Nick said:
Why?
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Reminder: The Rescheduled Rapture Is October 21!
- Thread starter DToTheJ
- Start date
Why?
R.F. Burns said:
Now I support the causes of the Wall street protestors, and even joined in myself. But it loses its appeal after a certain time. If it's still around by 12/21/12, the protest would have lost its original meaning and most likely would become a camp for the homeless in NYC. At least that guy who donated his life savings to Family Radio now has a place to live, in the middle of Zuccotti Park.
I wonder what Family Radio's next doomsday is going to be. No one will believe them, or any other group claiming that doomsday is nigh. With 3 failed predictions, Family Radio should just sell all their stations since no one will trust what they say.
Nick said:
OK, I'm not going to get into a political word war with you but I have to say, that your statement that it's losing its appeal speaks to the short attention span many Americans have. I agree that they do have to be more than a group of people with no focus. As of now, they've raised the ire of the connected and people in power and that alone is a positive. If for no other reason than to realize that their shenanigans are not going by un-noticed. Let's see what happens over the next few months. As far as Harold is concerned, you have to wonder what is going through his head, assuming that he is a true believer. He basically put it all on the line for this prediction and as they say, he came up snake eyes. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it was because of the strain he put himself through with his end of times prediction that exacerbated his health issues. Obviously Harold is being “put out to pasture” by those now in charge of Family Radio. The real question is, without his charismatic presence what will happen to the organization.
I don't really care about this whole doomsday thing for 12/21/12, according to the source that an asteroid called Apopheus will hit Earth on April 13th, 2036. That must be about 25 years from now.
badjef said:
What would you gain by moving to Empire? If it were even possible (it's a REALLY tight squeeze) you'd have to drop power to a B1 and go directional. 94.7 covers the five boroughs from Newark, doesn't it?
Aside from the fact that there's no room on Empire for a directional antenna, why would you want to pay the ridiculous rent and build out a new facility for a station that will always be licensed to Newark, and covers the city anyways?
1.) 94.7 covers the 5 boroughs, but not well. If it did, Z100 would have never moved from the same location. It also has my birthtown of Newark as its City Of License. (My parents are still apologizing to me)reelyreal said:
2.) The rent is CODB and the transmitter doesn't take up that much room. Tag into the multiplexer and you're done.
3.) It is not rational to think that all things will remain equal. 94.7 would not necessarily have to:
a.) go directional.
b.) have to drop to a B1.
Money talks and in New York City, bends the rules. As 103.5 did.
It will happen, probably sooner than 105.9. But both will do it. I do not have a time frame, I'll remind you on more threads. ;D
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
105.9 has been on Empire for years. 600W ERP into the master antenna. B1.
There's a full B 94.7 in Springfield, Ma that they would have to protect with such a move. A drop to B1 is likely. Z-100 could make the move because it was getting farther away from the 100.3 outside of Philly.
An on-channel booster for Manhattan would be a better option. Aim it north/south off of 4 Times Square. 94.7 has a monster signal in NJ and even Westchester... all the way up to Danbury, CT. With all of that NJ signal and the 'burbs, I would program a good pop leaning country station.
There's a full B 94.7 in Springfield, Ma that they would have to protect with such a move. A drop to B1 is likely. Z-100 could make the move because it was getting farther away from the 100.3 outside of Philly.
An on-channel booster for Manhattan would be a better option. Aim it north/south off of 4 Times Square. 94.7 has a monster signal in NJ and even Westchester... all the way up to Danbury, CT. With all of that NJ signal and the 'burbs, I would program a good pop leaning country station.
Nick said:
Never underestimate the power of the gullible. There is still plenty of people who will accept any excuse that Mr. Camping has and will wait for the next day. After all, this has been going on in religion since the beginning of humankind.
In the scheme of things, not that many years. These things take time which is why you don't want to drag your feet. The license for 105.9 was in disarray for many years.WNTIRadio said:
since the eventual new owner of the license is unknown at this point, if it is Cumulus, they already control the license for 94.7 in Springfield.
Yeah, don't remind me. Z100 went from the "baby pea shooter transmitter" to "The Flamethrower" and since I was living in Jackson, NJ at the time, I had about 3 days of clear Z before I had a battle with another Z in Philly as WKSZ "Kiss 100".
An on-channel booster for Manhattan would be a better option. Aim it north/south off of 4 Times Square. 94.7 has a monster signal in NJ and even Westchester... all the way up to Danbury, CT. With all of that NJ signal and the 'burbs, I would program a good pop leaning country station.
[/quote]
Can you give me an example of an on-channel booster?
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
Realizing I may be overlooking something relevant, if non-directional WMAS-FM 94.7 class B Springfield, Massachusetts is preventing co-channel WFME-FM 94.7 class B from operating as a full class B non-directionally from the Empire State Building, then how is WPAT-FM 93.1 class B operating non-directionally from lower Manhattan simultaneously with non-directional and co-channel WHYN-FM 93.1 class B, also in Springfield? In both scenarios WPAT and WHYN are both full class B FMs and both are the same distance from each other that WFME as a full class B would be from its co-channel WMAS should WFME re-locate to the Empire State Building.
jmtillery said:
The short answer is "they can't." At least not so far. WPAT applied for 6kw from ESB, and that was denied in 2003 due to interference with co-channel WHYN-FM. There's a petition for reconsideration that's been in limbo since 2003, and while they're waiting, they're operating with a low power STA from ESB (4kw.)
WPAT is a special case as a result of losing their main antenna on 9/11. They moved back to Empire following an interim move. When it was decided 1WTC would not have an antenna, they applied for a permanant change to Empire.reelyreal said:
Until they top out 1WTC, my feeling is it is a continuing liquid situation when it comes to the height and disposition of the "crown".
94.7 and 105.9 are not under those same conditions.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
If 94.7/WFME moves to ESB, it'll either have to (a) go directional to protect co-channel WMAS in Springfield, or (b) downgrade to B1 status... which one would be more feasible for a prospective owner/engineer? The top of the ESB is crowded enough as it is, so it'll be difficult to install a directional at the top... what'd non-directional B1 be from ESB in terms of watts?
WQXR also can't upgrade due to WBLI on Long Island, WCHR-FM on the Jersey Shore, WHCN in Hartford, etc... pretty boxed in as a B1 where it is
WQXR also can't upgrade due to WBLI on Long Island, WCHR-FM on the Jersey Shore, WHCN in Hartford, etc... pretty boxed in as a B1 where it is
Every argument is centered upon a false assumption that these moves and upgrades will have to happen under the existing conditions.danikayser84 said:If 94.7/WFME moves to ESB, it'll either have to (a) go directional to protect co-channel WMAS in Springfield, or (b) downgrade to B1 status... which one would be more feasible for a prospective owner/engineer? The top of the ESB is crowded enough as it is, so it'll be difficult to install a directional at the top... what'd non-directional B1 be from ESB in terms of watts?
WQXR also can't upgrade due to WBLI on Long Island, WCHR-FM on the Jersey Shore, WHCN in Hartford, etc... pretty boxed in as a B1 where it is
A lot of the information and changing situations have been temporary. The initial 800kc spacing centered on New York City as its reference point. 94.7 and 105.9 have always been New York City stations that happen to have Newark as their City of license. 103.5 has been Lake Success - still New York City and part of the 800kc reference.
The short-spacing is a situation existing for a very long time. But even the people over at 106.1 WBLI have known they were benefiting from the depressed situation that existed with the license of 105.9 as have our friends in Philly with their 106.1. They have known that 105.9 would be able to take a little of what wasn't 106.1's area to begin with, eventually.
The FCC has "protected" contours developed that essentially says the station can't use anymore than that of their "protected" contour without losing their protection, but they don't have to use it all either to be compliant with their license.
Don't you think the guys over at 100.5 WRCH had a problem with Z100 when they moved from West Orange. They W-V-eNJoyed that previous location. The move to Empire also allowed 100.1 WJRZ to move 9 miles north and abandon their Manahawkin transmitter location so that they could cover the Northern Ocean County listeners better from Oyster Creek and taller antenna in the process.
90.7 WFUV fits the 800kc spacing reference of New York City. So does 88.3 WBGO, which is why they want to make use of the move across the Hudson.
Besides, your argument will be moot if Cumulus purchases the license for 94.7, anyway.
I saw how 98.5 in Ocala was downgraded when Entercom bought 98.7 in Holmes Beach.
98.5 (Crystal River) had a killer signal all the way down here to Sa-ra-so-ta! When they moved the antenna for 98.7 from Cortez Road in Bradenton to Pinellas County, 98.5 "Coast-to Coast 'KTK" was gone from here because of depower.
The Tampa Bay area is much more populated than Ocala/Gainesville. New York is just a little more complicated, because this stuff wasn't done originally, that's all.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
The spacing requirements don't matter for non-comm stations, such as WFUV and WBGO. It's all based on contour overlap protection, there is an 89.1 in the Bronx, WNYU. There is also 89.9, WKCR. Non-comms can move around much easier because all they have to do is protect existing contours of co-channel, adjacent, 2nd adjacent and 3rd adjacent channels.
In the commercial band, there is a table of allotments to contend with, as well as minimum spacing rules for each class of stations. Sometimes, a station can't move because it has to protect a potential applicant that is listed in the table of allotments! It may not be on the air, but you gotta space enough away from it.
Much of NYC and the burbs are pre-1963 grandfathered short spacings. They would never happen today, but because they're already in place, everyone lives with them.
http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/spacing/index.html
In the commercial band, there is a table of allotments to contend with, as well as minimum spacing rules for each class of stations. Sometimes, a station can't move because it has to protect a potential applicant that is listed in the table of allotments! It may not be on the air, but you gotta space enough away from it.
Much of NYC and the burbs are pre-1963 grandfathered short spacings. They would never happen today, but because they're already in place, everyone lives with them.
http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/spacing/index.html
This is how Z-100 moved to Empire,
http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/spacing/73215e.html
They just made it with contour protection and come in just a hair over 90 miles as the crow flies between the two tx sites.
http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/spacing/73215e.html
They just made it with contour protection and come in just a hair over 90 miles as the crow flies between the two tx sites.
I should have done this all in one neat post, but oh well...
Using this transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/fmpower.html we see that a maximum, Non-D B1 from Empire is 1.35kW.
Using this transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/fmpower.html we see that a maximum, Non-D B1 from Empire is 1.35kW.
Included with that pre-1963 grandfather is that little pesky 800kc spacing reference. WNYU and WKCR both fall into that.WNTIRadio said:
88.3, 89.1, 89.9, 90.7, 91.5, 92.3, 93.1, 93.9, 94.7, 95.5, 96.3, 97.1, 97.9, 98.7, 99.5, 100.3, 101.1, 101.9, 102.7, 103.5, 104.3, 105.1, 105.9, 106.7, 107.5.
Every one of those frequencies is used by the FCC computer as reference starting in New York City.
It is no coincidence that those are the frequencies we are debating. Those are the top dollar frequencies. They are the crown jewel of all of radio.
It is, how they say, going against the laws of nature to oppose those frequencies from operating in New York City and from the center of the universe near the 1250 foot level - The Top of the Empire State Building.
It is where TV originated and where FM lives. It is why it is back again.
It would be the equivalent of moving your AM reference antenna from a directional array and expecting to have the pattern you wanted.
Jeff in Sa-ra-ra-so-ta!
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