Religion gets another AM 540 WLIE

[LinoNYC]

Radio & records reports "Veteran broadcaster Charlie Banta’s Principle Broadcasting Network will pay $12 million for WLIE-AM/Islip, N.Y. The deal was announced Jan. 4, a few days after Principle Broadcasting took over the business/talk outlet from Long Island Multi-Media in a lease management agreement.

This station has a weak but in-the-clear presence here in NYC. Too bad.

I post it here as yet another local example of the "short-waving" of the once-dominant broadcast band.

For those who say that AM digital is "too little, too late" or that it should be "left alone" -this is what you can expect.

http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRWebSite/

Lino

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

And what makes you think digital will reverse the problem caused by BAD PROGRAMMING, Lino?

The leased-access station that wants to go IBOC will go ahead and do it, and still keep the guaranteed revenue/low overhead format that is such brokered programming.

Take a listen to WDCD 1540 in the Albany/Schenectady/Troy metro area as an example of what I'm talking about.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Just as any good snake oil, HD radio can cure anything!
Just swallow the HD radio "cure all".

 

[LinoNYC]

And what makes you think digital will reverse the problem caused by BAD PROGRAMMING, Lino?

The leased-access station that wants to go IBOC will go ahead and do it, and still keep the guaranteed revenue/low overhead format that is such brokered programming.

Take a listen to WDCD 1540 in the Albany/Schenectady/Troy metro area as an example of what I'm talking about.

Here's the point, stations drift into religion/leased when they are no-longer viable, and this is caused by AM's inferior sound quality. Yes I grew up hearing AM in wideband hi-fi but then as now, most people listen to narrow, distorted and noise plagued reception.

Take the case of WMCA: 1960s -the #1 top-40 for most of the decade. 1970s with music less viable it turned to talk, after ninteen years of declining returns it was sold to religion in 1989. Today it has little, often no measureable audience and offers a mis-mash of bible hucksters and anything else that can pay the freight.

The AM dial, in market #1 is now full of such examples. Even the few remaining viable big-signal stations have ancient demos and the end is in sight.

You are in New York, you've seen what has happened to once viable AM signals, sound quality is the main culprit.

If any of the previous attempts at improving AM fidelity had "taken" we wouldn't be seeing the depressing slide into whoring and hucksterism.

I've posted real world examples of AM iboc, it ain't flawless but it does work.

This system bundled with it's FM counterpart is probably AM's last chance at viability.

Lino

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

No. Most of these stations are owned by groups and people who specialize in religious programming.

Let's see: Salem Media (religous), Crawford (religious), Radio Vision Cristiana (hispanic religious), Family Radio (non com religous), Principle Broadcasting (religious). And those are just off the top of my head.

And then there are groups like Multicultural Radio Broadcasting, which specialize in radio stations that can be rented out to programmers catering to ethnic communities (Chinese, Koreans, Haitians, Italians, etc.).

It doesn't mean the station is irrelevant, it just means it's catering to groups outside of the usual Anglophone news-talk-sports crowd.

WFAN/New York has been one of the top billing stations in the country for years way before IBOC came along. It always had a wonderful sound and signal. And I certainly wouldn't call its listenership ancient. Last I checked, teenagers and 20-year olds like sports too.

 

[WCWalker]

Bad programming causes people to leave the AM radio dial. IBOC is making matters worse and will drive even more people away from the stations negatively affected by stations utilizing IBOC. On the bright side, many Part 15 AM broadcasters that use the expanded band where IBOC is largely unused may actually gain a few listeners as people scan the dial to find a listenable signal.

There still are plenty of small Mom and Pop owned AM's in markets like Gloversville, NY, Dunkirk, NY, Beaver Falls, PA etc. that do quite well thanks to live and local programming. Perhaps if these mega corporations were willing to invest in live and local on air talent and programming we'd see more entertaining shows on AM stations in our metro areas.

 

[LinoNYC]

No. Most of these stations are owned by groups and people who specialize in religious programming.

Let's see: Salem Media (religous), Crawford (religious), Radio Vision Cristiana (hispanic religious), Family Radio (non com religous), Principle Broadcasting (religious). And those are just off the top of my head.

You're noticing the symptom and ignoring the disease.

These stations are being sold to religion and leased time operators because their owners see declining income, aging demos, no young future listeners, like other businessmen, they cut their losses and sell while they can.

This is occuring across the nation, it's not limited to New York.

The stations that go ethnic are the luckier ones, they atleast have interested listeners...unless an FM takes the format.

Lino

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

There still are plenty of small Mom and Pop owned AM's in markets like Gloversville, NY, Dunkirk, NY,

Don't forget the world famous WIRY 1340 in Plattsburgh, NY. ;D ;D

 

[awj223]

I've posted real world examples of AM iboc, it ain't flawless but it does work.

No. The problem with IBOC, at least iBiquity's version of it, is that it does not work. It makes the sound quality worse, it interferes with other stations inside their NIF contours, and from what I've heard it only decodes 20-50 miles out at night even on class A flamethrowers. Whatever the solution is, it ain't HD Radio. The losses are greater than the gains with that broken system, and now the suits at Citadel have taken notice.

You're noticing the symptom and ignoring the disease.

These stations are being sold to religion and leased time operators because their owners see declining income, aging demos, no young future listeners, like other businessmen, they cut their losses and sell while they can.

This is occuring across the nation, it's not limited to New York.

The stations that go ethnic are the luckier ones, they atleast have interested listeners...unless an FM takes the format.

Lino

And you completely ignored StephanieNYC's comment about WFAN. You should also hear the callers on San Francisco's KNBR. Some of them aren't old enough to drive.

 

[Mike Walker]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that any of AM's ills are caused by poor sound quality. The migration of AM's audience hit OVERDRIVE when AM stations began changing formats! Large, big-signal AMs that abandoned top 40/rock formats would probably kill now to have back the audience they ABANDONED!

PROGRAMMING WINS LISTENERS! I've worked on AMs, and FMs, and I'm telling you...an audience can be built, and maintained on EITHER if the programming is something people want to hear!

Hell, Rush Limbaugh is actually an example of this (perish the thought!) Find an audience, preferably a sizable one, that isn't being served, and HAVE AT IT! Just because conservative talk was "found" as an unserved audience that was viable for AM doesn't mean it's the ONLY viable, unserved audience by a long shot!

Here's an idea (off the top of my head). Approximately 10 percent of the population is gay. Is there a station specifically programmed to gay people in your market? TEN PERCENT is pretty freakin' great market share! In certain markets the Muslim community represents a double-digit market share. Is anyone attempting to program to them? Is there a station in your market that carries left-wing talk? 50 percent of America votes "D" on election day!

Is there a station in your market that plays adult standards? America is aging...that's a VIABLE market! How about a traditional oldies station? WCBS-FM learned the value of not abandoning that SIZABLE market! New technology is great, but technology (analog, digital, terrestrial, satellite, internet, whatever) is just a method of delivering PROGRAMMING that people (hopefully) want to hear. The solution to ANY audience problem (except if your signal is really crappy, and doesn't cover the market) is PROGRAMMING! Have we forgotten how to create?

 

[Mike Walker]

Am I the only one here who finds irony in the call leters of this new religious station? After all, WLIE could well adop the slogan "The Big Lie!"

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

They'd be smart to return to WLUX. At least that they can tie into something like "The Light 54" or whatever.

Or maybe LUX Radio...we clean your brain out.

 

[LinoNYC]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that any of AM's ills are caused by poor sound quality. The migration of AM's audience hit OVERDRIVE when AM stations began changing formats! Large, big-signal AMs that abandoned top 40/rock formats would probably kill now to have back the audience they ABANDONED!

Hell, Rush Limbaugh is actually an example of this (perish the thought!) Find an audience, preferably a sizable one, that isn't being served, and HAVE AT IT! Just because conservative talk was "found" as an unserved audience that was viable for AM doesn't mean it's the ONLY viable, unserved audience by a long shot!

Why do you think that stations dropped top-40 and later even oldies? In every instance where an FM adopted a popular AM format, it won! This can't still be news.

Limbaugh is again a symptom of what happened when AM was no-longer viable with young listeners. First with "nostalgia" formats then oldies and finally, right wing talk aimed the remaining angry, old listeners.

WABC legendary Top-40, went into decline as FM took it's audience, went talk 25 years ago and coasted on that audience untill it now finds itself with the oldest listeners in the market.

Is there a station in your market that plays adult standards? America is aging...that's a VIABLE market!

There was, WQEW it died due to aging demos and an offer from Radio Disney.

I read you niche suggestions, bear in mind that any promising format especially music will get picked up by FM. Reason: better sound quality.

As one AM operator said on this forum, they survive by "flying below the radar".

Lino

 

[Mike Walker]

Don't lecture me about radio history. I lived it. I SAW viable AMs change formats again and again, exchanging large audiences for small ones. AM listenership reached as low as 12 percent in the late 80s (down from 50 percent in 1982) because of this. In the mid-80s when this madness began, AMs were NOT DYING, they were only facing fierce competition. Once the "format of the month club" began, it was YEARS before many stations were profitable again. Yes conservative talk helped. But that doesn't mean it's the only viable format!

Ask someone at WFAN how they would like to have the same numbers they abandoned in the last book as WNBC! Yes they're profitable. But they have NEVER been particularly highly rated since they abandoned music. And your example of WABC proves my point. WABC (and others) have no young listeners because they have nothing young people could stand to listen to!

Sound quality? Most listening during daytime hours is on small, mono radios where AM and FM sound pretty much alike. People are routinely choosing low bitrate (but free) mp3s over cds, which sound FAR better! Podcasts, which often sound like faw sewage, are largely popular BECAUSE THEY OFFER SOMETHING PEOPLE CAN'T FIND ON RADIO. People will find the programming that appeals to them, wherever it is. And if an AM station is live, local, relatable, with personalities who are IN YOUR FACE every time you turn around, LOCAL NEWS, and clever promotion, they can beat these freakin' jukebox FMs.

I'm old enough to remember when radio was relatable, unpredictable, local, and FUN! Perhaps instead of lecturing about radio history to those who have lived it, you should listen to some of those old WABC/WNBC/WLS/KHJ/WLAC/WCFL/WAYS/WAPE/WTOB/WAIR/WISE/WQXI/CKLW airchecks and hear WHY these stations were so successful! By the way, we had FM then too! Some damn creative FM. And AM stations routinely beat FM for MANY years, even when the FM carried a similar format.

 

[LinoNYC]

Don't lecture me about radio history. I lived it.

Sorry Father Radio, I meant no offense.

However,,,

Ask someone at WFAN how they would like to have the same numbers they abandoned in the last book as WNBC! Yes they're profitable. But they have NEVER been particularly highly rated since they abandoned music.

A statement such as this shows that you don't know the facts in this instance. In short, WNBC was sold by it's new parent company that had no interest in radio. The entity that bought it was going to put sports blab on it, previous WNBC ratings (weren't great btw) did not matter.

And your example of WABC proves my point. WABC (and others) have no young listeners because they have nothing young people could stand to listen to!

WABC went talk because it's corporate owner had seen the longterm decline of AM as a music medium and decided to launch a talk network. I do agree that WABC had better demographics at the time of the switch than they have ever had since. However they had already ceded the 'teen audience to FM and were an AC before spring 1982.

I have been told that ABC Corporate was mindful of how NBC's News and Information Service (NIS) had failed in less than 3 years and that many believed it would have had a better chance if it had been carried on their flagship AM 660.

BTW: NIS was excellent I listened constantly, it had a personable, sophisticated delivery and ofcourse the resources of NBC News. But it was carried on their FM which was plagued by low modulation and severe multipath.

Sound quality? Most listening during daytime hours is on small, mono radios where AM and FM sound pretty much alike.

Under good noise free conditions I agree but in the majority of cases FM works better for music.

I'm old enough to remember when radio was relatable, unpredictable, local, and FUN! Perhaps instead of lecturing about radio history to those who have lived it, you should listen to some of those old WABC/WNBC/WLS/KHJ/WLAC/WCFL/WAYS/WAPE/WTOB/WAIR/WISE/WQXI/CKLW airchecks and hear WHY these stations were so successful!

I'am 51. I don't need airchecks for this. I was given a Zenith AM-FM for my 5th birthday in Sept '61

"By the way, we had FM then too! Some damn creative FM. And AM stations routinely beat FM for MANY years, even when the FM carried a similar format."

That was largely a function of hardware. Untill installation of the Alford antenna on the ESB in '65 FM reception was a pain in the culo. After that it simply was a matter of time as more quality FM sets were sold.

It appears that you are located in the Carolinas, the situation may be different down there and in other rural areas, here in NY and many other cities AM is headed for major trouble in the next 5-7 years if the audio quality delivered to the consumer doesn't improve.

Lino

 

[JIBGUY]

There was, WQEW it died due to aging demos and an offer from Radio Disney.

----------------------------------------------------------------
The second part is the real culprit in the decline of AM radio. AM stations' prices have done nothing but escalate over the past 80 years, except for the early 1990's recession (of which immense recovery has happened since). Station owners sell because they know they can make more with the sale than to keep going, even tho both options work well financially. Unfortunately, many AM's have been purchased by companies who need to pay off the debt that the high station price commands. Therefore they air things (formats, commercials, infomercials) that bring instant cash; things (some things) that the Federal Trade Commission should be looking in to. (prodividing that the FTC can wake up from its 8-year ordered nap). - The whole thing is a vicious circle... The audience pie has been cut many times; by FM and now newer media. Result: desperation by many AM's to further erode the AM dial... airing snake oil and bible hucksters. AM listenership has lowered due to MANY OF ITS OWNERS' CHOSEN PROGRAMMING, much moreso than anything else.

 

[WCWalker]

JIBGUY. Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. And you should know because I seem to recall that you own an AM station in Bawston and another near Bah Hahbor Maine.

 

[Mike Walker]

Of course I know that WNBC was sold. Now who's being condascending? And THAT is why the format changed. The new company wanted to do sports (and has done well with the format revenue-wise, but their ratings have NEVER approached those of WNBC at it's worst). I wasn't talking about who owned the freakin' station. I was talking about it's viability WITH LISTENERS!

The "longterm decline of AM as a music medium" actually happened not longterm, but nearly instantly...AFTER AMs began switching formats, abandoning a viable (but decreasing) audience each time. History lesson, many of them didn't abandon music immediately. That was the sad part. Many switched from top 40 to oldies, then to full service A/C, then to adult standards, finally winding their way to talk.

WSJS in Winston Salem is a great example of the "programming genius" of many stations. About 1986(?) (my memory is fuzzy on the exact details) they abandoned their still-successful full service a/c format for talk. Their ratings took a nosedive (conservative talk didn't exist in it's current form, so they offered liberal lightweights like Michael Jackson). They failed...MISERABLY, returning to music until around 1991, when, with the ascendence of CONSERVATIVE hosts like Rush Limbaugh, they finally found an audience approaching the size of their music audience.

WBT in Charlotte fumbled multiple times in the transition from music to talk (full service A/C actually, which was a helluva lot more than just music), again finally hitting on the "conservative talk" format that resonated with many listeners. But stations in smaller (though competitive) markets that DIDN'T switch in the 80s, or 90s, and still play music (there are some!) continue to hold about the same market share as before. I may LIVE in a rural area, but in this part of NC the FM dial is actually full of more signals than in many major markets, BECAUSE I'm within earshot of Winston Salem, Greensboro, Charlotte, Greenville/Spartanburgh/Asheville, Hickory, and many small towns like West Jefferson, Boone, and Lenoir. So small as it may be, this area is more "typical" of larger markets than you may think, and the number one station in this market is a 1kw AM country station that NEVER lost it's local flavor, and never deviated from dominance, despite the presence of a 100kw FM flamethrower down the hall. Other examples abound in markets surround me...examples of AMs that didn't abandon their audience and (gasp), STILL HAVE IT!

Yes, ABC's executives (MOST executives) incorrectly concluded that new competiton from FM as the "end of viability of AM as a music medium". As ridiculous now as it was then. Bean counters who had never programmed, or worked on a radio station made these decisions (as sadly they do now, in even greater numbers). The PROGRAMMERS would have told them they could fight the fight, and emerge plenty bloodied, but still viable.

 

[hipporadio]

Am I the only one here who finds irony in the call leters of this new religious station? After all, WLIE could well adop the slogan "The Big Lie!"

GREAT CALL, Mike! I doubt this station had much on its table for listener consumption in the first place. I’m not familiar firsthand with the sub-politan charades of Long Island AM radio, but my impression from past discussions is that [save 10kw WHLI on 1100] VERY FEW [if any] L.I. AMs have so much as a limited impact on their local markets in the overwhelming shadow of N.Y.C. The “Big ‘LIE’s” migration into religion is no real “inspiration” of the type that should act as a barometer for well-executed AM station fortunes!

And isn’t it also a tad ironic that you would speculate on “Gay Radio” within a thread about a religious “ascension” on an AM “bottom-feeder” [pardon the pun]

Don't lecture me about radio history. I lived it. I SAW viable AMs change formats again and again, exchanging large audiences for small ones. AM listenership reached as low as 12 percent in the late 80s (down from 50 percent in 1982) because of this. In the mid-80s when this madness began, AMs were NOT DYING...

Oh so true, Mike... OH SO VERY TRUE! How is it that such a blast of common sense continues to fall on such “deaf ears” within an aural-directed industry? Recalling a prior recent post that attracted very-little commentary and debate...

Youth avoidance of the AM band is nothing new! The trend began in the early 1980s—25-years ago! It just happened to orbit with an interesting coincidence—the decision by radio itself to migrate youthful hit-music stations OFF AM and over to FM. And what remained?

—Oldies; nice; but hardly a format up the alley of an 18-year-old.
—Buck Owens and Porter Wagoner; and most teens called them “Hillbillies” then!
—70s “sap”; for their older sisters [YUCK!]
—The Rat Pack; for their parents and grandparents [how un-cool – from their perspective].
—and fledgling pre-Rush Talk Radio; for their high-school Civics teacher.

And can you believe there were actually markets where some genius pitted his current AM Top-40 against a new FM Top-40 launch from within THE SAME BUILDING

[2] That was “then”, but more-stunning levels of innovation followed; and all the industry could muster on AM were Toby Arnold’s “Unforgivables”, political talk, and Hell-Fire 'n Brimstone. Aside from a few Radio Disney outlets for the very-young, ESPN affiliates for the sports-minded, and an occasional low-wattage little-promoted music experiment – AM radio offered VERY-LITTLE to any yute who didn’t aspire to become a Congressional Page or join a Jerry Falwell crusade.

So today, we’re pulling hair out by the roots wondering where the AM kiddies and their 40-year-old parents went to - while we currently offer them Rush; Rush repeated on weekends; Religion; Rush Wannabe; Radio Infomercials; Rush Hater; and occasionally—Rome.

It boils right down [AGAIN] to the long-standing and cogent contention that PROGRAMMING; PROMOTION; and RECEIVER QUALITY [or LACK thereof] are the problems—NOT some silly modulation scheme!

 

[WCWalker]

I can offer a simple analogy that best illustrates bad programming is the culprit leading to reduced ratings on the AM dial.

HDTV. Yes, the picture is vastly superior to that of an analog picture and widescreen creates a much more lifelike picture. But...I am not about to watch a program in HDTV that I never watched in analog. In contrast, if I like a program and it is only available in analog viewing mode, I will watch that instead of watching the apparent superior picture quality of the HDTV signal because I don't like the program content that is currently available in HDTV.

Same thing can be said for radio. If the programming still stinks, people are not going to suddenly tune in just because the programming now sounds like well crafted garbage in hi fidelity.