Retro: Upstate & Central New York Mon, Nov 23, 1959

[Bluenoser]

50 years ago today, from TV Guide's NY State edition

2 WKTV-ABC/CBS/NBC Utica
3 WSYR-ABC/NBC Syracuse
5 WROC-ABC/NBC Rochester
6 WRGB-NBC Schenectady
7 WCNY-ABC/CBS Watertown
8 WHEN-ABC/CBS Syracuse
10 WHEC/WVET-ABC/CBS Rochester
10* WTEN-CBS Albany
11 CKWS-CBC Kingston
12 WNBF-ABC/CBS Binghamton
13 WAST-ABC Menands (Albany)
19 WCDC-CBS Adams (//WTEN)
35 WTRI-ABC Troy (//WAST)
41 WCDA-CBS Albany (//WTEN)

Morning
6:00
2-3-5-6 Continental Classroom

6:20
10*-19-41 Elementary Subjects

6:30
2-3-5-6 Continental Classroom (c)

6:45
10*-19-41 Teacher Time

7:00
2-3-5-6 Today
8 Breakfast Bar
10 Mathematics
10*-19-41 Three Stooges
12 Ding Dong School
13-35 Breakfast with Hoppy

7:30
10 Pageant (it's a doc, no other info listed)
12 Breakfast Time

7:45
10*-19-41 Romper Room

7:55
8 Take Five

8:00
7-8-10 CBS News

8:15
7-8-10-10*-19-41 Captain Kangaroo

8:30
12 Captain Kangaroo

9:00
2 Cartoons
3 All Star Theater
5-13-35 Ding Dong School
6 Home Fare
7 Grade 12 English
8 These Things We Share
10-10*-19-41 Movie: TBA
12 Treasure House

9:10
8 Party Line
12 Cartoons

9:20
8 Magic Toy Shop

9:30
2 Good Living
3 Ladies' Day
5 Burns & Allen
6 TV Schooltime
12 Edge of Night
13-35 Movie: TBA

9:40
7 Grade 2 Math

9:45
8 Gal Next Door

9:55
8 Take Five

10:00
2-3-5-6 Dough Re Mi
7-8 Red Rowe (premiere)
12 Search for Tomorrow

10:15
10 En avant, marche!
12 Guiding Light

10:30
2-3-5-6 Treasure Hunt
7-8-10-10*-19-41 On the Go
12 I Married Joan

11:00
2-3-5-6 Price is Right
7-8-10-10*-19-41 I Love Lucy
12 Who Do You Trust?
13-35 Our Miss Brooks

11:30
2-3-5-6 Concentration
7 Theater
8-10-10*-12-19-41 December Bride
13-35 Life of Riley

Afternoon
noon
2-3-5-6 Truth or Consequences
7-8-10-10*-19-41 Love of Life
12 Three Stooges
13-35 Restless Gun

12:25
12 News

12:30
2-5-6 It Could Be You (c)
3 Jim Deline Gang
7-8-10-10*-19-41 Search for Tomorrow
11 Early Date
12 Homemaking & You
13-35 Love That Bob!

12:45
7-8-10-10*-19-41 Guiding Light
12 Meet Your Neighbor

1:00
2 Playhouse 60
3 Movie "Chip Off the Old Block"
5 Movie "Danger Woman"
6 Burns & Allen
7-13-35 Music Bingo
8 One for the Show
10 Stage One "Christmas for Sweeney"
10*-19-41 I Married Joan
12 Heart of the Home

1:25
8 Take Five
12 News

1:30
6 Trader Van
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 As the World Turns
11 Almanac
13-35 Medic

2:00
2-6 Queen for a Day
5 RAETA Presents (Milford Fargo takes kids to a candy shop...no word as to whether they bounced off the walls of 201 Humboldt afterwards )
7-8-10-10*-19-41 For Better or Worse
11 Chez Helene
12-13-35 Day in Court

2:15
11 Nursery School Time

2:30
2-3-6 Thin Man
5 Home Cooking
7-8-10-10*-19-41 House Party
11 Open House
12-13-35 Gale Storm

3:00
2-3-5-6 Young Dr. Malone
7-12-13-35 Beat the Clock
8-10*-19-41 Millionaire
10 Rochester: Where You Live "What Form of Metropolitan Government?" (guests Gordon Howe, Greece's town supervisor; and attorney Erwin Witt)
11 PM Party (guests the Williams Brothers and Martin Sullivan)

3:30
2-3-5-6 From These Roots
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Verdict is Yours
11 Movie "Portia on Trial"
13-35 Who Do You Trust?

4:00
2-3-5-6 House on High Street
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Brighter Day
13-35 American Bandstand (no info listed)

4:15
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Secret Storm

4:30
2-7-12 American Bandstand
3-5-6 Split Personality
8-10-10*-19-41 Edge of Night
11 Let's Look

4:45
11 Science Around Us

5:00
2 Movie "Remember the Day"
3-12 Popeye
5 Movie "The Fake"
6 Satellite Six
7 Our Miss Brooks
8 Movie "Havana Rose"
10 Ann's Attic
10*-19-41 Three Stooges
11 Youth '60
13-35 Little Lulu

5:30
3-10-13-35 My Friend Flicka
7 Kiddies' Karnival
10*-19-41 Annie Oakley
11 Teen-Age Dance Party

5:45
6 Breadtime Stories

Evening
6:00
2 Weather
3 Lawman
6-10 Quick Draw McGraw
7 Life of Riley
11 News/Weather/Sports
12 News/Weather
13-35 Movie "The House on 92nd Street"

6:05
2 Movie cont'd

6:15
11 Movie "Top Gun" (Western from 1955)
12 Ralph Carroll

6:30
2 News/Sports
3-8 News/Sports/Weather
5-10 News/Weather
6 Earle Pudney
7 Weather/News/Sports
12 Detectives

6:45
2 Three Stooges
5-6-7-8-10 News (likely network on most channels, given the timeslot; the listings didn't indicate who aired what)

6:55
6 Weather

7:00
3 Bold Venture
5 High Road
6 Lock Up
7 Leave It to Beaver
8 Ozzie & Harriet
10 Wyatt Earp
12 Fashions for Milady

7:05
10*-19-41 News/Weather

7:15
2-10*-19-41 News (network?)

7:25
13-35 News/Weather

7:30
2 Richard Diamond
3-12-13-35 Cheyenne (Clint Walker was that week's TVG coverboy)
5 Manhut
6 Grand Jury
7-8-10*-19-41 Masquerade Party
10 Sea Hunt
11 Don Messer (an unusual guest for the traditionally C&W/East Coast show...Pipe Maj. Harold Sutherland)

8:00
2-5-6 Love & Marriage
7-8-10-10*-19-41 Texan
11 Danny Thomas

8:30
2-13-35 Bourbon Street Beat
3-5-6 Wells Fargo
7 Sea Hunt
8-10-10*-12-19-41 Father Knows Best
11 Riverboat

9:00
3-5-6 Peter Gunn
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Danny Thomas

9:30
2-3-5-6 Goodyear Theater "Point of Impact"
7-8-10-10*-19-41 Ann Sothern
11 Jake Kane (guests Cab Calloway and Larry Adler)
12-13-35 Adventures in Paradise

10:00
2-3-5-6 Steve Allen (c/guests Mickey Rooney, Mel Torme, June Christ(?, the listings were folded as to cut off the end of the name in the fold ???), Miriam Makeba, and Belle Montrose (aka Steve's mom))
7 Phil Silvers (Sgt. Bilko)
8-10*-19-41 Hennessey

10:30
7 Goodyear Theater (see 9:30, 2-3-5-6)
8-10-10*-12-19-41 June Allyson "Night Out" (Ann Sothern stars here too)
11 Town Above
13-35 This Man Dawson

11:00
2-3-5-7-8-10-10*-11-12-19-41 News/Weather/Sports (11's includes CBC National News)
6 News/Weather
13-35 Movie "Strange Cargo"

11:15
6 Movie "Shady Lady"
7 Movie "Ghost Catchers"
10*-19-41 Jack Paar

11:20
8 Movie "Somewhere I'll Find You"
10 Movie "Ringside Maisie"
12 Movie "Mother Wore Tights"

11:30
2-3-5 Jack Paar

 

[Rob Jason]

3:30
2-3-5-6 From These Roots
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Verdict is Yours
11 Movie "Portia on Trial"
13-35 Who Do You Trust?

4:00
2-3-5-6 House on High Street
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Brighter Day
13-35 American Bandstand (no info listed)

4:15
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Secret Storm

4:30
2-7-12 American Bandstand
3-5-6 Split Personality
8-10-10*-19-41 Edge of Night
11 Let's Look

4:45
11 Science Around Us

5:00
2 Movie "Remember the Day"
3-12 Popeye
5 Movie "The Fake"
6 Satellite Six
7 Our Miss Brooks
8 Movie "Havana Rose"
10 Ann's Attic
10*-19-41 Three Stooges
11 Youth '60
13-35 Little Lulu

So, it looks like AB wasn't carried in Syracuse at this time?? Any other Syracusans with a long memory care to comment -- if they remember watching it weekday afternoons? What channel did it show up on, since there wasn't a fulltime ABC affil in the 'cuse yet?

And I wonder how WCNY/7 in Watertown got their feed of AB -- I thought at this time they did not yet have a direct link to the networks, but got their multi-network programming from the Syracuse stations...

And, this guide leaves out three upstate stations -- WINR/40 Binghamton, WSYE/18 Elmira, and WPTZ/5 Plattsburgh...Then again, it doesn't show Buffalo stations, either...

And Bluenoser, for Rochester, does the guide distinguish when a show was carried by WHEC, or WVET -- since the two stations shared channel 10 at the time?

Great guide! Thanks for posting it!

 

[Bluenoser]

3:30
2-3-5-6 From These Roots
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Verdict is Yours
11 Movie "Portia on Trial"
13-35 Who Do You Trust?

4:00
2-3-5-6 House on High Street
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Brighter Day
13-35 American Bandstand (no info listed)

4:15
7-8-10-10*-12-19-41 Secret Storm

4:30
2-7-12 American Bandstand
3-5-6 Split Personality
8-10-10*-19-41 Edge of Night
11 Let's Look

4:45
11 Science Around Us

5:00
2 Movie "Remember the Day"
3-12 Popeye
5 Movie "The Fake"
6 Satellite Six
7 Our Miss Brooks
8 Movie "Havana Rose"
10 Ann's Attic
10*-19-41 Three Stooges
11 Youth '60
13-35 Little Lulu

So, it looks like AB wasn't carried in Syracuse at this time?? Any other Syracusans with a long memory care to comment -- if they remember watching it weekday afternoons? What channel did it show up on, since there wasn't a fulltime ABC affil in the 'cuse yet?

And I wonder how WCNY/7 in Watertown got their feed of AB -- I thought at this time they did not yet have a direct link to the networks, but got their multi-network programming from the Syracuse stations...

And, this guide leaves out three upstate stations -- WINR/40 Binghamton, WSYE/18 Elmira, and WPTZ/5 Plattsburgh...Then again, it doesn't show Buffalo stations, either...

And Bluenoser, for Rochester, does the guide distinguish when a show was carried by WHEC, or WVET -- since the two stations shared channel 10 at the time?

Great guide! Thanks for posting it!

WPTZ was in the St. Lawrence edition, Buffalo stations were in the Lake Ontario edition. I remember seeing listings for the Binghamton edition online (IIRC they listed Syracuse, Bingo, Elmira and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre), so WINR and WSYE were likely in there.
The listings didn't indicate as to which version of WHEC-WVET carried programs, hopefully someone out there may know a little more as to how the two stations divvied up the airtime. The stations also had separate studios, with WHEC at 40 Franklin St and WVET at 17 Clinton Ave S.

 

[Ultimajock]

10:00
2-3-5-6 Steve Allen (c/guests Mickey Rooney, Mel Torme, June Christ(?, the listings were folded as to cut off the end of the name in the fold

...probably June Christy, the former vocalist with Stan Kenton's band; I seem to recall that, as they were both signed to Capitol Records in much of the '50s, Torme and Christy cut a few duets together...

 

[Ultimajock]

4:30
2-7-12 American Bandstand

So, it looks like AB wasn't carried in Syracuse at this time?? Any other Syracusans with a long memory care to comment -- if they remember watching it weekday afternoons? What channel did it show up on, since there wasn't a fulltime ABC affil in the 'cuse yet?

And I wonder how WCNY/7 in Watertown got their feed of AB -- I thought at this time they did not yet have a direct link to the networks, but got their multi-network programming from the Syracuse stations...

...probably kinescope...

 

[therealjm12]

So, it looks like AB wasn't carried in Syracuse at this time?? Any other Syracusans with a long memory care to comment -- if they remember watching it weekday afternoons? What channel did it show up on, since there wasn't a fulltime ABC affil in the 'cuse yet?

No AB was not on in Syracuse until WNYS Ch 9 signed on a couple years later. Of course Dick Clark is from Utica and worked, at one time, at WKTV. So WKTV did carry the 4:30 -5:00 segment -the one with the guest stars He did go to S. U. and worked at WOLF so there is a Syracuse connection, too.

My older siblings and cousins were addicted to AB. Who was dancing with who and the special guest stars mouthing the words to their hits. In fact, my cousin actually bought a special antenna to put on his roof so he could pull in WAST in Albany. He and his buddies would invite "special" female guests to watch the whole show. Both parents worked. They would watch the first half hour on the snowy but watchable WAST then switch over to WKTV, and the final half hour on WAST -or until my Aunt & Uncle got home.

Interesting that TV guide listed the CBS affiliation for WKTV. The relationship had ended by that time. Something happened to sour that relationship, but whatever it was has been lost to the ages. But because of that, Utica has never gotten a CBS affiliation to this day. WKTV has always been a primary NBC affiliate from day one. It works out because WKTV shows up strong east and actually does well in the Albany market. So WKTV has always been well compensated by NBC.

 

[Rob Jason]

So, it looks like AB wasn't carried in Syracuse at this time?? Any other Syracusans with a long memory care to comment -- if they remember watching it weekday afternoons? What channel did it show up on, since there wasn't a fulltime ABC affil in the 'cuse yet?

No AB was not on in Syracuse until WNYS Ch 9 signed on a couple years later. Of course Dick Clark is from Utica and worked, at one time, at WKTV. So WKTV did carry the 4:30 -5:00 segment -the one with the guest stars He did go to S. U. and worked at WOLF so there is a Syracuse connection, too.

My older siblings and cousins were addicted to AB. Who was dancing with who and the special guest stars mouthing the words to their hits. In fact, my cousin actually bought a special antenna to put on his roof so he could pull in WAST in Albany. He and his buddies would invite "special" female guests to watch the whole show. Both parents worked. They would watch the first half hour on the snowy but watchable WAST then switch over to WKTV, and the final half hour on WAST -or until my Aunt & Uncle got home.

Interesting that TV guide listed the CBS affiliation for WKTV. The relationship had ended by that time. Something happened to sour that relationship, but whatever it was has been lost to the ages. But because of that, Utica has never gotten a CBS affiliation to this day. WKTV has always been a primary NBC affiliate from day one. It works out because WKTV shows up strong east and actually does well in the Albany market. So WKTV has always been well compensated by NBC.

Sounds like you lived in the Mohawk Valley.

I would guess that the old WHEN/channel 8 had something to do with WKTV not carrying CBS programming.An engineer at channel 3 in syracuse once told me someone had come up with a way to squeeze in a channel 4 in Utica (probably the same way ch. 2 was squeezed in -- between channels 2 in NYC and in Buffalo -- by putting the actual tower northeast of Utica), but that WHEN/WTVH may've objected, because then they would lose their exclusivity to broadcast CBS to Utica.

And I still find it hard to believe that WSYR and WHEN did not pick up AB in Syracuse -- especially since Clark was an S.U. grad, had worked in Utica just down the road, and Syracuse was a top 50 market back then, etc. I mean, I believe you -- it is just unbelievable.

And as for WCNY/7 carrying it on kinescope, that's probably what happened. An old-timer at ch. 7 told me about the days they'd get kines from the network, and they would splice in the commercials on film, so it was one big reel.

 

[therealjm12]

I would guess that the old WHEN/channel 8 had something to do with WKTV not carrying CBS programming.An engineer at channel 3 in syracuse once told me someone had come up with a way to squeeze in a channel 4 in Utica (probably the same way ch. 2 was squeezed in -- between channels 2 in NYC and in Buffalo -- by putting the actual tower northeast of Utica), but that WHEN/WTVH may've objected, because then they would lose their exclusivity to broadcast CBS to Utica.


More history of Central NY TV: Channel 4 was dropped into the Utica market. No one seems to know exactly when (maybe Scott Fybush might have some info). I do know it was known in the mid 80's when WKTV was up for sale and the idea of another VHF -and possibly a CBS affiliate was a factor at the time. The deal fell through. It may have been there in the early 60's with all the channel swapping in upstate NY.

What I do know, is that Roy H. Park certainly would have put a channel 4 on the air instead of channel 20 (WUTR) if he had known it was available back in 1969. Park Broadcasting was a fairly sophisticated operation and if a "V" was available it would seem like they would have gone after it. But that being said, Uncle Roy did have his compliment of 5 "V"s and WUTR would have been his 2nd "U"- the F. C. C. limit at the time. So why didn't some else go after channel 4 if it was available?

I did meet Roy Park once and discussed with him WUTR. He did try to get CBS affiliation for WUTR-TV 20. CBS rejected the affiliation on the grounds they were not accepting any UHF stations as affiliates. I knew of only a very few CBS UHF stations. One, ironically, owned by Park in Birmingham Al. Obviously Meredith and WTVH blocked the Utica affiliation. Park was very bitter about it since he owned five CBS stations in some pretty decent sized markets. He found out he had very little influence at CBS. To this day, I can't figure out why Utica does not have a CBS station since it has all the other nets. I can't believe WTVH has the power to block it anymore since they have definitely gone down the tubes and a mere shadow of what they once were.

 

[Ultimajock]

I did meet Roy Park once and discussed with him WUTR. He did try to get CBS affiliation for WUTR-TV 20. CBS rejected the affiliation on the grounds they were not accepting any UHF stations as affiliates. I knew of only a very few CBS UHF stations.

...interesting, since CBS had once bought two UHF stations in Milwaukee -- the license and transmitter of former ABC/DuMont affiliate WOKY-TV/19 and the studios and offices of CBS affiliate WCAN-TV/25 -- and merged them into WXIX/19, which CBS owned and operated for four years. On the other hand, in Madison, Wisconsin, the original CBS affiliate was WKOW-TV/27 in June 1954; when WISC-TV/3 took to the air, CBS bailed out on WKOW and 27 in turn took the ABC affiliation away from WMTV/33, leaving 33 with NBC...

 

[W2JUV_AL]

Re: Channel 4 allocation for Utica?

Circa 1988-89 I worked with a fella who lived near the WKTV Tx tower in Middleville. He became concerned when a company obtained an option to buy property near his house with the intention of erecting a TV tower. We checked and found an application had been filed for a full-power CP on Channel 4. I told him not to worry because CBS affiliates WRGB-Schenectady and WTVH-Syracuse provided good coverage to the east and west of Utica, respectively. Also Utica was becoming a shrinking market and probably not on the CBS radar screen. Fox was fledgling in those days. That one obviously never got built.

Fast forward to the mid/late 90's. Another full-power CP application filed for Channel 4. Proposed tower location to be in Forestport NY, near the former Air Force test site, probably 25 N.E. of Utica. The CP was never granted. DTV plans were being developed and may have been a factor in denying the CP.

 

[Bob1370]

Couple additional points to raise here..

First, the WHEC/WVET share-time arrangement...they had a split schedule arrangement in which one day, WHEC programmed from sign-on through the dinner-hour local news, then the channel switched to WVET just before Douglas Edwards' newscast began and carried through prime-time, the late local news and the late movie. The next day, WVET handled morning and afternoon programming while WHEC aired primetime and late news and movies. The two organizations (Gannett, which controlled WHEC, and Veterans' Broadcasting, which ran WVET) were both primary CBS affiliates and made joint arrrangements with each other and with WROC on which ABC shows they'd carry. The arrangement lasted almost eight years, from the time the Channel 10 joint license signed on the air in November of 1953 until mid-1961, when Gannett bought out Veterans Broadcasting's half-share in Channel 10 and Veterans used the cash to turn around and buy Channel 5, WROC-TV (the NBC affiliate). They still worked out a joint arrangement to split ABC shows...until WOKR signed on the next year on Channel 13, at about the same time Syracuse fired up Channel 9.

As to why Utica never got a fulltime CBS affiliate...while Meredith owned WHEN-TV it carried a lot of weight with CBS, since Meredith owned CBS affiliates in several markets (Syracuse, Kansas City, Flint-Saginaw-Bay City and Omaha come to mind immediately) and they were easily able to convince the net that they could cover Utica from their transmitter on Sentinel Heights. They did put a big signal out, but having four lucrative markets in their portfolio probably meant most to the network brass. Yes, indeed, Meredith got itself grandfathered as the CBS franchisee for both Syracuse and Utica-Rome. The Utica area could have had a Channel 4 station 50 years ago on purely technical grounds, since a channel 4 transmitter co-located with WKTV easily would meet all technical parameters in the FCC rules. But the Feds decided to allocate only one VHF station to the market in 1952 (first Channel 13 and later Channel 2). That lasted until the mid-80s, when Channel 4 was assigned to Utica. But by then the market had shrunk, and questions about spectrum use for digital TV pretty much blocked that allocation from being used almost as soon as it was put in the books. Theoretically someone could come in and ask for a Channel 4 CP even now--if you could get a CP to operate a digital signal with enough power to overcome all the electrical noise that hurts low-band VHF signals.