• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Retro: C-Band Satellite/Satellite TV Week, Tue. September 16th, 1986 (long thread)

Ho-ly-crap. The one that Grandad recorded has "Rudolph" (KOIN) in its entirety followed by the Muppet special (KATU). I assure you that it is not the specific tape that you had, though, since mine is in the cabinet right next to where I am sitting! Did they record the PLUS and Thriftway commercials before the Muppets?

I guess '87 must have been a good year for recording CBS and ABC Christmas specials.

If your disc recorder grabbed the EIA-608 tracks, kick your TV set into text 1 or 2 during the Muppet programme. You know, since I know you like historic TV listings...

Someday, somehow, that 5 1/2-hour or so tape will appear on Archive. I just need to figure out how to get it all into the computer seamlessly, then figure out how to upload the whole potentially 10+ GB mass over this POS slow Commielink DSL.
Old Scotch tape BTW. Cuts from Rudolph at the very end (right as the Rankin-Bass logo comes on) to the start of Muppet Family Christmas, and no local ads prior to the Muppet show. But it contains all the national ads, starting with the Oshkosh B'Gosh one. There are local ads at the 1/2-way mark for Dairy Queen, Dairy Farmers of Oregon, and David Apple doing a KATU weather teaser for the 11:00 news.
Tape was found at an estate sale in May 2019 in Yakima. Two movies taped off IFC in the '00s recorded over anything else. You know, before they went to sitcom reruns and junk.

Often the ABC tapes trigger the CC demonstration text on my screen..."Welcome to this demonstration of Closed Captioned television" and it goes on and on talking about its benefits.
I can't get Text 1 or 2 to work on any ABC tapes, just the CC track on CC-1. If it was a crummy SLP tape, half of it is missing.
 
Last picture of the feeds BTW. In this one, notice that whoever did Family Feud (Ray Combs) fed the entire week at 2AM on Friday. I am guessing for the next week's episodes. They did the same with Rescue 911 for syndication, Empty Nest, and Wavelength (a short-lived teen newsmagazine). The whole NBC Sunday Movie fed at midnight on Thursday morning (3:00 AM ET), but I did not find the ABC or CBS movies. This particular week (ending with 1/30/94) it was likely canceled due to the impending Super Bowl broadcast, or it was fed for the movie on the following week.
And 'Scramble' didn't mean T2-7 scrambled at that time! It was Randall Cunningham's short-lived game show for children, fed twice during the week.
On Saturday at 4 AM they fed 20/20, likely for the next week's show. So Hugh and Barbara taped episodes 1 week ahead? Interesting...
Pictures from Satellite TV Week to follow if I can find this particular week's issue. I have about eight issues from 1985-86.
 

Attachments

  • P1090236 (1).jpg
    P1090236 (1).jpg
    115.6 KB · Views: 19
Pictures from that September 1986 Satellite TV Week...this should take you back, oldradiotapes! :)
 

Attachments

  • P1090238.jpg
    P1090238.jpg
    382.4 KB · Views: 27
  • P1090239.jpg
    P1090239.jpg
    387.7 KB · Views: 25
  • P1090240.jpg
    P1090240.jpg
    387.5 KB · Views: 20
  • P1090241.jpg
    P1090241.jpg
    360 KB · Views: 18
  • P1090242.jpg
    P1090242.jpg
    374.9 KB · Views: 20
There are local ads at the 1/2-way mark for Dairy Queen

...And boy, do I have memories of that particular DQ! Mother and I used to make an habit of going there for sundaes every time we were at the (now sadly long, long gone) Jantzen Beach mall. That, the Rax and the merry-go-round there were probably the most compelling reasons I could come up with for going to Hayden Island as a kid!

I can't get Text 1 or 2 to work on any ABC tapes, just the CC track on CC-1. If it was a crummy SLP tape, half of it is missing.

Odd. Mine is in SLP mode too (albeit on TDK tape) and it has it, so perhaps either the original VCR back in '87 was a piece of crap that must not have recorded them, or your disc recorder didn't pick the text streams up (i.e. recorded them to /dev/null)? The demonstration loop aired on CC2. CC1 is supposed to be the regular programme subtitling.

If that's the case, and disc recorders have tendancy to mess up incoming EIA608 data streams from analogue sources, then that's definitely something I'll need to take into account since I need to shop for some equipment to do video transfers with...

Pictures from that September 1986 Satellite TV Week...this should take you back, oldradiotapes!

Huh.... they had grids clear back in '86. So I guess that means the stint in the late '90s must have been an experiment that didn't work out since there were a lot more satellites operating in-the-clear just over a decade or so later. I do remember the rows being a lot more squashed-down than the ones shown in your pictures.

By the way - Westar 1 tp 18 5.58 MHz FTW. That *had* to have been Environmental (it's SES-3 tp. 22 audio-PID 7522 today). That was definitely a simpler time, before "Music Plus" and FM-squared. But they curiously don't list Foreground Music One even though I'm certain it was on the air by that time. (It started out via satellite in 1985 then migrated to tape, and eventually disc!) Maybe the STW editors just hadn't heard about it yet or they were slow to add it?

That Seeburg "Lifestyle" feed, as I understand, originated from an SABMC2 cabinet at their uplink centre in Raleigh, NC, playing the same records as sent to on-premise clients. (The "Lifestyle" series records, which IIRC replaced the "Basic" library at some point in the '70s, do run sometimes on Denny Hankla's 1000 stream today.) Seeburg satellite was a VERY short-lived service operated by Seeburg Phonograph Company (post-Stern Electronics era) and was only active for a few years in the mid-'80s. It was kind of their last-ditch attempt at keeping the aging 1000 product line something sort-of resembling alive. It ultimately flopped from low subscribership and increasingly dated music, a couple years or so before Seeburg Phono itself croaked in '89. Don't know what "Lifestyle AC" was though. Maybe it was their attempt at a Foreground Music One-like service?

AEI Music bought the uplink facility as surplus for basically pennies on the dollar when Seeburg Phono were liquidated in 1989, and operated their satellite service from there until it was merged with DMX's kit in after the buyout in 2002.
 
Last edited:
So they started as a satellite service? I thought Muzak began with LP records of instrumentals, then went to tapes and eventually added satellite later.
There were a bunch of in-store music networks on Spacenet 3, tp 18 between 5.2 and 7.4mhz in the '90s according to another C-Band chart I found online. Also a bunch on K2 Ku-Band and Galaxy 4 Ku-Band but they were FM Squared (FM2). I wonder who these stores were? I'd assume Kroger and Safeway were a couple of clients on satellite at that time, maybe some department stores or restaurant chains?

Oh, and BTW, enjoying those old AEI tapes you posted recently to Archive. And since you're knowledgeable with that equipment, curious question: Can you also play Muzak Tones or equivalent 4-track cassettes in an AEI player? I keep seeing them pop up on eBay even though I don't have a player...
 
Last edited:
So they started as a satellite service? I thought Muzak began with LP records of instrumentals, then went to tapes and eventually added satellite later.
Muzak began as a wired service using their own or leased lines, and when FM could add SCA services, they began distributing their service on local FMs using dedicated SCA receivers. Many local stations created their own background service using their SCA and locally produced music from records.

In fact, in several nations in Latin America in the 60's (Mexico, Chile and Perú being three of them) early FMs ran no commercials and made their money from the SCA service to stores.

The concept of "wired music" was created in the 1920's, and developed nationally in the 30's.


For many years, starting in the 50's, Muzak produced a lot of its own music, just like Shulke, Bonneville and the group of Independent Beautiful Music stations.
 
Last edited:
^-- What David said. Muzak did make 33 1/3 RPM vertical electrical transcriptions of music (which do show up on E-Bay quite regularly) for both third-party musicians and by their in-house bands for their own service, which were used for their early broadcasts. Muzak initially broadcast via power lines in New York City (a service called "Wired Radio" which later became Muzak) then started leasing broadcast-grade telephone lines from Ma Bell, which lasted (for the most part) until the late 1950s when cheaper/more efficient/cheaper SCA replaced it pretty much everywhere. They still kept some of their wireline syndication infrastructure in place to directly feed FM stations that weren't running Muzak off reel-to-reel tapes, but their wire-to-subscriber service was dead in the water by the start of the 60s. Then once they began satellite broadcasting in the mid-70s, it killed off tape and wireline syndication entirely (yet, strangely, it would take satellite until 2007 to completely annhilate their remaining SCA service nationwide).

also play Muzak Tones or equivalent 4-track cassettes in an AEI player? I keep seeing them pop up on eBay even though I don't have a player...

Short answer: it depends. Muzak had two different, incompatible Philips cassette systems in place for its run of that format and the later/latter of them was identical of AEI's format.

Long answer:
The main differences are in the track layout and playback speed. Their original format was the horrific kludge that was the CP1600, a dual-deck 1 7/8 or 15/16 IPS switchable machine (the latter was hardly ever used for music) and was the one IIRC databits did an analysis of some years ago on Youtube. This big, heavy, 19" rack-mountable monstrosity played cassette tapes in the forwards direction only, tracks 1 and 2 being on side 1 left and right (when compared to a "normal" cassette, anyways) and 3 and 4 were "side 2" right and left, respectively - I put "side 2" in quotes because there really isn't a "side 1" or "side 2" in 1600-land. In fact if you were to play such a tape on a conventional 2-channel stereo deck then the "side 2" tracks appear both swapped and reversed - they actually (literally) are playing backwards. In other words, think of the way they'd be laid out on a multi-track endless loop tape like a 4-track Fidelipac and that's basically like what you have here. (If you download the unprocessed PCM files of, say, "American Graffiti" or "Rock of the 80s" and analyse them in Audacity you can see this for yourself.) WTF? Well, basically, at the end of each track is a 25 Hz cue tone used to signal the deck to rewind the tape back to the start and to switch to the next track. Not kidding. It actually had to rewind the entire 45-minute (or however long) cartridge just to start the next segment of the programme. Slow, inefficient and actually fairly unreliable, though it didn't stop them from operating the service in that format until they said "enough" and finally started playing with......

AEI's smaller, simpler, efficient and all around much more elegant Propac 4, which Muzak called the "CP2500". This system is a proper bidirectional 4-track system, albeit running at 1 2/5 IPS (3/4 of the 1 7/8 IPS conventional Philips cassettes and most CP1600 tapes used). The decidedly odd speed was a compromise between runtime and audio quality - high-end response especialy benefits from the higher speed afforded by being between half-speed (15/16) and full-speed (1 7/8). This also made it possible to record up to an hour on a single track of a then-common 90-minute cassette (45 minutes per side). 120 minute blanks were available on the market and they could have just as easily designed it as a 1 7/8 machine and used them, though they weren't as common because the thinner tape gave them an odd stigma of being fragile and unreliable. At the very least it did increase the print-through slightly. (Funny. I suppose on some decks theywould be problematic, but I used them for years with almost no ill effect, except for a Walkman that would get hungry from time to time and crunch one up... but then, it would do that even with 60 and 90-minute carts, which use thicker tape.) Track layout is side 1 1L 3R and side 2 4L 2R....and yes, there really is a "side 2" in PP4/CP2500. At a minimum, when duplicating to the computer, all you would need to do is play both sides into Audacity, speed-correct them by -25.000% then split them into mono tracks. A lot of them could benefit from an additional slight speed reduction (between -1.75 and -2.5%) because I think they both had mastering equipment that ran too slow, therefore the music always sounds pitched-up. Muzak's version of the Propac, at least initially, differed from the AEI unit cosmetically. Muzak's machine had a slider volume control and 4 LEDs to indicate track (like most 8-track players had) whilst the AEI machine had rotary tone and volume controls and an 8-segment numeric LED display.

So, Muzak published cassettes under the Tones label (and later the generic Muzak label) for both the crappy 1600 and the slicker and cooler Propac. If you have a Propac machine then tapes recorded for the CP2500 will play on it ("Motown III" is in this format - again, grab its unprocessed PCMs and compare it to those of one of the AEI tapes) and vice versa with AEI tapes and a Muzak 2500. In fact later in its run, after 2002, Muzak actually discontinued the 2500 and started distributing surplus AEI Propac machines, ostensibly purchased from DMX, and refitted them with Muzak logo decals where the AEI ones were!

Now, "equivalent" tapes: well, maybe, assuming they're at least recorded at the speed the unit expects (1 2/5). You can actually generate tape-out files for it by speeding your audio up to +33.3% (yes, tyhat's right, 33 and one-third) and compiling them using the 1L3R/4L2R mono track layout, then recording them to a cassette. 25Hz is optional; Muzak's literature claims the 2500 can use it but AEI didn't seem to, at least not in any of the tapes I have. I can't guarantee they'll sound very good, but as proof-of-concept or for experimentation it'd be fine. I think AEI and Muzak actually used to boost the treble response when preparing their masters to compensate for the high-end loss that would have happened running at the lower-than-normal speed; if they did then (to my infection- and 500-800cc motocross engine noise-damaged ears, anyways) it seems to have worked.

There you go.
 
Last edited:
Correction: The CP2500 had the rotary volume control whilst AEI's unit had the slider. Muzak's also had a membrane keypad for its playback controls whereas the Propac used several red plastic buttons (though it was probably still the same membrane underneath, like most mainstream computer keyboards use). Beyond the cosmetic differences of their front panels, the two functioned exactly the same and would play each other's tapes.
 

Attachments

  • cp_2500_user_manual.jpg
    cp_2500_user_manual.jpg
    365.6 KB · Views: 7
As for wrestling: GWF (Global Wrestling Federation) was satellite-fed, while WWF Superstars/Wrestling Challenge and WCW Worldwide were still sent to stations via FedEx/UPS; but by the mid'-90s starting with Shotgun Saturday Night, WWF/WWE would finally switch to satellite distribution for their syndicated shows.
 
Vince McMahon was late in transitioning to satellite! I guess the WWF thought that duplicating 175 tapes of that week's Superstars (from the master) and transporting them on UPS next-day mail to the stations, was better than uplinking it at a certain time during the week. I wonder who else did the same? Can't imagine there were many other syndicated shows sent by videotapes in the early-mid '90s. Infomercials, on the other hand, were often sent to stations on tape. I've seen Betacams sold on eBay that had 28:30 infomercials on them with certain 800 numbers on the labels.
 
Have you seen Ronco syndication tapes on there? (Disclaimer: I've never looked.) Better grab them now if you find one; they're liable to shoot upwards in value on the collector's market soon if they haven't already......
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom