Removed from dying AM radio

[landtuna]

Oh, sure! Bilingualism has worked so well for Canada, hasn't it?

It isn't the language so much that has proven a problem but the overall culture of Quebec that is the issue. In a lot of ways Quebec has made its bed and now has to lie in it. It is proving very uncomfortable because of the isolation. Quebec is not located in France or even Europe but they want to be. It is going to continue being a painful existence as long as that prejudice exists.

The FCC should ban all foreign language broadcasting. All government offices and all businesses in interstate commerce should be required to operate only in English. English should be mandated as the official language of the USA. And only people who can speak, read and write English should be allowed to immigrate (and stay).

When I hear people spout that opinion I think of all the immigrants who either spoke no English at all when they arrived or use English as a second language. The Italian stonemasons of New England who built those beautiful bridges along the parkways. All the company's started by people like Andy Grove (Hungarian - Intel) that have made gigantic contributions to America. We are who we are not despite these people but because of these people. So long as we have a common language (English) why would we want to restrict individuals from speaking their language of choice? English is the de facto language of international commerce and aviation already. How much more is required to be good enough for you?

 

[JeffM]

I agree. Unless FL has an ancestor named Running Wolf he hasn't mentioned, his people came here from somewhere, and they probably didn't speak English. For that matter, neither did Mr. Running Wolf. Whites only, no girls allowed, no dogs or Irishmen, right, FakeLiberal?

 

[Ravens]

How disingenuous and hypocritical. Typical of Bain Channel, aka IHeart$. Sort of like giving stuff to The Goodwill instead of just throwing it out. If Bain Channel just turns the licenses back in, they don't get a tax deduction. Instead they give it to this "Minority Telecom Council," inflate the market value of a useless license, and take it off their corporate taxes.

Anybody bother to see how many of these "minority ownership" stations are actually operating?

What have you ever done to help minority communities?

 

[Avid Listener]

Oh, sure! Bilingualism has worked so well for Canada, hasn't it?

The FCC should ban all foreign language broadcasting. All government offices and all businesses in interstate commerce should be required to operate only in English. English should be mandated as the official language of the USA. And only people who can speak, read and write English should be allowed to immigrate (and stay).

Actually, bilingualism has worked reasonably well for Canada as a whole, since the French speaking Canadians are mostly in Quebec, and most Canadians speak both French and English. It's not like Canada has hordes of illegal aliens sneaking across their borders sucking up public resources and demanding that everyone learn French to cater to them.

Beyond that, the only germane issue is whether or not a public resource, the airwaves, should be allocated for use for non-English speaking people.

 

[TheBigA]

Beyond that, the only germane issue is whether or not a public resource, the airwaves, should be allocated for use for non-English speaking people.

The only law about this is the licensee must be a US citizen. Language isn't specified.

The frequency isn't "allocated" for this use. But there is no law against its use targeting people who speak other languages.

 

[Avid Listener]

The only law about this is the licensee must be a US citizen. Language isn't specified.

The frequency isn't "allocated" for this use. But there is no law against its use targeting people who speak other languages.

You just don't get it, do you. Laws are passed all the time. Regulations are promulgated and then rescinded and changed all the time. In a republic like the United States, Congress has the power to change any law at any time, so long as it doesn't violate the Constitution. Therefore, the issue pertaining to discussing "whether or not a public resource, the airwaves, should be allocated for use for non-English speaking people" means, clearly and obviously, means discussing whether or not the current laws need to be changed. How can you be so incredibly dense that you couldn't see that without having to have someone spell it out for you?

 

[TheBigA]

Congress has the power to change any law at any time

Until they do, we work under the laws as they exist. I'm not interested in discussing whether or not the law needs to be changed.

However placing further impediments to licensees, or changing language laws, will not help the AM band.

 

[davideduardo]

Beyond that, the only germane issue is whether or not a public resource, the airwaves, should be allocated for use for non-English speaking people.

That is fundamentally a freedom of speech issue, and would require a constitutional amendment to change the current absence of language restrictions or limitations on FCC licenses.

It also brings to the table the fact that in Puerto Rico, USA, 99.99% of the population speaks Spanish while only a minority speaks fluent English. It also brings into play the fact that a huge part of the Southwest was once Spanish and later Mexican and the Gadsden Purchase guaranteed the language rights of all residents. Further, New Mexico is officially bilingual.

Since the US has no "official" language, it's understood that stations can broadcast in any language they want.

 

[davideduardo]

The only law about this is the licensee must be a US citizen. Language isn't specified.

And there is an open docket or review process looking at whether to follow most of the world and allow much higher percentages of foreign ownership of US broadcast stations.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually, bilingualism has worked reasonably well for Canada as a whole, since the French speaking Canadians are mostly in Quebec, and most Canadians speak both French and English. It's not like Canada has hordes of illegal aliens sneaking across their borders sucking up public resources and demanding that everyone learn French to cater to them.

I just spoke with my neighbors who live in Calgary but winter here. Since they have a business that has branches from western Ontario to BC, they know a lot about their country. They said your statement about "Most Canadians speak both French and English" to be laughable. The farther you get from Québec, the fewer bilinguals you will find. They referred to a much researched "Bilingual Belt" of the Francophone areas of Québec and adjoining Southeastern Ontario and Northern New Brunswick.

They also said to check the 2011 Canadian Census, which says that only 20.4% of the population has knowledge of both languages. About half of those are truly bilingual (can think, speak, read and write in both French and English with reasonably comparable proficiency in each).

So... most Canadians don't speak both English and French. In fact, only a small minority does.

 

[mimo]

David said 2 things I wanted to say. One the United States has no official language, and two, Most Canadians are not bilingual. In fact the only official bilingual province is New Brunswick. Quebec is officially French, and Ontario has a good percentage of Franco-Ontariens. Most of whom live in eastern Ontario or in the Nickel belt up north. Outside of that, the further away you go, the more English it becomes..due to settlement. When the Brits came over in the last 100 or so years, many of them went west, My grandma was one of them. The only reason Canada is a bilingual nation is because at the time of confederation, the language was evenly split between the 2. Even Ottawa was 70% French until the 1960's now it's 60% English.

 

[boombox4]

Oh, sure! Bilingualism has worked so well for Canada, hasn't it?

The FCC should ban all foreign language broadcasting.

Gee, Fred. By doing that the FCC would remove some of the more interesting sounding programming you can hear on the AM band. All that cool South Asian programming; all that cool ranchero, tropical, and norteño music; and all that cool Vietnamese programming.

 

[boombox4]

David said 2 things I wanted to say. One the United States has no official language, and two, Most Canadians are not bilingual. In fact the only official bilingual province is New Brunswick. Quebec is officially French, and Ontario has a good percentage of Franco-Ontariens. Most of whom live in eastern Ontario or in the Nickel belt up north. Outside of that, the further away you go, the more English it becomes..due to settlement. When the Brits came over in the last 100 or so years, many of them went west, My grandma was one of them. The only reason Canada is a bilingual nation is because at the time of confederation, the language was evenly split between the 2. Even Ottawa was 70% French until the 1960's now it's 60% English.

Is it still true that French is a mandatory subject in Canadian public schools?

 

[Avid Listener]

I'm not interested in discussing whether or not the law needs to be changed.

Then kindly step aside and allow those who do wish to discuss that issue do so. The ramifications of such a law would have a profound impact on the future of the AM band. If it is on-topic to the discussion to talk about what impact laws and regulations of the past had on the AM band, then it is equally on-topic to discuss how what impact future legislation might have.

I just spoke with my neighbors who live in Calgary but winter here. Since they have a business that has branches from western Ontario to BC, they know a lot about their country. They said your statement about "Most Canadians speak both French and English" to be laughable. The farther you get from Québec, the fewer bilinguals you will find. They referred to a much researched "Bilingual Belt" of the Francophone areas of Québec and adjoining Southeastern Ontario and Northern New Brunswick.

They also said to check the 2011 Canadian Census, which says that only 20.4% of the population has knowledge of both languages. About half of those are truly bilingual (can think, speak, read and write in both French and English with reasonably comparable proficiency in each).

So... most Canadians don't speak both English and French. In fact, only a small minority does.

But there are few Canadians legally living in Canada who only speak French, and they mostly tend to live in one specific region. In America, we're plagued with large numbers of people who only speak Spanish scattered all over the country, and far too many of them are illegal aliens.

The key point of my post regarding Canada is that Canada is not suffering from a plague of French-speaking illegal aliens invading their nation. As usual, you nitpick a minor, beside-the-point issue and ignore the important point. America is being invaded by Spanish speaking illegal aliens who have no business being here. Canada is NOT being invaded by French speaking illegal aliens.

And don't give me that lame "freedom of speech" argument. If the government can tell me that there are certain words I cannot say over the airwaves or I'll lose my license to operate a radio station, then the government can also decree that the public airwaves are to be used for the entire public good, and some stations cannot be used fir only illegal aliens who won't learn English.

 

[TheBigA]

If it is on-topic to the discussion to talk about what impact laws and regulations of the past had on the AM band, then it is equally on-topic to discuss how what impact future legislation might have.

I didn't want to say it was off topic, I said I didn't want to discuss it. But I also said that placing any such rules on AM radio owners won't help AM radio. You don't create more impediments to people using a dying technology. Absolutely contrary to basic common sense.

the government can also decree that the public airwaves are to be used for the entire public good, and some stations cannot be used fir only illegal aliens who won't learn English.

The government CAN do a lot of things, but quite often WON'T do most of those things. This would fall into the category of MOST of those things.

The courts have already ruled that the FCC indecency rules are "capricious" and "vague," and sent them back to be re-written.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

But there are few Canadians legally living in Canada who only speak French, and they mostly tend to live in one specific region. In America, we're plagued with large numbers of people who only speak Spanish scattered all over the country, and far too many of them are illegal aliens.

The key point of my post regarding Canada is that Canada is not suffering from a plague of French-speaking illegal aliens invading their nation. As usual, you nitpick a minor, beside-the-point issue and ignore the important point. America is being invaded by Spanish speaking illegal aliens who have no business being here. Canada is NOT being invaded by French speaking illegal aliens.

I thought the subject of this thread was the life-and-death of AM radio.

I am reading some logic here that appears to be attempting to say that AM broadcasters must be rounded up and made to enforce the immigration laws.... which the American public cannot find a "happy place" on permitted and desired immigration or lack there-of.

How would you write a law mandating that broadcasters solve the "problem". My dad was NOT a German immigrant, but he was the last child in a family formed around two immigrants. For health reasons, he spent some time as the caretaker and interpreter for his parents before he finally followed his brothers and sisters in leaving the nest. He lived to be 89 and never outgrew his desire to once in awhile crank up the shortwave and hear some German language on the radio.

Now... scrunch up your best bit of intellect and explain to me how it is in the best interest of this nation for the government of this nation to have laws and regulations that say a broadcaster cannot produce programming that appeals to people who came here from another country, and for the children who grew up in that home. Would it be the duty of the broadcaster to send Truant Officers from home to home with "signal sniffers" and when they find a home or car where people are listening to German or French or Spanish language programming, make the listener produce papers proving they are legal citizens who have the right to listen to the language of their choice.

You entire argument on this topic is a "fool's errand" to propagate today's political issues held by Tea Party types and their fellow travelers.

 

[Avid Listener]

I didn't want to say it was off topic, I said I didn't want to discuss it.

Then don't. Just shut up about it.

I thought the subject of this thread was the life-and-death of AM radio.

Please, don't be obtuse. One of the main arguments in favor of the continued success of AM radio is using the AM band for foreign language programming. Must these discussions be so shallow, so trivial, so petty that we cannot go into some depth on issues like that?

Canada has (or had) a law that mandated a certain amount of "Canadian content". They manage to enforce it somehow. So, changing FCC regulations to require that a certain percentage of all programming on a publically licensed radio station must be in English is quite possible. And, as with most FCC regulations on content, enforcement would rely on challenges and complaints issued by citizens. How does the FCC regulate its regulation that forbids the use of certain words on the air? If the FCC can enforce rules that say that you cannot say ____ or _____ or _____, then there's no reason why they couldn't enforce a law that a certain percentage of the content broadcast "in the public interest" must be in English.

Now, whether or not that is a good idea or not is a different discussion. Frankly, I expect that there will soon be a strong, grass-roots backlash against some of the current policies of the current administration, and things might change a great deal. Nothing positive is served by you engaging in such loaded name-calling, in violation of the TOS of this site.

 

[TheBigA]

Then don't. Just shut up about it.

You're in no position to tell me what to do.

So, changing FCC regulations to require that a certain percentage of all programming on a publically licensed radio station must be in English is quite possible.

Only if more than half of the Congress agrees. For the past ten years, they haven't agreed on much. Saying it's possible they'd agree on such an extreme position is not realistic.

You're assuming that stations broadcasting in a foreign language are aimed at illegals. That's like assuming all urban radio is aiming at drug dealers. The FCC, and in fact the federal government, has numerous anti-discriminatory laws and policies in effect. The FCC seeks to promote ownership of broadcast outlets by minorities, and has an office of diversity. The FCC has a longstanding policy to stay out of program formats. And the federal government has not been able to pass an official language law in 100 years. So while anything is possible, this is highly unlikely.

 

[Avid Listener]

You're in no position to tell me what to do.

That was simply excellent advice, not an order.

 

[davideduardo]

So, changing FCC regulations to require that a certain percentage of all programming on a publically licensed radio station must be in English is quite possible.

You are ignoring the First Amendment implications, which are not just about freedom of speech but also about freedom of the press.

And with the ongoing decline in newspapers and other printed material, reducing or eliminating non-English language radio would deprive communities of their voice... and action that would be politically unpopular.