I have so many thoughts & opinions that I could express right now but you know what? I have so much lumber in both of my eyes that I could build an entire subdivision with it. So I'll be quiet now.
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Religious being done by any major companies, commercially?
- Thread starter carolinaradio
- Start date
MightyFrenchman said:
We have indeed brought up some concepts that are hard to discuss because we become so emotionally attached to some of them. On a day when you feel up to writing about them, we look forward to reading your observations.
A couple of messages back, someone stated that maybe secular ownership was better the church ownership of a station playing CCM. After thinking through that one, I think I agree with the end result, but I may get there with different logic.
Churches tend to have a perceived need to be very "turf protective". Churches announce a statement of faith, put a "What we believe" page on their website and then need live by those statements and documents. A bigger issue than whether the music is rock or not becomes the theological message of the words of the songs. I don't know that the average radio listener who is the target of the evangelism element of CCM broadcasting categorizes doctrine but pastors, elders and deacons get all "wound around the axle" very quickly. "I don't want to hear that song again because the words make it sound like our doctrine is....... (fill in the controversy of your choice)...." A corporation set up to operate a radio station broadcasting "a wide spectrum of Christian expression" can choose to look upon doctrinal disagreements as minor and can choose to ignore them. (That can be a good thing, that can be a bad thing.)
CCM music when analyzed for it's doctrinal content seems to cover a rather ecumenical range of expression. There are a lot of church boards that cannot reconcile themselves to be part a function that projects a "range of expression". Individual people who chose to own a radio station can do that if they wish. Just be prepared for an occasional long phone conversation with a disgruntled listener.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
A very well reasoned post - excellent points.
I don't doubt that secular owners could do a better job than Christian owners with a CCM format in many cases. But I still believe thay can't be trusted to stay with it. If the format doesn't make enough money, or if they think something else will make more, they'll drop it.
Unfortunately too many secular owned stations with supposedly Christian formats are more in the dollar a holler category that do nothing for younger listeners and operate like their real god is green. KAAY in Little Rock is a perfect example.
Unfortunately too many secular owned stations with supposedly Christian formats are more in the dollar a holler category that do nothing for younger listeners and operate like their real god is green. KAAY in Little Rock is a perfect example.
T
Tyke
Guest
Last week, while I was surfing for some online radio, I was surprised to find some CBS stations that are doing CCM. It looks like they have 4 stations available, and they seem to be the HD2 stations in their respective markets, like Tampa/St. Pete, San Diego, Dallas, and St. Louis.
I found The Spirit at www.kezk.com, out of St. Louis, and on their CBS audio player, you can access "Christian" and it'll take you to the other 3 CBS stations that are CCM-based. That was a surprise to me!
After listening to all of them for a while, I think I like their St. Louis station, The Spirit, the most. They have a wide music format. They spice it up with some classic stuff like Petra, Randy Stonehill, Parable, Larry Norman, the 77's, Sweet Comfort Band, etc. And they toss in some short features that make you think about your relationship with the Lord. A unique and entertaining format.
The CBS audio player is very good. I was surprised at the quality of their streaming audio. Their audio player also gives you fast access to other CBS markets by city and format, and you can go to AOL and Yahoo! music stations too. Very nice streaming audio player!
Kudos to CBS for letting some of their stations try a CCM format.
I found The Spirit at www.kezk.com, out of St. Louis, and on their CBS audio player, you can access "Christian" and it'll take you to the other 3 CBS stations that are CCM-based. That was a surprise to me!
After listening to all of them for a while, I think I like their St. Louis station, The Spirit, the most. They have a wide music format. They spice it up with some classic stuff like Petra, Randy Stonehill, Parable, Larry Norman, the 77's, Sweet Comfort Band, etc. And they toss in some short features that make you think about your relationship with the Lord. A unique and entertaining format.
The CBS audio player is very good. I was surprised at the quality of their streaming audio. Their audio player also gives you fast access to other CBS markets by city and format, and you can go to AOL and Yahoo! music stations too. Very nice streaming audio player!
Kudos to CBS for letting some of their stations try a CCM format.
The Clear Channel station I was referring to originally (WBZT) didn't even show in the spring book.
It is definitely the programming. When they were rock the station actually did well. I think this station has reached the end of its road.
It is definitely the programming. When they were rock the station actually did well. I think this station has reached the end of its road.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
gr8oldies said:
I'd actually rather work in secular radio than Christian radio - my last experience with a praise and worship station owner was extremely unpleasant at times. I think it was his diabetes causing mood swings, but the term "worplace bullying" applies when he was against us.
I don't like the term "Bible Believer" myself, especially when I come up against KJV only types who think that translations floated out of heaven on a parachute or something. VERY unpleasant, nasty people.
As for the Bible being complete, consult the last verses of the Bible. It is complete. But as far as God going on vacation - consult references on the Holy Spirit. He is with us always, even to the end of the earth.
There is a distinction between "liberal" and "lukewarm". If somebody chooses to reject God's truth in the second half of the first chapter of Romans to be more inclusive, that is liberal. It makes me wonder how much else of God's word they choose to reject when it is inconvenient. But they can be very spiritual experientially, maybe even sharing the faith. Lukewarm people can populate KJV only, no CCM churches every single Sunday, and lack love never leading someone to Christ.
Bringing this back to radio, any of the Christian formats can be liberal, or lukewarm if the owner is not attuned to the needs of the community. The local PW station can decide it cares more about checks from listeners and play it safe, never seeing a single life changed. The CCM rock station can Jesus headbang, talk conservative issues all day, and turn off people who think "if I believe in evolution, then I can't be a Christian." Neither approach is leading people to Christ. Make radio local, relevant, and in the case of Christian radio - compassionate and caring - but above all: FUN! People, especially young people, will listen in droves. Make it boring, you drive them off.
When talking about religious radio, in this case, Christian, there isn't going to be one station that will meet all needs. There are so many forms of religious expression within THE CHURCH of Christianity. Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Prespyrtarians (sp), Charismatics, Fundementalists, and on and on. Each of these churchs worship and honor our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, it's just their way of expressing it is different as are some of their beliefs once you get past the bedrock core beliefs of Virgin Birth, Crucified, Resurrected, etc. One thing I've found in my years having worshipped in all of these churches at some point in my life is that all of these churches have a solid remnant of believers who are on fire for Christ. I know that will upset some people's theology, but its the truth.
So it is unlikely that any one Christian radio station could offer programming that would meet the needs, wants, and desires of all those Christians. So yes, ETWN serves Catholic Christians, Moody radio serves the evangelical segment of the church. The Lutheran Hour (which is a once a week radio program, not a station or network) serves Lutherans on over 900 secular radio stations in the US and Canada plus XM and Armed Forces Radio - the only Lutheran oriented program or radio network I am aware of). Family Radio Network serves a more fundementalist group of believers, Salem, The Way, etc, etc. My point is these various networks serve a different piece of the Christian Church.
Then besides our religious differences there is musical taste and age that add to the mix. The young want something loud, with much beat, etc, like a Christian Rock. Housewives may better like what generally passes as CCM. There are those older folks who like the more traditional forms of country music (not the pop country rock that is the mainstream of country radio today), who might enjoy listening to country gospel (Gathers, etc). Those of us who like classical music might like hearing some of the symphonies, oriao's (sp), gregorian chant choir type music - middle ages type music, etc. Those of us who like Jazz?? I think we generally are going to be out of luck in term of Christian radio. Urban Gospel generally appeals to African-Americans, but others also listen to that style of worship music. Then of course hymns which can be done classically or even in pop styles depending on the hymn. My point is it all depends on who you are trying to reach with your Christian station. So if done well, I could see how a 3-4 Christian stations could serve a metro area doing completely different programming so as a different segment of that Christian listener pie. Problem is, WILL enough of each segment of the Christian listener pie tune in long enough for that programming, or would it be a novelty so they tune in once in a while, but then spend more time listening to secular music. I like many types of music, both Christian and secular. Everything from Classical, Gregorian Chant, Big Band, Jazz, Easy Listening (what used to be called elevator music), Country, Oldies, CCM Oldies from 70's-80's, and Hymns. So frankly, I get bored after a while just hearing only one style of music. So I'd not stay tuned in to only one Christian station as I also would be checking in to the secular stations that I like also.
I know of two commercial Christian stations. WDAC-FM 94.5 in Lancaster PA, that is evangelical and even rates in the top 5 stations 12+ for that market (there were times in years past where they were in the top 3 stations 12+, yet they play christian elevator music with plenty of preaching and teaching shows, christian radio dramas, news, sort of a full service Christian station. I believe they've been a Christian station since the late 1940's. I don't know if they originally were on AM and moved to FM or had at one time both AM/FM, etc, but know that they've been very successful in their market. This station has plenty of local spots, so the local businesses seem to support that station. Well with the solid ratings they continue to get it is no wonder (so I guess one lesson from WDAC is if your Christian station can get enough listeners, even secular advertisers will buy spots on your station). Near Philly in Chester, PA is WVCH-AM 740 is mostly preaching/teaching with mellow praise music thrown in timeslots where shows haven't bought the time. They've been a commerical Christian station since, I believe, 1949. They have far less of a spot load as WDAC, but they do have some local spots, but they make their bread and butter with the preachers.
Someone suggested having a station that plays both secular artists doing Christian music and Christian artists on a Christian station. The problem you run into is some of those secular artists are openly hostle towards the Church or are living sleazy lifestyles, both of which you see in the media. So then hearing someone like that singing a Christmas carol probably wasn't a part of worship for them, they simply recorded the song to make money. The song had no more meaning for them than singing some pop song of Madonna's. Should Madonna's version of a Christian song be played on a Christian station? I'd have to say no, because her lifestyle says she totally rejects the Christ who'd she be singing about. Frank Sinatra singing a hymn would be just as much as a farce as using Madonna for much the same reasons. Yet, on the other hand, when a Christian artist falls into sexual sin or some of the other issues that gain them much negative media attention, that too taints the hearing of their music. So it can become a no win situation for a PD at a Christian station. I guess that's where those hymn based stations have an edge over the CCM Christian Rock stations. You don't usually know who is doing those older recordings of hymns, but the pop CCM world those folks are out there in the news. I can easily see why many Christians in radio choose to work in secular radio. There's far less hassle, due to the far less judgement that would be recieved by what you play. Let's face it you could get away with playing Sinatra singing a Christmas carol on a secular station as that would be one of the more religious moments in their programming, but on a Christian station, that would be possibly the low point as at least the Christian artist is supposed to be a follower of Christ, Sinatra never publicly made that claim as it wouldn't have fit his image. He was raised Catholic, but I've not read anywhere that he, as an adult, practiced that faith other than going to weddings and funerals, so I'd not regard him as a real or serious Catholic (only the Lord actually knew Sinatra's heart and so it is for him to judge ole blue eyes).
This has been an interesting discussion. Sorry, my comments went very long, and probably didn't offer any real answers, but maybe provided more food for thought and comment from others here.
So it is unlikely that any one Christian radio station could offer programming that would meet the needs, wants, and desires of all those Christians. So yes, ETWN serves Catholic Christians, Moody radio serves the evangelical segment of the church. The Lutheran Hour (which is a once a week radio program, not a station or network) serves Lutherans on over 900 secular radio stations in the US and Canada plus XM and Armed Forces Radio - the only Lutheran oriented program or radio network I am aware of). Family Radio Network serves a more fundementalist group of believers, Salem, The Way, etc, etc. My point is these various networks serve a different piece of the Christian Church.
Then besides our religious differences there is musical taste and age that add to the mix. The young want something loud, with much beat, etc, like a Christian Rock. Housewives may better like what generally passes as CCM. There are those older folks who like the more traditional forms of country music (not the pop country rock that is the mainstream of country radio today), who might enjoy listening to country gospel (Gathers, etc). Those of us who like classical music might like hearing some of the symphonies, oriao's (sp), gregorian chant choir type music - middle ages type music, etc. Those of us who like Jazz?? I think we generally are going to be out of luck in term of Christian radio. Urban Gospel generally appeals to African-Americans, but others also listen to that style of worship music. Then of course hymns which can be done classically or even in pop styles depending on the hymn. My point is it all depends on who you are trying to reach with your Christian station. So if done well, I could see how a 3-4 Christian stations could serve a metro area doing completely different programming so as a different segment of that Christian listener pie. Problem is, WILL enough of each segment of the Christian listener pie tune in long enough for that programming, or would it be a novelty so they tune in once in a while, but then spend more time listening to secular music. I like many types of music, both Christian and secular. Everything from Classical, Gregorian Chant, Big Band, Jazz, Easy Listening (what used to be called elevator music), Country, Oldies, CCM Oldies from 70's-80's, and Hymns. So frankly, I get bored after a while just hearing only one style of music. So I'd not stay tuned in to only one Christian station as I also would be checking in to the secular stations that I like also.
I know of two commercial Christian stations. WDAC-FM 94.5 in Lancaster PA, that is evangelical and even rates in the top 5 stations 12+ for that market (there were times in years past where they were in the top 3 stations 12+, yet they play christian elevator music with plenty of preaching and teaching shows, christian radio dramas, news, sort of a full service Christian station. I believe they've been a Christian station since the late 1940's. I don't know if they originally were on AM and moved to FM or had at one time both AM/FM, etc, but know that they've been very successful in their market. This station has plenty of local spots, so the local businesses seem to support that station. Well with the solid ratings they continue to get it is no wonder (so I guess one lesson from WDAC is if your Christian station can get enough listeners, even secular advertisers will buy spots on your station). Near Philly in Chester, PA is WVCH-AM 740 is mostly preaching/teaching with mellow praise music thrown in timeslots where shows haven't bought the time. They've been a commerical Christian station since, I believe, 1949. They have far less of a spot load as WDAC, but they do have some local spots, but they make their bread and butter with the preachers.
Someone suggested having a station that plays both secular artists doing Christian music and Christian artists on a Christian station. The problem you run into is some of those secular artists are openly hostle towards the Church or are living sleazy lifestyles, both of which you see in the media. So then hearing someone like that singing a Christmas carol probably wasn't a part of worship for them, they simply recorded the song to make money. The song had no more meaning for them than singing some pop song of Madonna's. Should Madonna's version of a Christian song be played on a Christian station? I'd have to say no, because her lifestyle says she totally rejects the Christ who'd she be singing about. Frank Sinatra singing a hymn would be just as much as a farce as using Madonna for much the same reasons. Yet, on the other hand, when a Christian artist falls into sexual sin or some of the other issues that gain them much negative media attention, that too taints the hearing of their music. So it can become a no win situation for a PD at a Christian station. I guess that's where those hymn based stations have an edge over the CCM Christian Rock stations. You don't usually know who is doing those older recordings of hymns, but the pop CCM world those folks are out there in the news. I can easily see why many Christians in radio choose to work in secular radio. There's far less hassle, due to the far less judgement that would be recieved by what you play. Let's face it you could get away with playing Sinatra singing a Christmas carol on a secular station as that would be one of the more religious moments in their programming, but on a Christian station, that would be possibly the low point as at least the Christian artist is supposed to be a follower of Christ, Sinatra never publicly made that claim as it wouldn't have fit his image. He was raised Catholic, but I've not read anywhere that he, as an adult, practiced that faith other than going to weddings and funerals, so I'd not regard him as a real or serious Catholic (only the Lord actually knew Sinatra's heart and so it is for him to judge ole blue eyes).
This has been an interesting discussion. Sorry, my comments went very long, and probably didn't offer any real answers, but maybe provided more food for thought and comment from others here.
Great discussions! I've enjoyed reading them.
Surprisingly, Urban Gospel seems to do well when done by CC/R1/Cumulus etc. I think that is because there really aren't many non-comm stations like that, at least around here.
Clear Channel seems to no-longer be programming the station I mentioned (Shine 96.7/Greenville, SC). I'm hearing a satellite-fed format. Never knew there was a commercial satellite fed Christian CHR-ish format.
Surprisingly, Urban Gospel seems to do well when done by CC/R1/Cumulus etc. I think that is because there really aren't many non-comm stations like that, at least around here.
Clear Channel seems to no-longer be programming the station I mentioned (Shine 96.7/Greenville, SC). I'm hearing a satellite-fed format. Never knew there was a commercial satellite fed Christian CHR-ish format.
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