on WCNY-HD3 never had a chance. You can count the number of HD receivers in Syracuse on one hand.

 

[Tincap]

The HD3 channel assignment was due to WCNY not wanting to break away from the classical music format on its main FM channel. Frankly, I think Reith on WCNY-FM could have generated bigger audiences and more pledges than Reith on TV, more than Reith on an HD3 channel, and more than the classical music currently on the main FM. Across town, WAER is primarily known as a jazz station, but they break format to carry NPR talk shows like Morning Edition and All Things Considered, and you don't see jazz fans getting all up in arms about it. Break the format, live a little.

Sure, that's currently working for CBC Radio 2, isn't it? Sometimes -even on radio-, it's not about the numbers, but the quality of the content.

To put it another way, while I tune in to public stations now and then, I've never found myself to be enough of a fan to make the effort to call in a pledge... but if WCNY had put Reith on its main FM signal, I'm pretty sure I would have listened every day, and finally called in that first pledge.

I'm one of the numerous Canadians who is a pledging member of WCNY Classic FM (WJNY 90.9 Watertown) and put my money where my mouth is, to keep an American 24/7 classical music station on the air.

If Mr. Reith does have a strong presence and following, in the Syracuse area, perhaps he'll return to the airwaves in a venue that is more compatible to the type of programming which he presents. WRVO, for example. But, to suggest that those of us fighting to keep classical music on the air, wouldn't be "all up in arms" about gutting a truly alternative music source, for yet another news/info/talk program on the public radio air-waves, is a misnomer.

~BG

 

[TheBigA]

I've been involved in several attempts of moving radio shows to TV. It's never easy, for many reasons. First of all, TV needs moving pictures to make it compelling. Just a straight talk show on TV isn't very compelling, and it's proven every day on C-SPAN. It's a great idea, and this person may be a great host, with a known brand in Syracuse. But in the end, it costs a whole lot more to do TV than radio. To do this as a daily local show had to be a huge undertaking, and perhaps a lot bigger than this station could handle.

 

[therealjm12]

I caught Michael Savage a couple times when he was on MSNBC. I am not a fan but thought it would be interesting considering it was him. It was not. The set consisted of him in a chair next to a table with a phone on it and the potted plant in the background. Not exactly compelling television. Looked like public access. Yes, it is rare when radio works on TV. The only examples I can think of are Arthur Godfrey and maybe Stephanie Miller.

 

[TheBigA]

It's interesting when you see the work and expense that goes into Imus on Fox Business, Dan Patrick on NBC Sports Net, and Mike & Mike on ESPN2. Those are all radio shows done on TV. The way they make it interesting is a lot of quick cuts on the cameras, a lot of video inserts, and a lot of people in the studio. And even then, it's just radio on TV. I didn't see this show on WCNY, but I doubt very much they took the time or expense that those three other shows have done.

 

[BobRoss]

It's interesting when you see the work and expense that goes into Imus on Fox Business, Dan Patrick on NBC Sports Net, and Mike & Mike on ESPN2. Those are all radio shows done on TV. The way they make it interesting is a lot of quick cuts on the cameras, a lot of video inserts, and a lot of people in the studio. And even then, it's just radio on TV. I didn't see this show on WCNY, but I doubt very much they took the time or expense that those three other shows have done.

Here's the thing with those guys. Yes, they have multiple cameras and they do quick cuts, which is nice. But in all three cases, you're also watching a real, live radio show, which already has a nationwide following. For each cable TV network, rigging up some cameras and hiring one or two "TV-centric" producers is cheaper than hiring an entirely separate team of talent, producers and crew to create original content. So, even if the shows don't get big ratings on TV, the networks don't mind, since they aren't spending that much.

Not to mention, Fox, NBC and ESPN have enormous video libraries at their disposal. In order to put a radio show on TV, you only need to install a boatload of fixed cameras, a director to switch the cameras, and a producer to make sure it's as "TV-centric" as possible. That means sitting in on show prep meetings to find out what topics are going to be discussed, and then hunting through the video library to see if there are any relevant video clips that can play over the conversation, so it's not just on-camera for the entire morning. For example, you know the morning after a big game, you'll need clips of some of the big plays people will be talking about. It's pretty easy to include video when you're prepared with likely-to-be-used clips on standby.

And since many TV operations are now tapeless, it's probably a lot easier for a producer to pull file tape of things that weren't discussed in advance... for example, if a caller takes the conversation in some other direction and the host decides to go with it. Everything could (or should) be readily available with a quick computer search, as opposed to having someone physically locate a tape in some distant basement archive that might not even be located in the same building.

By contrast, Reith was doing a TV-only show, and since WCNY doesn't cover local news on a daily basis, I'm guessing they don't have a massive video archive of various events, places and lawmakers to supplement the conversations. Maybe they have a little bit of this and that, but likely not enough to confidently be able to cover segments in every show.

At one time, it looked like WSYR-TV was going to simulcast Galuski's morning show and Reith's afternoon show (from WSYR radio) on their 9.2 channel. You could even see their names for a short time, on the on-screen programming guide available through Time Warner Cable's converter boxes. Kind of strange that it got that far; gives you the impression that there was some last-minute change. Not sure why they shelved it, but they did.

Not sure if I could see WRVO making the move. Sure, they could afford Reith, but I doubt they'd ditch the existing NPR fare to make way. I just can't see it happening. I still think Citadel/Cumulus missed a golden opportunity when 105.9 was still a talk station. If they had picked up Reith, and installed a local news operation to compete with WSYR's newsroom, they could have had a chance. But that train left the station long ago, and it isn't coming back.

 

[TheBigA]

If they had picked up Reith, and installed a local news operation to compete with WSYR's newsroom, they could have had a chance. But that train left the station long ago, and it isn't coming back.

That concept is struggling to meet expenses in larger markets, much less Syracuse.

 

[jiminCT]

Reith, while quite thoughtful and certainly left-of-center in his beliefs, COULD be an asset to an NPR station locally...however WRVO or WAER would have to carefully consider the cost vs. what he would really add as far as additional revenue) Colin McEnroe in the Hartford market made the transition from the 50,000 watt blowtorch WTIC-1080 (he was fired and replaced by the ex Republican governor John Rowland), however his show is only an hour. Reith has had a long run on Syracuse radio, however the slots available for his type of show are very limited. Additionally, his shows are very Syracuse oriented...which really is his niche. If WSYR ever splits off from 106.9...or a format change of any of the other stations which includes talk, he may be able to resume a normal career in the Syracuse market. If his ratings were dismal on non-commercial, he's going to have a difficult time for the time being until a local station changes programming.
Just MHO...

 

[Bob1370]

"That concept (news and talk mixing local with national content) is struggling to meet expenses in larger markets, much less Syracuse"

It's alive and well in Rochester.

What CNY needs to do is find another wide market coverage signal to put its news and public affairs programming on, while,it keeps its FM essentially a classical music outlet. The opportunity will probably arise sooner or later in Central New York. Clear Channel will be looking to raise more cash as it works to cut its debt load in the next two years by selling properties marginal to its core, and that means a signal like WHEN/620 is likely to be on the block. That signal will probably be available at an affordable price, and if it happens, CNY should pounce. That's where people llike Jim Reith could be side by side with Diane Rehm and Neal Conan and build a Central New York talk franchise.

 

[therealjm12]

I think if WCNY was interested in AM -which I don't believe they are, Leatherstocking's AM's would be a better value. You'd get WFBL 1390 for Syracuse, WMCR 1600 in Oneida, and WUTI (formally WRUN) in Utica. It would cover all of Central N. Y. and I bet they would be a bargain.

 

[BobRoss]

I think if WCNY was interested in AM -which I don't believe they are, Leatherstocking's AM's would be a better value. You'd get WFBL 1390 for Syracuse, WMCR 1600 in Oneida, and WUTI (formally WRUN) in Utica. It would cover all of Central N. Y. and I bet they would be a bargain.

I don't believe WCNY wants anything to do with AM either, nor do I see them trying to get into the talk radio genre. But you're right about the trio being a value. Awhile back, there was a broker advertisement for "five upstate stations" for sale. The ad didn't mention specific stations, but Leatherstocking was the only group that fit the description. IIRC, asking price was around $5 Million. Can't find the ad now, but as the saying goes, anything's for sale for the right price.

I would guess Leatherstocking wants out because it's tough to turn a profit on the AMs, even though they run 100% syndicated content. The stations never seem to generate much for ratings, and perhaps that's because the schedule is mostly second- and third-tier talent, as a result of the fact that "CNY Talk" spans two markets, both of which already have a dominant talk station. CNY Talk can't sign anyone who's already on WSYR in Syracuse or WIBX in Utica. For example, people like Clark Howard and Kim Komando are not currently heard in Syracuse, and could generate some interest for WFBL, but they're off-limits to CNY Talk because these two hosts are already on WIBX.

But back to WCNY, I don't see them trying to get into talk radio. It would be unwise to buy stations to build a talk format, since WRVO pretty much has the NPR news/talk audience covered. What could WCNY offer on a proposed AM news/talk station that WRVO doesn't already provide? WRVO already has Diane Rehm and Neal Conan and all the other top NPR talk shows. Reith might fill a 3 or 4 hours a day, but there's still 20 more hours of programming needed to fill an entire day. It wouldn't make sense for WCNY to launch an AM-based news/talk format if most of it simply duplicates WRVO's offerings on the FM dial.

While writing, I even considered WRVO possibly buying the Leatherstocking stations to make its "WRVO-2" channel available over the air without the need for an HD Radio receiver, and perhaps Reith could fit in there. But I just don't see that happening either. Even though $5M is relatively low for 5 radio stations, I don't see a public broadcaster spending that much when the payoff (in terms of new/increased listener pledges) likely won't provide a return on investment -- at least not in a timeframe that would be considered worthwhile.

 

[jiminCT]

Just a thought...in Springfield MA/Amherst....WNNZ 640 basically became the defacto NPR talk arm for WFCR when 88.5 went to the classical format. So in essence...in a market quite similar in size to Syracuse, this format from NPR has translated well and continues to survive. This was a sports station prior w Yankee games...so could Syracuse pull this off? I'm thinking yes.