"Retro": Miami Top 40s vs Billboard Top 40

[cd637299]

Hi

I am starting a similar thread to musiconradio's, because it's not quite the same subject.....

I suppose it's only because when I was a teen in the 70s I started listening to Casey Kasem AND checking out the free Billboard mag in our library, to see the national Top 40.....but.....

It seemed to me that even though Miami had three top 40 stations in the late 70s, all of them had what was called the "Q format," only playing the top 12 or so, and filling time with recent hits & older gems.

Oh it worked all righty, but I think that the public was missing out on some of the other big hits, possibly because the DJ's or PD's only liked certain songs. I know that Y100 played "Stairway to Heaven" a lot, and I figured it was an excuse to take a break or something!

I know that Miami is and was a unique market, but was not only limited on the variety of hit songs; but also, because of the lack of variety of hit material, and the "recents" getting so much play, that unless the artist was from here (like KC or Sound Machine), the T40's here seemed afraid to "break out" other tunes. The rest of the country heard most songs before we did.

Some exceptions were like the band Starz, who plugged a (free?) concert in 1976, and Y100 broke out "Cherry Baby" (yeah #33 ha ha) to go along. In fact, the Sylvers' "Boogie Fever" seemed to stay on Y100's top 30 chart all year! (Kinda like Billboard's Adult Contemporary chart today!!) Natch, it was the #1 song for the year.

What was the reasoning for this? I just felt that Miami was so behind-the-times. I know I'll get flak for this post, but I know that often we were the last to hear a new song.

cd

 

[davideduardo]

It seemed to me that even though Miami had three top 40 stations in the late 70s, all of them had what was called the "Q format," only playing the top 12 or so, and filling time with recent hits & older gems.

In the late 70's we had lost one Top 40 due to license revocation and we did not see I-95 util the next decade was underway. It was, most of the time, Y-100's show.

And Y-100 was very, very personality driven (Tanner, Footie, The Madame, Cox on the Radio, Mark in the Dark, etc.) and had a relatively deep playlist for a true Top 40.

Oh it worked all righty, but I think that the public was missing out on some of the other big hits, possibly because the DJ's or PD's only liked certain songs.

Actually, Y-100 was one of the very, very first stations to do callout research and it started in "the late 70s" and was actually computerized (on a S-100 Bus system, no less) by 1980. The station was very responsive to listeners, and if the "Thanks to Y 100 for breaking the song" plaques in the hallways meant anything, it was also open to lots of new music.

I know that Miami is and was a unique market, but was not only limited on the variety of hit songs; but also, because of the lack of variety of hit material, and the "recents" getting so much play, that unless the artist was from here (like KC or Sound Machine), the T40's here seemed afraid to "break out" other tunes. The rest of the country heard most songs before we did.

Miami was something like market 20 until the stations voted to consolidate Dade and Broward in one Arbitron market in 1981. So the national Billboard charts, based still on sales, reflected the musical average of the whole country, while Miami was to some extent quite different. So the Miami stations played the Miami hits, and the Billboard chart was always off to some extent for any region of the country and did not really reflect radio anyway. It did, though, reflect all that free product retailers were given to report songs to radio!

What was the reasoning for this? I just felt that Miami was so behind-the-times.

What you had was a very dominant personality driven station with a deep list, yet you call it a "Q Format." I'm guessing that you are confusing the early 70's with the mid to late 70's or you really were not listening.

 

[cd637299]

Not to argue, but a "deep list" just seemed to include recents that may have dropped off the national top 40. I wasn't kidding about "Boogie Fever."

It's possible that they experimented more after midnight.....I seem to remember a totally obscure tune that I think Y100 played---it was called "Lonely Railroad Ties" by the band Back Pocket....this was WELL after midnight.

I don't even care for contemporary music now anyway....so I cannot even compare then to now.

I wanted to mention also that WQAM added "I Like Dreamin' " by Kenny Nolan at the time it entered the top 10 nationally...in about its 18th week or so!

Also I remember WFUN's last 2 days or so....somebody called in to thank them for playing songs that others wouldn't ("For the Love of You" by the Isleys was one he mentioned). I wasn't into WFUN much in the mid 70s (as apparently others weren't), but I never really realized about the playlist. But then, I wasn't obsessive until then!

I'm older now.

cd

 

[davideduardo]

Not to argue, but a "deep list" just seemed to include recents that may have dropped off the national top 40. I wasn't kidding about "Boogie Fever."

A smart station with callout research did not drop a hot song till it was over. Since Y 100 was research driven (there were 6 callout "booths" about 50 feet from my office) they would not drop good songs to go on new ones just to make the record ducks happy.

When Y 100 started doing callout, it was among only four or five stations that were doing it then. So, we had the sales driven, highly "influenced" Billboard chart vs. local research on a very highly rated FM. The chances are that the Y 100 list was more reflective of reality than nearly any other list available.

The airplay based lists were in Gavin, the Hamilton Report, even FMQB. When I did FM Top 40 in the early 70's in another Southern market, we did not even subscribe to Billboard.

I don't even care for contemporary music now anyway....so I cannot even compare then to now.

While some people continue to like things they grew up on, they miss absolutely fantastic songs by Lady Gaga, Black Eyed Peas, etc.

I wanted to mention also that WQAM added "I Like Dreamin' " by Kenny Nolan at the time it entered the top 10 nationally...in about its 18th week or so!

WQAM was pretty much over with the debut of WMYQ in '72. So was WFUN. It took a few years for them to stop pretending, but the move to FM in Miami was very fast.

 

[cd637299]

I understand all that....I've never worked in radio like you have. I also understand that my likes are not as others'. My main issue was the lack of newer songs. As I listen to only oldies now, if I listen, it's not an issue with me now.

It just *seemed* as if Miami was 2 to 3 months behind other markets. That was except if it was a local band (KC)....then it was breakout city.

I also realize that Miami "broke out", in a sense, with one of the first major FM players in the Top 40 arena....so it wasn't like Miami didn't know how to run a railroad!

cd

 

[Mike Sheridan]

For new music in the '70's it all depended on where you listened. Believe it our not I remember a few times WFTL played songs way before they were added to Y-100's playlist. Strange but true!

 

[cd637299]

The former WQPD 1430 in Lakeland was the home of breakouts. They had songs on their chart that, it seemed, would debut on the Hot 100 later on.....of course, I'm sure there were non-charted ones as well, and maybe they played the game of let's-throw-it-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks.

And yes, I know....where are they now? AM was not the future....

cd

 

[John FL]

David, I found your details regarding callout research and all that went into creating playlists very interesting. Either I didn't know or I forgot that you were you were once apart of Y-100 back then. Wow, what a career memory that must bring.

I'm curious about one other thing. Was there any connection between music that became popular at the clubs to what eventually got on the air? Maybe it was a coincidence but I seem to recall many tunes such as "A Night to Remember" I mentioned in the other post heard in the clubs first - then Y-100. Were the non Billboard publications you mentioned ones to include more dance leaning tunes or did any of you guys decide to break out a song based simply on reactions and behavior observed in people at the local clubs?

 

[top4odj]

One thing i've heard for decades is that "Program & Music Directors ought to visit clubs" I remember on numerous occasions where I was out with friends who worked in clubs, a radio was on when the announcer said "Here's the new song by blah, blah, blah" and they'd look at me and mention that they've been playing the song for months or even close to a year at the club they worked at. For the most part, it still holds true today. Got to love the consultants who have the pulse of the market in mind. <NOT>

"Call out research" Ahhh the memories! That's what started my career in radio at WMYQ in 1975. I came in 4 evenings a week, from about 6-9 PM opening up a phone book and just randomly calling people with a list of questions about "their listening habits" If memory serves correct, it wasn't for a couple years after when they started playing bit's of songs over the phone to get the persons opinion.

The "Q" format was popular in the early to almost mid 70's. The then owners of wmyQ-Miami (Bartell Broadcasting) also had stations around the country..kcbQ-San Diego, wdrQ-Detroit, kslQ-St. Louis. The format concept was pretty much the same but was more tailored to the specific stations market. It's pretty much like "Jack" or "Hot-Hits"..again, same concept but tailored to the market it's in.

 

[Groove1670]

We have one interesting station in Pensacola called 107.3 the groove. Yes it is a clear channel station, but it doesn't follow the normal template of the other rhythmic AC stations (WMIA, WKTU etc). You can hear dance currents along with 80s pop in the mix. Much like WILV Love 100 in Chicago, before they adjusted the format a few months ago. Hopefully CC is giving the local programmers some choices to adjust the template to their market.

Stuart - Good list of songs on the previous post that wasn't big on AT40. Shalamar Full Of Fire & a night to remember are two others that come to mind. Also I remember hearing Spyrogyra, James Last Band, & Europa by Gato Barbieri in the mix and Malo - suavecito,

 

[davideduardo]

David, I found your details regarding callout research and all that went into creating playlists very interesting. Either I didn't know or I forgot that you were you were once apart of Y-100 back then. Wow, what a career memory that must bring.

Actually, I was GM of the sister station, but my wife(mid days and production director) and I did our Kendal to Hollywood daily commute listening at least half the time to Tanner in the Morning and Cox on the radio. Y 100 was just an incredible radio station and I loved being with it... the amazing FM.

I'm curious about one other thing. Was there any connection between music that became popular at the clubs to what eventually got on the air?

Clubs could be the source of a song or a genre, but mere club play did not make a song a hit.

There is a sociological term called Collective Effervescence that describes the behavior of masses, be it riots, raves or evangelical meetings. In a club, add in booze, babes (and hunks), whatever is being consumed in the stalls, dark lighting and loud music and you have totally different mood... and one driven by the crowd. So some songs cross, others dom't.

Maybe it was a coincidence but I seem to recall many tunes such as "A Night to Remember" I mentioned in the other post heard in the clubs first - then Y-100. Were the non Billboard publications you mentioned ones to include more dance leaning tunes or did any of you guys decide to break out a song based simply on reactions and behavior observed in people at the local clubs?

The "tip sheets" were based on radio play, not sales. And they included reports from stations all around the country. So we looked at the most added songs, the ones that were dropping, but mostly we looked at the stations that we most admired, often the ones closer by in similar markets. Before going to Miami, when I was at an AM FM in Birmingham in 72, we did modern AC on the AM and the station I looked at most because they made good new music decisions was WJDX in Jackson... The FM, one of the earliest FM Top 40 indies, looked at the less pop and dance side of Top 40... more Allman Bros. and less The Morning After... but we did not look at clubs as that was a very small part of the target audience.


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[Stormychuck]

DavidEduardo and Stewart Elliot can always be counted on for some solid South Florida radio backround. Y-100's the Madam is she still married to Bobby Caldwell? Mark in the Dark Shands
what ever became of him and where did he end up? And my bud DR. Dave Dunaway you wonder what became of all of em.

 

[MarkInTheDark]

During the peak of the Y, when it was rated #1 (which was the 70s), I remember us being very careful about adding new music. In most cases we wanted to see the song being a hit, before we added it. But we went on many new tunes too. Quite often that would be 1 or 2 new tunes a week. Compared to many top 40 stations where they'd add 5-6 new tunes a week. Y was very hit oriented.

Someone mentioned reacting to the clubs of Miami/Ft Lauderdale. We did react to songs that took off in the clubs, especially when the disco craze hit so big in S Fla. Later at I-95 we really used the clubs as a test market, carefully watching the local record sales to see which of the big club records were selling the best. This was during the peak of those 12-Inch club mix singles, which sold like hotcakes in S Fla!

Mark In The Dark Shands
now in Portland, Oregon

 

[Jay F]

Out of curiosity did Foxy-Get Off get a lot of airplay in Miami? I believe they were a local act. That was sure a fun song at the time...disco/dance/funk at it's most indulgent.

 

[MarkInTheDark]

Yeah callout really changed the hit game. For one thing, unlike sales info, callout couldn't be corrupted by the record companies, usually. Callout also favored schmaltz music, stuff like Air Supply, "Sailing" by Christopher Cross, "Always And Forever" by Heatwave. So, it wasn't perfect, but was a really useful tool for seeing what the more passive listeners actually liked or even more important, did NOT like or were tired of hearing. These days one of the problems with call out music research is that: 1. No one wants to participate in a telephone survey, and 2. Most young people use cell phones and cell phones are not as research friendly so far.

Jay F, Foxy "Get Off" was huge in S Fla

 

[top4odj]

Out of curiosity did Foxy-Get Off get a lot of airplay in Miami? I believe they were a local act. That was sure a fun song at the time...disco/dance/funk at it's most indulgent.

Yes and not because they were "Home Grown". Get Off was actually a strong hit record. I think it would have been as good in South Florida whether they were from here or not. Their follow up "Hot Number" was also good but IMO not as good as Get Off.

 

[MarkInTheDark]

Hey Stuart, remember "Mandolay" by La Flavor? Huge club record, sounded local, but was actually from somewhere like Cleveland!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUA6wFinobk

I think 3 of the biggest selling 12-Inch records were "Freak-A-Zoid" Midnite Star (which set a sales record) and "Let The Music Play" Shannon and "Flashdance" Irene Cara.

Later we had a big wave of Italian dance records that took over S Fla, like Fun Fun "Color My Love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIwP9Fkcnzk

 

[cd637299]

@MarkintheDark:

Spanish Clasica 92.3 here, www.clasica92fm.com , has the program "Disco Fiesta" M to F 5-7pm EST. "Mandolay" is on the rotation, as I am sure others from Y-100's heyday are.

I have not listened for a while....but I am sure it's still there. Clasica has had very respectable ratings the past 3 years or so.

(They moved to 92.3 from 92.1 in 1985.)

Edit: Oops, just checked the site....Disco Fiesta might be gone now. Still worth a check-out.....they may still have disco programs late Fri or Sat.

cd

 

[Groove1670]

Don't forget "Pac-Jam" and "Space Cowboy", and Manhattan Transfer's "Twilight Zone". Also B-52's "Rock Lobster" "Planet Claire".

Here is one for you.

NITEFLYTE - If You Want It
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1me5p-Bd6Rk.

 

[Groove1670]

*Delete* Browser locked up and did double post.