Rent for the Transmitter WFLL

[Mike Sheridan]

Wow the rent ain't cheap at WEXY for WFLL to park their 1KW transmitter. $4200 a month with a 5% annual increase after the initial term. Power and phone not included, $8400 security. Might be better to take the money and go to Vegas!

 

[jmtillery]

I hear you. A trip to Vegas sounds good right about now. As for $4,200 per month for tower rent, that sounds reasonable for the area. A good operator can make WFLL generate more in advertising and NTR than the pay out for tower rent generating a nice little profit for the station owner. Was WFLL part of the sale with WFTL-AM 850? Anything worthwhile happening with 850?

 

[sundance kid]

I was in my car and turned on WFLL 1400. Dead Air. Again, came here and seen the new thread. Interesting info regarding the rent.

The above poster, JMTillery was asking about the sale that occurred with WFTL 850. You can catch up on all that on a few different Radio Discussion threads HERE

Info on the Tower is HERE

Both good reads to get you up to speed. There is more on the sale and JCR's problems here HERE and the Digity acquistion of the stations and sale to Alpha HERE, but these two links go offsite to the Radio Insight boards.

What I do recall, as far as the sale went: Jorgensen, the broker who gained control of the stations in the bankruptcy, had no bidders. Jorgensen contracted Palm Beach Broadcasting/Digity to run the stations. If you read HERE on Radio Insight, the Alpha deal on Digity closed. So, the JCR properties of WFTL 580 and WMEN 640 are now part of Alpha. From what I can see (to answer the above question), WFLL 1400 (our old beloved WFTL 1400) isn't part of the deal. It wasn't a PBB/Digity Property, and its not under the control of Alpha either.

It seems that WFLL 1400 is still held by Jorgensen, the broker, and there is a LMA with "Nossa Rádio 1400".

So, I would say WFLL 1400 is totally up for grabs. As all those above threads will tell you, the reason for the wanting to rent off the WEXY tower is because, WFLL was a long wire strung across a parking lot in Pompano Beach near Federal Hwy on Sample Road in a building that houses the Radio Nossa studios.

Anyway, thats my two cents. Amazes me how many of us remember and care about our old girl, 1400 WFTL.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I was in my car and turned on WFLL 1400. Dead Air. Again, came here and seen the new thread. Interesting info regarding the rent.

It seems that WFLL 1400 is still held by Jorgensen, the broker, and there is a LMA with "Nossa Rádio 1400".

So, I would say WFLL 1400 is totally up for grabs. As all those above threads will tell you, the reason for the wanting to rent off the WEXY tower is because, WFLL was a long wire strung across a parking lot in Pompano Beach near Federal Hwy on Sample Road in a building that houses the Radio Nossa studios.

Anyway, thats my two cents. Amazes me how many of us remember and care about our old girl, 1400 WFTL.

The rent at WEXY seems like a lot of money to me, but then I don't know much about the going rate. We are talking about a small space for a 1,000 watt transmitter and maybe a rack of audio equipment. Two racks wide at the most. With all due respect, the WEXY facility is hardly first class, with a tower much shorter than WFTL once had, it's a compromise at best.

Jorgensen's Dad was Wallace the president of Jefferson-Pilot Broadcasting for many years, a first class company. One would hope the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I care because Jefferson-Pilot's WBT and early in my little radio career WFTL-1400 were the two best stations I ever had the honor to work for. So yeh it's silly but I care, if I didn't I would never have gone into radio in the first place.

Long live "Gold Coast 14" and "The Voice of Broward" in my memory at least.

 

[jmtillery]

The rate isn't necessarily based on the amount of space so much as it is based on location when tower space in an area such as Fort Lauderdale is becoming more and more rare. Scarcity and demand determine rental and lease rates as well as selling prices. It's still less expensive than buying land and building one's own tower after years of dealing the the local zoning board, and, depending on tower height, the FAA. The rarer towers become, the more valuable existing ones become. And without a tower, there is no radio station.

 

[sundance kid]

The rent. I agree. I am not in the know for the going rates, but that does seem a like a lot of money. I will say this, its a clean site, but then again, the city of Oakland Park maintains most of it because under and around the tower is the city's Dog Park. Not sure what the Transmitter shack is like inside, but it's pretty small. But knowing engineers like I do, and their pride, I bet the X-mitter room inside is a beauty. But as you said, one rack two racks at most. Equipment for WFLL should fit just fine. But did you notice the price to rent on the tower doesn't include Phone or power? WFLL will have to pay rent, and a monthly phone and power bill, a security deposit and annual rent increases?

There has to be a patch of land with a strip mall or office park near it to accommodate a site and studio. I'd rather see WFLL be dark and have whoever look for real estate and build from scratch.


Now the inside of WEXY we can see. You mentioning that WEXY is hardly first class.

You can get a peak into the studios with the news story from Channel 10 Miami HERE. Pause it at 34 to 36 seconds in and you will see their control room and studios. As you can see, its pretty, well, not "first class" the Auralex is pretty ratty, and I recognize that board as a Pacific Engineering if a I am not mistaken; that's waayyy out dated and not even manufactured anymore. And I am seeing two casseette decks, CD players and it looks like mini disc players on the top. And I see a mic mixer on the very top, so I bet that is mixing the mics out of their talk studios. And it doesn't have the mainstay of ALL of today's radio studios: a computer running music, spots, or for production. So, yeah, its hardly "first class."

During the post Daytona 500 interviews, Richard Petty made a comment about Danica Patrick, that she is in a nice well worn rut; she won't get any worse or better. She is what she is. And from the looks of this video of the WEXY studios, that quote applies. They have their little niche with African American and Baptist/Gospel Churches for those who don't want to drive or, or can afford the rates at WMBM 1490 in Miami which runs the same format.

Meanwhile, you can see in inside or Nossa Radio's studios in Pompano Beach HERE on their You Tube Page. Now, mind you, this is ALL Radio Nossa, that's not JCR's old stuff or Digity's. Nossa built their own studios and just buy the time on the X-Mitter. As you can see they are up to date and professional, a far cry from the WEXY facilities. Nossa's product is fine; they just don't have the X-Mitter facilities to match the studios. They are dark now in Broward. I wish them well and hope they get back on the air somewhere.

As for WEXY, a bit of history on WEXY and WAXY I found digging online HERE on a site by one named Larry Grinnell. I just added this last link for fun. Its a nice history lesson. He mentions WFTL 1400, WEXY when it was WIXX, etc. A good read for fans of our 'ol girl, WFTL (WFLL) 1400.

 

[sundance kid]

It's still less expensive than buying land and building one's own tower after years of dealing the the local zoning board, and, depending on tower height, the FAA.

Wow, that's very interesting. It's cheaper to rent . . . than to own/build. Well, then I guess this is a good deal then for WFLL after all. Like Mike said, about Jorgensen and Wallace, etc. That apple ain't falling far from the tree. WFLL will come back better than ever. These things take time. I mean, face it, WFLL has been through the ringer and Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[jmtillery]

It's less expensive to rent in some cases than it is to own. In the case of WFLL it has no tower of it's own. Therefore, it's a matter of getting the station on the air and compliant with FCC rules ASAP. Building a new tower will take many years and will be costly in legal fees since zoning is an issue. Also, acquiring land is costly. The issue is getting the station on the air from an actual tower ASAP as opposed to using a on-compliant wire running between two poles. In a major metro area such as Fort Lauderdale, there are few choices for a 1kw-U class C AM to have it's own tower. Sometimes owning can be cost prohibitive. When the station first went on the air, land was cheap because the ares was not as congested as it is now with development. Now South Florida land is more valuable for development purposes.

 

[Alan Michaels]

It's less expensive to rent in some cases than it is to own. In the case of WFLL it has no tower of it's own. Therefore, it's a matter of getting the station on the air and compliant with FCC rules ASAP. Building a new tower will take many years and will be costly in legal fees since zoning is an issue. Also, acquiring land is costly. The issue is getting the station on the air from an actual tower ASAP as opposed to using a on-compliant wire running between two poles. In a major metro area such as Fort Lauderdale, there are few choices for a 1kw-U class C AM to have it's own tower. Sometimes owning can be cost prohibitive. When the station first went on the air, land was cheap because the ares was not as congested as it is now with development. Now South Florida land is more valuable for development purposes.

Those WEXY towers are so short, I have bird houses taller. I would not pay that kind of money to be on those two short towers in a dog park next to 95. it's a joke. Sorry Mike the days of WFTL are gone.

 

[Ai4i]

I would not pay that kind of money to be on those two short towers in a dog park next to 95.

Actually, that one tower, as WFLL will not likely be directional.
For two towers, the price would be considerably more, then add phasors, detuners, etc.

 

[sundance kid]

You can see WEXY's Xmiter site at 26° 10' 26" N, 80° 09' 27" W, HERE on Google Maps in the "Earth" mode. A Class B Station. Its 5000 day (recently upped over the last couple years from 3000) and its directional at night at 800.

You can clearly see the tar paper Xmitter Shack on the interection of N.W 38th Street and the access road that runs parallel to I-95. You can clearly see the tower, to the left, diagonal to the Xmitter Shack. If you click and pull the Google Earth Photo down, you'll see WEXY's second tower (because they are 800 w and directional at night) at the rear of the surrounding dog park with a fence around it, just beyond the green pavillion.

Not sure which tower WFLL would be placed on. The main tower for WEXY (in the middle of the dog park) is short and stubby. The tower in the back of the park is a bit taller.

I knew someone who worked there years ago, before the dog park was built. WEXY was homeless and they actually broadcast out of the windowless concrete bunker transmitter shack see in these pics.

Radio Locator is listing WFLL as "Currently Off the Air." It is, in fact, in need of one tower, non directional, one pattern at 1000 watts, and (in need) of one tower.

 

[jmtillery]

I would not pay that kind of money to be on those two short towers in a dog park next to 95.

Assuming there are no other towers available and assuming the station is making money or potentially can make money, you would rather shut the station down because you would not want to be on a tower located in a dog park? It really make no difference where the tower is located so long as a station can get it signal to cover the desired market area. The station may not be worth the tower rent, but I can tell you it is worth nothing off the air.

 

[sundance kid]

Assuming there are no other towers available and assuming the station is making money or potentially can make money, you would rather shut the station down because you would not want to be on a tower located in a dog park? It really make no difference where the tower is located so long as a station can get it signal to cover the desired market area. The station may not be worth the tower rent, but I can tell you it is worth nothing off the air.

I agree. The towers being in a dog park have no bearing. If it was just a field of wheat grass that needed to be bush-hogged once a month, does that make the towers more desirable to rent space on? If anything, the dog park improved the property (Oakland Park really did "knock it out of the park," it is a very nice facility, and popular one at that).

And when I use the word "shack," as in "transmitter shack," I don't mean that as derogatory; its just a word one uses in radio. The building itself is actually well maintained, painted, clean, and solid, with two well maintained towers. So, now that I understand the costs of rent vs. own when it comes to towers, and you look at the property, and facility, its a good deal, the rental deal, that is.

I guess since the Rock, out on Rock Island, where the old WRDB / WCKO building sits (now home to 1470 WWNN / Beasley) on a wheat grass field -- and isn't multi-purposed as a dog park or nicely landscaped -- those towers would be more desirable to rent space on?

One thing is true: What happened with WFLL 1400, and its deterioration, is criminal. Can't believe it was allowed to happen.

 

[sundance kid]

Just in case anyone in South Florida wants to know what's going on with KBXD 1480 in Dallas, which is also dealing with the JCR bankruptcy fallout, you can read about over on the Dallas Fort Worth Radio Discussions board HERE. Like with our old WFTL 1400, KBXD has a beloved past in that market as KBOX "Wonderful K Box" and "Big Top Radio." Check them on Wikipedia as well.

 

[davideduardo]

Just in case anyone in South Florida wants to know what's going on with KBXD 1480 in Dallas, which is also dealing with the JCR bankruptcy fallout, you can read about over on the Dallas Fort Worth Radio Discussions board HERE. Like with our old WFTL 1400, KBXD has a beloved past in that market as KBOX "Wonderful K Box" and "Big Top Radio." Check them on Wikipedia as well.

That "wonderful past" was nearly 50 years ago. It came to a total halt when Arbitron combined the Dallas and Ft Worth markets, leaving the KBOX 500 watt night signal in the dust.

 

[sundance kid]

That "wonderful past" was nearly 50 years ago. It came to a total halt when Arbitron combined the Dallas and Ft Worth markets, leaving the KBOX 500 watt night signal in the dust.

Yes, quite aware of what you have stated and quite up to speed on the history of KBOX, as it is extensively discussed at length on the two links noted above (that return you to the Dallas Fort Worth boards). The point being made that two stations, that is WFLL and KBOX, had image and histories and were totally destroyed and ground down to less than stick value, in the wake of the JCR bankruptcy. If you read this board and the Dallas boards, you'll see that many have nice memories of both stations and it just makes them sad that things have come to this. That was the point of making a post to link back to the Dallas boards, so Miami Lauderdale folks can piece together and have fun speculating what may happen with WFLL based on what's going on at the Dallas station.

 

[jmtillery]

With few exceptions, AM radio in general across the board has lost value over the years. However, I have a feeling AM will make a comeback. Not necessarily as a music medium, although I will not rule it out. You never know until it happens.

 

[sundance kid]

With few exceptions, AM radio in general across the board has lost value over the years. However, I have a feeling AM will make a comeback. Not necessarily as a music medium, although I will not rule it out. You never know until it happens.

I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment.

I too would like to see AM radio make a comeback (and I think Mike Sheridan would as well) partly, as a music medium. I think niche formats that go wide and deep; formats that provide unique, off beat programming -- would work. With today’s automation systems, voice tracking, and digitized music providing a massive library to choose from, it can be done cost effectively, I feel.

Formats such as blues, or a blues/rock hybrid. Perhaps a classic rock format that plays off the nostalgia of the birth of progressive FM radio in the ‘60s and plays music that classic rockers no longer air. I also think “Classic Country” -- which KBXD 1480 in Dallas is using a “place holder” (according to their boards), and what WFLL experimented with for several months (but never fully committed to it) -- would work, provided the station fully commits to the format and doesn’t run as a glorified, voiceless mp3 player. Also, look at nostalgia format on the LPFM in Jupiter 100.3 WJUP, and the full service FM Legends 100.3 WLML, as viable options for WFLL-AM.

However, this is all wishful thinking on my part. Purely, fun, thinking out loud speculation not to be taken too literally and take out of context and tear apart point-by-point . . . .

The reality is, “brokering” is the name of the game. Brokering turns a quick, easy profit, whether it’s an all-encompassing variety format (whatever check clears to just keep the needles moving), or selling time within a format (such as the overused “religious” niche to appeal to churches), LMAs (such as WJCC 1700 Miami and WFLL 1400 Nossa Radio), or selling large chunks of most of the airtime to an entrepreneur who, in turn, resells airtime (something that Beasley does with WHSR 980 Pompano Beach, where their daytime weekdays are programmed by someone else).

These are all brokering options I see for WFLL 1400. Most likely what will happen: WFLL will get onto the WEXY tower and Radio Nossa will continue to broadcast – only at a full 1,000 watts, and not at a pitiful 250 watts.

I found this article on Radio Ink. I was reluctant to post it, because I hate when threads on these boards digress and veer wildly off-topic, however . . . the last part of the interview, under the question, “Do you think we are headed down that road?,” specifically speaks of the issues with AM radio in Florida. Thus, I felt the article was a relevant contribution to the WFLL conversation of this thread and doesn’t to off topic. Read it HERE by Randy Michaels.

I also, just discovered some additional relevant discussions in this old RD thread about the whole JCR / WFLL issue HERE, entitled “Buy Yourself a Radio Station.” I especially enjoyed the explanations regarding the three most common values placed on broadcast properties of Fair Market Value; Stick Value and Liquidation Value by Mr. Tillery. “Stick Value” was a point I was trying to make a point of in an early post regarding WFTL/WFLL's deterioration that was, sadly, taken out of context, and sent things off topic.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

All good posts and I agree with everything said here, Alan, Sundance, David, and Mr Tillery you all said it well.

True it doesn't matter if the transmitter is in a dog park but the towers are hardly at an optimal height for 1400 and not even for 1520. The true test will be how the signal gets out when it goes on the air.

I was in the WEXY transmitter shack briefly many years ago. I remember it as being small and not very impressive. WEXY was using a long extinct ITA transmitter at 1,000 watts using one tower. I know today they are running more power and a directional two tower array. From what I see on Google it looks like the same building.

The decline of the 1400 site on NW 21 Av has a long story, I'll try to keep it brief, this is to the best of my knowledge. Owner of 1400 sold some or all of the land around the transmitter site. Whoever bought the land put up a tower right next to the 1400 tower. This caused a problem for 1400 and a detuning skirt had to be installed on this new tower. After that the 1400 tower was blown down by hurricane Wilma and never rebuilt. 1400 in what must have been some clever engineering goes up on the detuning skirt of the nearby tower. 1400 later gets kicked off the detuning skirt for various reasons, take your pick: Failure to pay rent, or interference with other services on the tower. In any case they are booted off and relegated to a wire antenna at the LMA site. Now the station is off TFN pending the move to WEXY.

I remember hearing 1400 then running a syndicated country music format on one of my trips to town in the spring of 2011. I was around Hollywood Blvd and I-95 and marveled at how good the signal sounded with 1,000 watts at night (compared to the 250 watts I worked with at night when I was there). It must have been on the detuning skirt at that time. Kudos to the engineer who was able to do that. If they can do as well on the WEXY tower they should be fine from an engineering standpoint.

 

[sundance kid]

True it doesn't matter if the transmitter is in a dog park but the towers are hardly at an optimal height for 1400 and not even for 1520. The true test will be how the signal gets out when it goes on the air.

Yes, the optimal tower height was Alan's main point, and not so much the dog park issues. And you are right, Mike. We have to wait and see how it sounds, covers when the move is done.

I personally, don't know where else WFLL can go. WEXY is located in the Downtown Fort Lauderdale area, somewhat near to the old NW 21 Avenue site, thus, WEXY is in a perfect spot to cover its intended market.

I mentioned WNNN 1470 out on Rock Island earlier, seen HERE on Google Maps at 26° 10' 46" N, 80° 13' 15" W.

There is also WLQY 1320 (WGMA "The Country Giant" R.I.P) at 26° 01' 53" N, 80° 16' 42" W seen HERE on Google Maps. That's owned by Entravision.

And there's WHSR 980 AM (the old WWNN "Motivational Radio" and "980 GOLD" as WBSS), that's now out in Parkland at seen HERE on Google Maps at 26° 20' 06" N, 80° 15' 55" W. That's owned by Beasley, like WWNN 1470.

WWNN, WLQY, and WHSR all have superior tower heights to the WEXY facility, but seem to far west (and in the case of WHRS, to far west and north). I'm not an engineer, but relocating WFLL 1400 too far out of Fort Lauderdale would cause issues for other stations in Florida on 1400. Also, at 1,000 watts, and being so far west and/or north, WFLL wouldn't be able to cover / reach into the Fort Lauderdale area. Their signal would splash out into the Everglades.

And would Beasley or Entravision even want to get involved? Both companies are solid and I don't think they'd care too much about the additional income. WEXY, on the other hand, looks like they could use the additional income, based on the view of those studios (from the Channel 10 news story noted previously).

At least at WEXY's less than optimal tower height, WFLL may not cover all of Broward like in the old days, but at least it would be able cover it's intended market of Fort Lauderdale. I just want to see it off that long wire at 250 watts, and get back to health. If WEXY is the only way to do it, so be it. As Mr. Tillery pointed out, buying land and starting from scratch won't work. Renting is WFLL's only option.