RESEARCH COMPANY: 10% WILL DROP CABLE/SATELLITE BY 2016

[Robnoxious]

Radio streams are easy to find. Even though the NFL says that audio streams need to be silenced during games (so they can get their cut in on that action), the small market stations affiliated with WW1 more than likely do not. The NFL doesn't seek out and send cease and desists to Podunk, Iowa or Nome, Alaska for forgetting to turn off their stream. The Top 50 radio markets comply but when you get down to the high 100++ it's still a free for all.

 

[recto101]

Everyone says they will, but do they? Certain people have to have cable/dish as they get no OTA or the signals are unreliable unless you have a good outside antenna. And not everyone can have one of those either.

With AT&T joining the Internet cap, I think that is going to be the way of the future. Internet usage will go back like it was in the mid 90s when AOL charged by how long you were on the Internet. You will be charged by how much bandwidth you use.

This would easily stop service like Netflix and push people back into cable/U-verse set ups.

Xfinity Started this Internet cap as eary as 2008-2009. but I heard that UK, South Korea and Japan Started expanding bandwidth in 2008 and has better web Quality than the USA. I think it should be that to improve web quality in the USA we have to pay for the Number of Downloads and Monthly bill to imrpove and expand Bandwidth.

 

[landtuna]

Has anyone who likes live sports cut the cord?

Yup. Two years ago. Couldn't justify the cost. I do miss college football but can catch some games on the local OTA channels and others on the Net. Most NASCAR races I can get over the Net although it may be in a foreign language and PQ isn't the best.

I probably miss Turner Classic Movies more than anything else but I can get some of the stuff they show via online downloads.

 

[landtuna]

That's a good point. Now with these digital signals only going 25 miles, a lot of
people need cable/satellite.

I don't know where you get the idea that digital signals only travel 25 miles.

Just a statement, not written in stone. Most of the low powers don't even go that far!

Yes, they do (unless they're translators or LPTVs, of course, then they might not). Now if somebody doesn't have the proper antenna, then that's a different story.

Hint: Directivity is your friend, just like with analog TV. VHF/UHF propagation doesn't change with transmission mode. It'll be the same in analog or digital, but because of the nature of digital transmissions, the station will just go away rather than get snowy or ghosty.

If you're behind a hill or in a valley, you may not get anything. If a plane flies overhead, instead of ghosts, the phasing problems will cause the picture to go away. If you walk in between your rabbit ears and the station, the picture might go away. But a weak signal that would provide a snowy picture on an analog station can still give you a perfect picture in digital, provided that there isn't anything getting in the way of a clean (no phase distortions) signal.

I've got a different "experience" than you do. I live 8 miles line-of-sight from South Mountain yet cannot receive all stations transmitting from there cleanly 24 hours per day. For instance:

All the VHF stations have pixelation at times due to: wind (not necessarily dust) and the sun setting during summer. 10 was terrible immediately after the digital conversion but has improved since. 8 and 12 remain affected.

UHF stations 3, 5, 15 and 45 come in fine virtually all the time. 61 is almost useless at sundown and 51 is a no show most of the time during daylight. I do receive the LP's pretty good but their PQ and/or programming is generally so poor they aren't worth watching.

For the record, I have separate TV's on three different antennas: 2 inside combo VHF/UHF and one outdoor traditional VHF/UHF. None of them work significantly better than the others.

 

[Robnoxious]

Xfinity Started this Internet cap as eary as 2008-2009. but I heard that UK, South Korea and Japan Started expanding bandwidth in 2008 and has better web Quality than the USA. I think it should be that to improve web quality in the USA we have to pay for the Number of Downloads and Monthly bill to imrpove and expand Bandwidth.

I see the US going the direction Australia does in terms of bandwidth. Pretty must all of Oz is capped and the penalties for overage are massive. The allotment Australians are given for any given month are laughable. I've chatted with many an Aussie that says just using Youtube too much hits their bottom line. A service like Netflix or Hulu would put them into the poorhouse.

 

[KeithE4]

By the way, even though I live about six miles from the station (on-site tower), I have to move the antenna into a weird leaning position in order to maintain a steady OTA signal.

Sounds like some kind of multipath or other phasing issue. Leaning the antenna is probably canceling the "bounced" signal out.

 

[FreddyE1977]

I don't think people are nearly as dissatisfied with the DBS providers as they are with the likes of Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Kabletown. Err, I made that last one up.

My experience after having DirecTV for a couple of years is that they aren't perfect, but they are a helluva sight better than Comcrap ever was.

 

[KeithE4]

I've got a different "experience" than you do. I live 8 miles line-of-sight from South Mountain yet cannot receive all stations transmitting from there cleanly 24 hours per day. For instance:

All the VHF stations have pixelation at times due to: wind (not necessarily dust) and the sun setting during summer. 10 was terrible immediately after the digital conversion but has improved since. 8 and 12 remain affected.

I still don't understand why you're having so many problems. You're not too far from me (Tempe?), and I don't have anywhere near the problems you're having. I'm in Ahwatukee, in a 2nd-floor apartment facing southeast, about 5 miles from the towers (NW of me). The only problems I have are when I walk in front of my rabbit ears (multipath and signal blocking), when a plane flies over (again, multipath), and the issue with the late-afternoon sun. That only happens during the spring & summer when the towers are in-between the sun and my antenna. I have no idea why this happens unless it's a solar noise issue that never affected analog signals for some reason. And it only happens on the UHF channels - never on 8, 10, or 12.

Wind problems could be the result of tree limbs blowing around, which could cause multipath and signal loss at UHF. And I think Channel 10 recently raised their power. They used to give me some problems early-on as well. Dust and those thick monsoon clouds will also cause these problems. Again, it's a UHF thing.

UHF stations 3, 5, 15 and 45 come in fine virtually all the time. 61 is almost useless at sundown and 51 is a no show most of the time during daylight. I do receive the LP's pretty good but their PQ and/or programming is generally so poor they aren't worth watching.

I have problems with 51 and 61 as well, but since I rarely watch either one, I don't worry about it much. The only LPTVs that are good in my area are 7 and 44. All the others are erratic at best, and some don't come in at all. But if I point the antenna out the window (Terk rabbit-ears with a directional UHF), I can get 4, 6, 13, and 18 from Tucson.

For the record, I have separate TV's on three different antennas: 2 inside combo VHF/UHF and one outdoor traditional VHF/UHF. None of them work significantly better than the others.

Do you have a preamp on any of them? If you do, maybe disconnecting it would help. A poorly designed preamp will overload itself and/or the front end of the TV. In both cases, intermod will result, causing false signals - some that end up inside the channels you want to watch.

 

[landtuna]

Do you have a preamp on any of them? If you do, maybe disconnecting it would help. A poorly designed preamp will overload itself and/or the front end of the TV. In both cases, intermod will result, causing false signals - some that end up inside the channels you want to watch.

I do not have amplified antennas.

It does sound like we are both having essentially similar problems with yours being slightly attenuated due to your compass position. I am along Warner Road east of the towers so almost exactly due east of South Mountain.

I didn't mention 7 before but I rarely have a problem with it and 44 comes in with a strong signal as well.

You mentioned that walking between the tower and your antenna resulted in loss of picture. That happens to me on the indoor antennas as well. But it also happens if you walk behind the antenna in line with the tower. I had never seen that on analog.

 

[KeithE4]

Do you have a preamp on any of them? If you do, maybe disconnecting it would help. A poorly designed preamp will overload itself and/or the front end of the TV. In both cases, intermod will result, causing false signals - some that end up inside the channels you want to watch.

I do not have amplified antennas.

Preamps are unnecessary in any strong-signal area. But check for feedline issues, especially on the outdoor antenna. Are you using good cable-quality RG-6 coax or the CB radio-style RG-59 (which should never be used for TV)? Or, worse yet, twin-lead with a balun and VHF/UHF splitter?

It does sound like we are both having essentially similar problems with yours being slightly attenuated due to your compass position. I am along Warner Road east of the towers so almost exactly due east of South Mountain.

This may sound silly, but maybe you're getting multipath from the signal bouncing off the mountain itself. You're almost directly in-line with the mountain, which is something I don't have to worry about.

I didn't mention 7 before but I rarely have a problem with it and 44 comes in with a strong signal as well.

Too bad 44 doesn't have anything to bother with. 7 at least has Me-TV. ;D

You mentioned that walking between the tower and your antenna resulted in loss of picture. That happens to me on the indoor antennas as well. But it also happens if you walk behind the antenna in line with the tower. I had never seen that on analog.

I'll have to check that out. It only happens on my kitchen TV with the cheap $20 rabbit ears with the UHF loop and almost-useless phasing switch. I had cable when the analog stations were shut off 2 years ago, and was living in another place, so I don't know if my current setup would have affected analog signals or not.

 

[TomParks]

I cut the cord last winter and so far so good. I put up an outdoor antenna and get 12 stations, plus I invested in a small FTA ku-band dish. Alot of neat stuff on there including sports. I cant wait to try it out come football season. So I went from $70.00 a month to zero not too bad. Adding nexflix for movies would still be alot cheaper than pay tv.

 

[landtuna]

Preamps are unnecessary in any strong-signal area. But check for feedline issues, especially on the outdoor antenna. Are you using good cable-quality RG-6 coax or the CB radio-style RG-59 (which should never be used for TV)? Or, worse yet, twin-lead with a balun and VHF/UHF splitter?

The indoor antennas are all running very short RG-6 coax. The outdoor does have a much longer run and there is one section that is RG-59. I'll replace that section and see if it makes any difference. Since the performance of the indoor and outdoor antennas are so similar I would think not but maybe......

This may sound silly, but maybe you're getting multipath from the signal bouncing off the mountain itself. You're almost directly in-line with the mountain, which is something I don't have to worry about.

Guess I'll have to petition the City of Phoenix to move the mountain. This might take awhile. ;D

Too bad 44 doesn't have anything to bother with. 7 at least has Me-TV. ;D

44.4 is something called Family TV and does have an occasional good old movie (broken up by an overkill of spam commercials). Unfortunately it does not have an EPG nor are the Titan TV guides correct for this channel (even when a movie title is listed, which isn't often). I've pretty much given up trying to watch it.

 

[KeithE4]

The indoor antennas are all running very short RG-6 coax. The outdoor does have a much longer run and there is one section that is RG-59. I'll replace that section and see if it makes any difference. Since the performance of the indoor and outdoor antennas are so similar I would think not but maybe......

RG-59 has 7 to 9 dB of loss per 100 feet at UHF. RG-6 is a bit better, at about 5-6 dB. The shielding on RG-6 cable is much better, as is the quality of construction overall. It's not a good idea to combine the two types.

Nor should you have any connectors inline, even if you're using the same type of cable. They could contribute to excess loss due to age and weather. Just use one length of RG-6 coax, with a connector at the antenna and one at the TV (or splitter if you're connecting to more than one set).

 

[landtuna]

Just use one length of RG-6 coax, with a connector at the antenna and one at the TV (or splitter if you're connecting to more than one set).

I'm used to running coax but was just too lazy to climb down off the second story to fetch the proper cable. : I did not think there would be this much difference in analog vs digital signals from the same cable though. No problems at all with the same antenna and cable on analog. Major problems immediately after the digital conversion.

 

[KeithE4]

Just use one length of RG-6 coax, with a connector at the antenna and one at the TV (or splitter if you're connecting to more than one set).

I'm used to running coax but was just too lazy to climb down off the second story to fetch the proper cable. : I did not think there would be this much difference in analog vs digital signals from the same cable though. No problems at all with the same antenna and cable on analog. Major problems immediately after the digital conversion.

Don't forget, the transmitter powers are much lower now than they were for analog. I don't care what the FCC says, they're not allowing the equivalent to the old analog coverage areas. But at 20 miles or less, there should be plenty of signal, at least from the full-powered stations. There shouldn't be any weak-signal issues anywhere in the Phoenix metro, except in areas blocked by Camelback Mountain, Squaw Piestewa Peak, or Shaw Butte/North Mountain.

The poor shielding of RG-59 can allow the signal to bleed right through the cable, which can be another source of multipath. Also, if the connectors aren't perfect, then cross-modulation and intermod can occur - another source of problems. You want the signal to arrive only via the antenna itself.

 

[dhett]

I'm used to running coax but was just too lazy to climb down off the second story to fetch the proper cable. : I did not think there would be this much difference in analog vs digital signals from the same cable though. No problems at all with the same antenna and cable on analog. Major problems immediately after the digital conversion.

Don't forget, the transmitter powers are much lower now than they were for analog. I don't care what the FCC says, they're not allowing the equivalent to the old analog coverage areas. But at 20 miles or less, there should be plenty of signal, at least from the full-powered stations. There shouldn't be any weak-signal issues anywhere in the Phoenix metro, except in areas blocked by Camelback Mountain, Squaw Piestewa Peak, or Shaw Butte/North Mountain.

The poor shielding of RG-59 can allow the signal to bleed right through the cable, which can be another source of multipath. Also, if the connectors aren't perfect, then cross-modulation and intermod can occur - another source of problems. You want the signal to arrive only via the antenna itself.

Maybe that's the problem, as I live in the same general area as both of you - 56th/Ray/Kyrene/Chandler - and have no signal problems whatsoever. My setup is simply an indoor batwing antenna in the attic and split between two TVs. No amps or fancy anything, but I am using RG-6 cable exclusively.

In addition, I use a tuner stick attached to an indoor antenna and my laptop and have checked out signals from all over the valley. No problems, except in NE Phoenix behind the mountains. The V's come in at 100% up by Surprise Stadium.

One thing I've noticed with V's is that they're highly sensitive to the length of your dipole antenna. A fully extended dipole sometimes won't bring in ch 13, and if the dipoles are fully retracted, you can usually forget about channel 7 (RF ch 7, not virtual ch 7).

 

[mnradiofan]

I certainly haven't cut the cord, but I've cut way back. This fall, I'll "likely" be cutting back to just basic with no digital expanded (channels 1-100 basically). This part of my bill is paid by my HOA, which is in turn paid by me, so I can't cancel it. Even with that said, they only pay $30 per month, so I only pay that, small price to pay.

I LIKE having access to the programming, as broadcast programming has become stale. But, I do also get a lot of content from Netflix, and for that reason I don't subscribe to any premium channels, unless doing so will LOWER my bill.

I don't really see the internet as the future for TV. Even though I stream tons of stuff, I see bandwidth caps pretty much killing that off within 10 years. Sad, because it really had potential. But, we don't fight back, and the country we live in is bought and paid for by companies like AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast. When your ISP has a vested interest in you taking the much more profitable video packages, OF COURSE they are going to try to stop you from streaming video online. Personally, I'd rather have an unmetered 5mbps connection than a 20mbps connection that allows me to only use 250GB. Caps are silly anyways, because once the initial investment is made for the wired services, bandwidth to push through it is pennies. Limiting how much I can get PER SECOND makes more sense, because that has more impact. If I am constantly using 20MBPS, that is 20MBPS that isn't available to my neighbor on cable. But, if I download 251GB's of data, its not like there won't be enough megabytes left for my neighbors, or the rest of the internet.

 

[mjlarochelle]

In Canada, some Internet providers have caps of only 25 GB/month with a speed of 5 Mbps. Is that comparable to U.S. providers?

Oddly enough though, I work for a cable company that exists mostly in rural communities, and our Internet is 20 Mbps with no cap. You can't get that in most of the big cities.

 

[landtuna]

Oddly enough though, I work for a cable company that exists mostly in rural communities, and our Internet is 20 Mbps with no cap. You can't get that in most of the big cities.

And the reason is bolded, above. The big cities have many times more users trying to use the same size pipe you have in Jasper Junction. BTW though....that is rapidly changing as fiber is replacing copper. My local DSL provider offers a top speed of 40Mbps and the local cable provider offers a top speed of 50 Mbps. I don't know how reliable those numbers are as I'm perfectly happy with 1.5M download and .8M up.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I didn't get cable until DTV. With the antenna I have pointed away from most of the stations I get on cable, I got nearly perfect performance at first from five stations and their subchannels, if any. One by one, most of these stations have had significant problems at times.

One station performs perfectly, or nearly so, just about all the time. But I tend to keep the TV on the channel which I record "The Simpsons" from, even though I have seen just about all the episodes. It helps if I rewind through what I recorded because if the other station oncable airs the same episode, I don't have to see as much to know I've seen it. But instead of "The Simpsons", this station has been airing the hit show "No Signal" almost all the time lately. Even though the transmitter is in the same place as another station that does well. And both stations are on nearly the same actual channel.

I have another antenna that isn't nearly as good but I keep it on "Roy's Folks", a local news report sort of like Charles Kuralt. Some days the signal is perfect. Some days there's lots of pixellation and I just have to go to the web site a few days later.

If I wanted to watch the stations that are actually on my cable system, I'm sure it would be a nightmare even if I got an outdoor antenna. Aside from having to hire someone--no, don't tell me I can do it myself, because I know I can't--I don't know where it would go.

Imagine what it's like for people out in the country as I am who don't have cable. Just a few hundred feet down the road that's how it is. They don't get to pay for the cheap package with just WGN and the broadcast channels, as far as I know. And they're the ones who need it the worst.