Boss Radio said:
Exactly. Take that AM and superserve that community. Don't try to be a Pittsburgh station...YOU WILL LOSE.
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Renda Broadcasting unplugs....
- Thread starter pocket-radio
- Start date
Exactly. Take that AM and superserve that community. Don't try to be a Pittsburgh station...YOU WILL LOSE.
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
1360 barely reaches Squirrel Hill at night. There is no way it could be competitive. Back in the old WMCK days, they had a decent TOP 40 station and unlike KQV and KDKA, they had no hour long news blocks. Still they lost out. If they had a good signal, they might have been a seriously competitive third TOP 40 station. As for serving the Mon Valley market only, what type of programming could work? McKeesport is not the viable city it was when G.C. Murphy ruled from a genuine downtown at the little point on the Allegheny and Youghegheny ( ? spelling?).
Pratte4Life said:From- I'm not sure Boortz's numbers were negligible.
I was told he did better on 104.7 than Limbaugh was doing on KDKA.
The thing is/was- I believe with the effort Boortz put out and whatever name recognition he had from whatever source he had a better chance to bring new listeners to WPTT.
Let's face it, the highest ratings that station had was when Jerry Bowyer had a regular show to go with Hoerth and Cullen.
True, the best numbers WPTT ever had were when it was live and local from 6am-6pm. It briefly flirted with the notion of pulling a 2.0 in one book, but that was about it. And while you claimed there was a left leaning culture there, it was the same management at the tiime that had this lineup that would later try to market the station as a left leaning station, and I say market as opposed to program, because it never really went in one direction or the other. But after rearranging their lineup to accommodate him, Bowyer eventually left for greener pastures on WORD FM. I imagine that it was at least partially a monetary decision on his part, but he was also doing fillin work during evening drive in LA for the Salem station there, as well as some guest hosting for Mike Gallagher, also a Salem property which I imagine aided in his decision to leave.
But I think the idea here is that regardless of the political affiliation of the show, people are more likely to tune in 1) if it is good, 2) if it is live and 3) if it is local, in that order of importance. While examining the inside numbers, the stations audience alwasy spiked during Lynn Cullen's show, and tailed off before and after, though with lesser audience turnover when the station was live all day. Once Bowyer left and the station went with syndication during middays, the audience shrunk in part because the syndicated content, whether that be Boortz or Hartmann couldn't hold the audience between Lynn's show in the morning and Doug's in the afternoon.
Boortz did beat Rush when he was on 104.7, but CC didn't want one of their properties under the CBS umbrella, so when Rush's deal ended with KDKA, CC put him on 104.7, despite the fact he was losing that timeslot to Boortz. Boortz benefited primarily form the good signal that 104.7 provided, after leaving 104.7 his numbers in this market were never near the same, whether that be on 1360 or 1020, as evidenced by the fact that he didn't have the same type meltdown on the air when he was pulled from either of those stations that he did when he was pulled from 104.7. You didn't see Boortz buying billboards when 1360 let him go in favor of Clark Howard (though Boortz and Howard are good friends, which may have kept him from sabotaging the deal on air), nor did you see them pop up in the same manner when 1020 picked him up.
fromtheinsideout said:But I think the idea here is that regardless of the political affiliation of the show, people are more likely to tune in 1) if it is good,
2) if it is live and 3) if it is local, in that order of importance.
#1 is really all that matters, the other two are minor factors.
fromtheinsideout said:Boortz did beat Rush when he was on 104.7, but CC didn't want one of their properties under the CBS umbrella, so when Rush's deal ended with KDKA, CC put him on 104.7, despite the fact he was losing that timeslot to Boortz.
CC took him away from KD because it would hurt KD.
fromtheinsideout said:Boortz benefited primarily form the good signal that 104.7 provided, after leaving 104.7 his numbers in this market were never near the same
On 104.7 he was between Beck and Hannity. On 1360 he was between Cullen and Hoerth.
True, and when he was on KDKA he couldn't draw either. Boortz couldn't hold Cullen's audience for three hours until Hoerth came on, nor could he build an audience for Hoerth to benefit from. WPTT would have been better served to find another local talent to fill that midday slot, but it was always the ugly kid sister under the Renda umbrella, so that money would never be spent. Instead they went under the illusion that Boortz's audience would follow him, and they didn't. They just stuck with the next thing 104.7 plugged into that slot, which happened to be Limbaugh, a pretty good choice to fill that hole, but it wasn't like Boortz had a loyal following that would go anywhere with him. Instead you had a ratings drag in the middle of the day for WPTT, which benefited no one. Cullen's audience turned the dial at noon, and Hoerth's show, if it was going to be a success, needed a better lead in than Boortz, or Hartmann for that matter, as neither show held the 9am-12 pm numbers. Mind you, had they found something that the audience didn't up and walk away from at noon, and could have held that 1.4-1.6 12+ number and been sellable enough, they might still be doing talk as oppoosed to selling time to whoever has a check that clears. But that goes to the old addage that you have to spend money to make money, and PTT was never going to be given that money to spend.
MsMusicRadio said:1360 barely reaches Squirrel Hill at night. There is no way it could be competitive. Back in the old WMCK days, they had a decent TOP 40 station and unlike KQV and KDKA, they had no hour long news blocks. Still they lost out. If they had a good signal, they might have been a seriously competitive third TOP 40 station. As for serving the Mon Valley market only, what type of programming could work? McKeesport is not the viable city it was when G.C. Murphy ruled from a genuine downtown at the little point on the Allegheny and Youghegheny ( ? spelling?).
I mentioned this awhile back and got some good feedback from it- so I'll give you the suggestion I liked.
There is a website- http://www.tubecityonline.com/almanac/index.html - otherwise known as the Tube City Almanac.
It's not only "must-read" if you live in the Mon Valley, but it is must read if you enjoy passionate writing.
Jason Togyer (did I spell your name right this time?) covers his home area with such passion that I come away thinking that McKeesport, USA must be the greatest metropolitan area in the country every time- and I'd bet you a dollar Jason feels that way.
His mixture of coverage of the area's history and contemporary issues is phenominal and always presented with a humorous twist- but not so much that he destroys his credibility. Togyer is such a great writer that his humor helps his credibility- like Myron Cope.
He also has some radio background.
So I think a local Mon Valley station could work- if for no other reason the content he provides is enough to support a truly great website.
AND I AIN'T EVEN FROM THE MON VALLEY!!!!!!!!
From- Here's what I don't understand about your comments on the billboards thing (I feel like Radio Realist, all of the sudden . . . ).
Of course Boortz wasn't going to buy billboards for Clark Howard. And it makes sense he wouldn't on KDKA, either, as they do enough promotion themselves (and he wasn't live).
But if I'm an AM Radio Station on 1360 trying to hold on, and I have two veteran hosts, and one of the top 10 radio hosts in the country offers me the deal that after a successful run on another station HE WILL PAY TO PROMOTE MY STATION, and I get tons of feedback from said Top 10 host (again- I don't care if it's positive or negative) . . .
AIN'T NO WAY I'M TAKING OFF NEIL BOORTZ AFTER THREE MONTHS!
Now, would Boortz have put WPTT neck and neck against KDKA and 104.7? Of course not.
But would he have generated enough of a following that he could have taken the Jerry Bowyer role on the station, and it would have returned to the 1.5 range they once were on?
And, as my original topic was, would it have been enough to keep the Lone Liberal and maybe even Uncle Dougie on the air?
Nobody knows, but the other way killed the station and made sure there was less liberal talk in Pittsburgh.
I'm with you on what makes a talk show successful is if it is good and live.
But I will submit to you when WPTT took off Boortz- who I honestly am not a fan of but I do understand he can deliver a presence- they took off the last chance they had of succeeding.
Cause Neil Boortz is a helluva lot "gooder" than Thom Hartmann and Clark Howard (what a bore that show is!).
Of course Boortz wasn't going to buy billboards for Clark Howard. And it makes sense he wouldn't on KDKA, either, as they do enough promotion themselves (and he wasn't live).
But if I'm an AM Radio Station on 1360 trying to hold on, and I have two veteran hosts, and one of the top 10 radio hosts in the country offers me the deal that after a successful run on another station HE WILL PAY TO PROMOTE MY STATION, and I get tons of feedback from said Top 10 host (again- I don't care if it's positive or negative) . . .
AIN'T NO WAY I'M TAKING OFF NEIL BOORTZ AFTER THREE MONTHS!
Now, would Boortz have put WPTT neck and neck against KDKA and 104.7? Of course not.
But would he have generated enough of a following that he could have taken the Jerry Bowyer role on the station, and it would have returned to the 1.5 range they once were on?
And, as my original topic was, would it have been enough to keep the Lone Liberal and maybe even Uncle Dougie on the air?
Nobody knows, but the other way killed the station and made sure there was less liberal talk in Pittsburgh.
I'm with you on what makes a talk show successful is if it is good and live.
But I will submit to you when WPTT took off Boortz- who I honestly am not a fan of but I do understand he can deliver a presence- they took off the last chance they had of succeeding.
Cause Neil Boortz is a helluva lot "gooder" than Thom Hartmann and Clark Howard (what a bore that show is!).
From- More thoughts on your posts.
Don't discount that by taking Rush from KDKA, 104.7 made a Clear Channel property (WDVE) No. 1 instead of KDKA.
No. 2- Remember that Boortz on KDKA was on tape delay. By 7 p.m. I've had the opportunity to listen to Rush, Hannity, and whoever else talk about the issues of the day as they've happened- and if I do listen to Boortz his smugness doesn't play well if he's the second person I'm hearing discuss a certain topic.
For the reasons discussed earlier that FM listeners often don't listen to AM, however, I think it is a disservive to all parties concerned that they didn't give the Boortz listener the chance to follow him to AM.
Remember something else. Boortz actually WAS tape-delayed, I believe, on 104.7 but NOT on WPTT. He came on at 10 a.m. on WPTT and at noon on 104.7.
In fact, wasn't Uncle Dougie the morning guy from 7-10 and then Cullen came on at 3 p.m?
So this idea that he didn't hold the audience from the time Cullen and Hoerth were on- well obviously not if my memory is correct.
Still, I know the point you're trying to make.
So this presents the question- why wouldn't a programmer try to put on Cullen and Hoerth back-to-back, and though I know Hoerth hated being the morning guy, he IS the perfect type of host for a morning show on that station and a "go on at 7 or else" would easily have made Hoerth EMBRACE the morning!
Don't discount that by taking Rush from KDKA, 104.7 made a Clear Channel property (WDVE) No. 1 instead of KDKA.
No. 2- Remember that Boortz on KDKA was on tape delay. By 7 p.m. I've had the opportunity to listen to Rush, Hannity, and whoever else talk about the issues of the day as they've happened- and if I do listen to Boortz his smugness doesn't play well if he's the second person I'm hearing discuss a certain topic.
For the reasons discussed earlier that FM listeners often don't listen to AM, however, I think it is a disservive to all parties concerned that they didn't give the Boortz listener the chance to follow him to AM.
Remember something else. Boortz actually WAS tape-delayed, I believe, on 104.7 but NOT on WPTT. He came on at 10 a.m. on WPTT and at noon on 104.7.
In fact, wasn't Uncle Dougie the morning guy from 7-10 and then Cullen came on at 3 p.m?
So this idea that he didn't hold the audience from the time Cullen and Hoerth were on- well obviously not if my memory is correct.
Still, I know the point you're trying to make.
So this presents the question- why wouldn't a programmer try to put on Cullen and Hoerth back-to-back, and though I know Hoerth hated being the morning guy, he IS the perfect type of host for a morning show on that station and a "go on at 7 or else" would easily have made Hoerth EMBRACE the morning!
I have no doubt that CC partially made the move to protect the mothership (DVE), and it did hurt KDKA to lose Rush Limbaugh, I think we all agree on that, but CC also had an outlet for Rush in this market in 104.7. If 104 was still playing any of the various forms of music that failed on that signal instead of doing talk, they may have just left well enough alone and not bothered with pulling Limbaugh, but since they had a talk outlet, it only makes sense to have that valuable of a property under their own roof.
I don't know how the Boortz program worked over at 104.7. I may be mistaken here but I thought he was live from 10am-1pm, so I don't know if they taped delayed the whole thing or carried the last hour live then replayed the first two hours from 1pm-3pm. If it was all on tape and they let Boortz's meltdown on the air happen anyway, that is near inexcusable.
Hoerth was briefly the morning guy at WPTT for a little less than a year when Bowyer requested he be moved to afternoons to accommodate his now longer drive into the station, after moving from McKees Rocks to Boston PA and the fact he ws doing fill in work for Los Angeles, which left the station juggling its most effective lineup, which was Bowyer,Cullen, Hoerth to Hoerth, Boortz, Cullen, Bowyer. Bowyer then left, making the whole readjustment of the programming schedule to accommodate him a moot point, Hoerth was juggled back to afternoons, and Cullen was moved to mornings. In any incarnation they had however, the best numbers they got were during Cullen's show, and with Cullen doing middays with Bowyer as a lead in and Hoerth on afternoon drive, you had some audience that would tune in early and catch part of Jerry's show and stick around and catch part of Doug's show.
Hoerth actually didn't hate being the morning guy at WPTT, if anything he hated having the schedule bounced around to the point where he couldn't have the opportunity to build an audience. In the span of a year he was pulled from afternoons to mornings and no more than got comfortable doing mornings than he was put back on afternoons. He often on the air talked about his previous run in mornings on 1250, but that had to do with doing a 5 hour morning show (5am-10am) and the fact that station was constantly under threat of being sold and he was the last left of their talk lineup, creating a situation where every day he wondered if he would have a job. But the idea that he didn't want to go on at 7am at WPTT is a flawed one, management made the decision to put Doug back in afternoons and not Hoerth.
In any event, any syndication that WPTT offered for middays never held its audience. Hoerth's show was something that could hold an audience, but wasn't as strong at building one from scratch, which is what is required of a show that has a simulcast of the Channel 4 News as its lead in. You are absolutely correct that the station would have been better served to keep its live talent back to back in that regard. I would argue they would have been better off getting another live talent to replace Bowyer and maintained the idea that they were the only station in the market that was live and local all day long, but that costs money, and money wasn't being spent there. The advertising/promotion budget consisted of the original bus signs when they first started the talk format and nothing after that. Even now, the few billboards that pop up on electronic signs around the area are paid for by Ron Morris, not the station.
I don't know how the Boortz program worked over at 104.7. I may be mistaken here but I thought he was live from 10am-1pm, so I don't know if they taped delayed the whole thing or carried the last hour live then replayed the first two hours from 1pm-3pm. If it was all on tape and they let Boortz's meltdown on the air happen anyway, that is near inexcusable.
Hoerth was briefly the morning guy at WPTT for a little less than a year when Bowyer requested he be moved to afternoons to accommodate his now longer drive into the station, after moving from McKees Rocks to Boston PA and the fact he ws doing fill in work for Los Angeles, which left the station juggling its most effective lineup, which was Bowyer,Cullen, Hoerth to Hoerth, Boortz, Cullen, Bowyer. Bowyer then left, making the whole readjustment of the programming schedule to accommodate him a moot point, Hoerth was juggled back to afternoons, and Cullen was moved to mornings. In any incarnation they had however, the best numbers they got were during Cullen's show, and with Cullen doing middays with Bowyer as a lead in and Hoerth on afternoon drive, you had some audience that would tune in early and catch part of Jerry's show and stick around and catch part of Doug's show.
Hoerth actually didn't hate being the morning guy at WPTT, if anything he hated having the schedule bounced around to the point where he couldn't have the opportunity to build an audience. In the span of a year he was pulled from afternoons to mornings and no more than got comfortable doing mornings than he was put back on afternoons. He often on the air talked about his previous run in mornings on 1250, but that had to do with doing a 5 hour morning show (5am-10am) and the fact that station was constantly under threat of being sold and he was the last left of their talk lineup, creating a situation where every day he wondered if he would have a job. But the idea that he didn't want to go on at 7am at WPTT is a flawed one, management made the decision to put Doug back in afternoons and not Hoerth.
In any event, any syndication that WPTT offered for middays never held its audience. Hoerth's show was something that could hold an audience, but wasn't as strong at building one from scratch, which is what is required of a show that has a simulcast of the Channel 4 News as its lead in. You are absolutely correct that the station would have been better served to keep its live talent back to back in that regard. I would argue they would have been better off getting another live talent to replace Bowyer and maintained the idea that they were the only station in the market that was live and local all day long, but that costs money, and money wasn't being spent there. The advertising/promotion budget consisted of the original bus signs when they first started the talk format and nothing after that. Even now, the few billboards that pop up on electronic signs around the area are paid for by Ron Morris, not the station.
Word was that the switch to talk at 104.7 was made for two reasons: 1. Because FM talk would make the station successful and 2. It would take enough audience away from KDKA to let WDVE move up to No. 1 in the 12+ ratings and cement the perception that DVE was Pittsburgh's No. 1 radio station.
Successful on both counts.
Successful on both counts.
Correct. And the piece that gets left out of all of these discussions is that they considered Quinn absolutely essential to its success. In fact, it was a "no go" if they didn't get Quinn. Beyond that, the timing was great with Beck as he was really just achieving national notoriety when they signed it on (I used to listen to him as the local PM drive guy on WFLA in Tampa.. totally different show, with the funniest parodies of competing stations you have ever heard), and Ellis Cannon was a stroke of genius.
I would love to see Renda overhaul WJAS and turn it into a AM oldies station, playing music form the '50, '60's and '70's. With 3WS now trying to be WDVE Jr., and the vast oldies audience in this town, this would be a perfect fit. Concentrate on top 40 music from 1955-to say 1975 and you would fill a void missing on local radio right now. Remember how great WTAE was during the Ted Adkins era. It could work again on WJAS, with good oldies music (and I mean everything from doo-wop to Motown to British Invasion to MOR to Pop to Rock, etc., and some personable local jocks. Hey, it could be Bob/Oldies style.
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
IF WJAS actually did flip to oldies, I would expect Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel with the possibilty of live AM drive, Tom Kent evenings, and possibly a live TL style oldies show Saturday or Sunday night. They might include Sid Marks on week-ends. If Renda is cutting costs which it appears is the case, live and local 24/7 just doesn't sound reasonable.
Tony Renda is 100 percent reactionary and not proactive. The costs go up bit and his revenue is down, the cord gets kicked. Tony is the king of knee-jerk. Now that finacial companies like GE have tightened up bigtime "little" loans he has used to keep his mess propped up aren't generally available. Now he has to cut expenses even if it isn't a good long-term idea. That's the biggest reason for the current cord kicking.
Amen to that. He's such a backseat driver when it comes to running his company. The best thing that could happen to Renda Broadcasting is for the owner to go retire somewhere he doesn't own stations and leave the help to run the place properly. He is his own worst enemy. (but could NEVER see that in a million years)
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