H
Hamp
Guest
Why doesn't St. Louis have a Rhythmic CHR station??? Does anyone think the market could support one???
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It could, but who is going to flip to Rhythmic? And if it happens, you can bet that WHHL and KSLZ will be ready to counter with tactics of their own.
I think WHHL started off Rhythmic but its main target was KATZ so it was actually Mainstream Urban. Movin 101.1 would have been the perfect choice to go Rhythmic after the Rhythmic Hot AC format failed but Bonneville doesnt do Urban formats. Clear Channel could do that with 100.3 since its already had 3 formats. It wont hurt KSLZ.
H
Hamp
Guest
Why doesn't Emmis just flip K-Hits 96 or CBS Radio flip Y-98?wdb2003 said:I think WHHL started off Rhythmic but its main target was KATZ so it was actually Mainstream Urban. Movin 101.1 would have been the perfect choice to go Rhythmic after the Rhythmic Hot AC format failed but Bonneville doesnt do Urban formats. Clear Channel could do that with 100.3 since its already had 3 formats. It wont hurt KSLZ.
Hamp said:Why doesn't Emmis just flip K-Hits 96 or CBS Radio flip Y-98?
K-Hits is one of the two highest billers in the Emmis cluster and has been the top biller on more than one occasion. Also, Emmis previously said CHR wouldn't work in St. Louis and would be eating crow if they were to launch a CHR derivative.
Y-98 outbills its ratings share by nearly 2:1. It makes way too much money.
Kent said:Hamp said:Why doesn't Emmis just flip K-Hits 96 or CBS Radio flip Y-98?
K-Hits is one of the two highest billers in the Emmis cluster and has been the top biller on more than one occasion. Also, Emmis previously said CHR wouldn't work in St. Louis and would be eating crow if they were to launch a CHR derivative.
Y-98 outbills its ratings share by nearly 2:1. It makes way too much money.
Isn't Y98 more or less evolving in Rhythmic CHR direction anyways? I hardly hear any songs before 2000 on that station anymore it seems.
H
Hamp
Guest
Actually it was John Beck who runs the Emmis cluster in St. Louis who made the stupid remark. I think the only reason why he did that because he didn't want to spend the money it takes to make a CHR format work.Kent said:Hamp said:Why doesn't Emmis just flip K-Hits 96 or CBS Radio flip Y-98?
K-Hits is one of the two highest billers in the Emmis cluster and has been the top biller on more than one occasion. Also, Emmis previously said CHR wouldn't work in St. Louis and would be eating crow if they were to launch a CHR derivative.
Y-98 outbills its ratings share by nearly 2:1. It makes way too much money.
H
Hamp
Guest
Also, K-Hits and K-SHE somewhat overlap anyway. Wouldn't it make more sense to combine the stations and use the other frequency for rhythmic CHR? Just saying.Kent said:Hamp said:Why doesn't Emmis just flip K-Hits 96 or CBS Radio flip Y-98?
K-Hits is one of the two highest billers in the Emmis cluster and has been the top biller on more than one occasion. Also, Emmis previously said CHR wouldn't work in St. Louis and would be eating crow if they were to launch a CHR derivative.
Y-98 outbills its ratings share by nearly 2:1. It makes way too much money.
Hamp said:Also, K-Hits and K-SHE somewhat overlap anyway. Wouldn't it make more sense to combine the stations and use the other frequency for rhythmic CHR? Just saying.
Those are the #1 and #2 billers in the cluster. Combining the two wouldn't make their ratings, or their rates, go up by the same amount. In other words, combining two stations with a 5.0 and a 4.0 share wouldn't equal one station with a 9.0. Plus, it would open their cash cow up to an outside attack. So, no, it wouldn't make sense in the least!
Didn't John Beck make the comment about CHR not working in STL in like 1997 or 1998? Thats 15 years ago. I wouldn't say Emmis would have to eat crow on programming a station that they said wouldn't work in the market when that much time has past. Sure, the demographics of the market haven't changed much, but there has been a shift in culture and music patterns that make CHR or a rhythmic leaning CHR have a much greater chance at success in 2012 than in 1998.
With that said, Rhythmic CHR really works best in large markets and the Southwest, where the population is either diverse and/or there is a large Hispanic population. STL falls into neither of these categories, so it would still be a tough road ahead. If Clear Channel wanted to do it, they probably would have evolved 100.3, but they're afraid (and rightfully so) of cutting into KSLZ. Emmis does the format successfully here in LA, but comparing the markets is apples and oranges, and they don't really have a viable candidate station for flipping in STL. KXOK would probably be the most likely fit, but for the station to work correctly, it would probably need a better signal.
In terms of programming, I think CBS would be the best choice, as their experience in flipping underperforming stations to rhythmic leaning CHR in the past few years has been admirable (Amp in Los Angeles and Detroit, Now in SF, etc), and they could best compete with Clear Channel head to head as they do with CHR in many markets now, but there is no way they're going to flip any of their current formats.
With that said, Rhythmic CHR really works best in large markets and the Southwest, where the population is either diverse and/or there is a large Hispanic population. STL falls into neither of these categories, so it would still be a tough road ahead. If Clear Channel wanted to do it, they probably would have evolved 100.3, but they're afraid (and rightfully so) of cutting into KSLZ. Emmis does the format successfully here in LA, but comparing the markets is apples and oranges, and they don't really have a viable candidate station for flipping in STL. KXOK would probably be the most likely fit, but for the station to work correctly, it would probably need a better signal.
In terms of programming, I think CBS would be the best choice, as their experience in flipping underperforming stations to rhythmic leaning CHR in the past few years has been admirable (Amp in Los Angeles and Detroit, Now in SF, etc), and they could best compete with Clear Channel head to head as they do with CHR in many markets now, but there is no way they're going to flip any of their current formats.
STL is a large enough market...
but Rhythmic CHR is a far and few format. Most stations that file/list as Rhythmic CHR are true Hip Hop stations - not playing a CHR format at all.
Take a look at those stations listed as R-CHR - you will find almost all are Urban/Hip Hop.
If you are calling Rhythmic CHR - like dance CHR, then that is different. Very very few - a handful, of dance hits stations exist in the country. Most fail and
are too limited or too techno. KTU in NYC could be considered a true rhythmic CHR - and that is a station with a format you don't find really anywhere else
in any of the big 10 markets.
Movin101 in STL was a rhythmic AC station. Most CHR's can be categorized into: Mainstream or AC today. In STL you have KSLZ which is mainstream but leans
very rhythmic (but that is mainly because that is what is out now as music) and then you have Y98 that is CHR-Adult and plays 90percent of KSLZ'ssame format but will also throw in a top 40 hit like Alanis' new single.
but Rhythmic CHR is a far and few format. Most stations that file/list as Rhythmic CHR are true Hip Hop stations - not playing a CHR format at all.
Take a look at those stations listed as R-CHR - you will find almost all are Urban/Hip Hop.
If you are calling Rhythmic CHR - like dance CHR, then that is different. Very very few - a handful, of dance hits stations exist in the country. Most fail and
are too limited or too techno. KTU in NYC could be considered a true rhythmic CHR - and that is a station with a format you don't find really anywhere else
in any of the big 10 markets.
Movin101 in STL was a rhythmic AC station. Most CHR's can be categorized into: Mainstream or AC today. In STL you have KSLZ which is mainstream but leans
very rhythmic (but that is mainly because that is what is out now as music) and then you have Y98 that is CHR-Adult and plays 90percent of KSLZ'ssame format but will also throw in a top 40 hit like Alanis' new single.
Rhythmic CHR really only works in a large market with a diverse ethnic population, particularly a lot of Hispanics. The one time years ago that a Rhythmic CHR was tried on 97.1 back in the 90s, it didn't do well. Movin' was a colossal flop with the Rhythmic AC format. There just isn't a high enough number of people who like that sort of music around here. I see much more of a hole for a Soft or Modern AC here then anything, or perhaps a CHR Mainstream competitor for KSLZ, which seems to me to lean towards the Rhythmic side. Y98 these days is sounding much more like a CHR then it ever has before, but without the rap.
Tulsa's Beat station is playing the same playlist as Clear Channels other CHR's - including Z1077 in STL. Just because it is called "Tulsa's party station" doesn't mean crap. The station's playlist is identicle to KSLZ.
B96 is Chicago plays a lot of rap and hip/hop. Very little dance.
HOT97 in the early 90's was very pop/dance leaning - but not realllllyyy. Music in the early 90's was more pop dancy songs like New Kids on the Block, MC Hammer etc... which were highly rotated in most CHR's. They just didn't play the rock CHR then.
MOVIN 101 was a pretty good format with a bad presentation. The station and Bonneville did a sorry and sad execution of the station from day one.
Y98 might as well be formated as CHR. They sound better and the station is better in the ratings too. Just get some new jingles and sweepers and it would even sound better. I can listen to them!
B96 is Chicago plays a lot of rap and hip/hop. Very little dance.
HOT97 in the early 90's was very pop/dance leaning - but not realllllyyy. Music in the early 90's was more pop dancy songs like New Kids on the Block, MC Hammer etc... which were highly rotated in most CHR's. They just didn't play the rock CHR then.
MOVIN 101 was a pretty good format with a bad presentation. The station and Bonneville did a sorry and sad execution of the station from day one.
Y98 might as well be formated as CHR. They sound better and the station is better in the ratings too. Just get some new jingles and sweepers and it would even sound better. I can listen to them!
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