• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Richard Wagoner latest take on KABC AM

And that would be higher than the ratings than the other sports stations in town (and would be better than what Kabc is doing now). I’m sure them having the Clippers allowed Kfwb to cash in and billed well.
Yes, but as the article said, with a 1.3 (beating KFWB), 710 was laying people off.

The relationship between ratings and revenue is not linear. The #20 station doesn’t make twice as much as the #40 station. A 1.2 won’t pay for the programming and promotion required to make a local station a success.
 
Key paragraph:

“A year ago, KSPN was cutting staffers and leading the L.A. sports-talk format with overall ratings at 1.3, well ahead of KLAC (0.6) and KFWB (0.2, last among the 41 stations monitored by Arbitron). ”

They managed a 1.2 in one book.
One single book. And that still ranked them way, way at the bottom and not eligible for nearly any agency buys.
 
My apologies for not being specific they along with fans who follow a well-run athletic department that competes for championships will tune in.
There are too few of those for a successful station. In a market where a market leader can cume over 2,500,000, KABC last cumed less than 200,000. That is 200,000 total different people during a whole week of broadcasting... in a market of 14,000,000 persons. That is just not enough people to be attractive to advertisers. This is not about supporting a team or appealing to a small nucleus of alumni who live in the limited signal area of the station.

And you are missing my point that the signal does not reach the areas where most English speaking non-Hispanic white older guys live. Nothing can be done about that. And most people today don't want to hear a game... they want to watch.
Streaming or AM. I don’t understand how adding sports programming that relates to Angelinos won’t work, but, doing the same thing they’ve been doing since Larry Elder got axed will work?
If the team wants a voice, it should just set up a streaming station. Full market coverage and the ability to charge fees.
 
Some seasons, that is debatable. Recently the Clippers have had success, but historically speaking, some of the best college teams could have beaten the Clippers!
I get your point, but to most consumers of media, college sports are different from major league sports.

The exceptions are, of course, the bigger college football teams and a few basketball ones. But there is a reason why the sports industry has kept college football on a day when it does not compete with pro sports.

As I said, if you are in the hometown or region of a college team like Alabama or Florida State, the following is huge. But it does not translate to Monday to Friday listening. It's a Saturday phenomenon. I can make that statement as I was PD of the flagship station of Alabama and, later, group manager of the flagship station for the Noles.
 
No: it gives them an LA clear for their syndicated talk. That would never happen if they changed formats or sold the station.

Cumulus doesn't care about share. They no longer subscribe to Nielsen.
It's such a scam when a syndicator believes that "exposure" is the same as "audience."
It's the difference between displaying an item in a store and having someone actually buy it.
Hard to believe that national advertisers still fall for that trick, An unheard commercial (or show) has no value or benefit even if it's blasting from 50,000 red hot watts, let alone the 5k that 790 offers.
 
It's such a scam when a syndicator believes that "exposure" is the same as "audience."

Keep in mind it's not the syndicator that believes this, but rather the advertisers. This is what they look for: Exposure,

It's also the driving force behind a lot of the religious radio companies, who value a station on reach rather than audience.
 
Yes, but as the article said, with a 1.3 (beating KFWB), 710 was laying people off.

The relationship between ratings and revenue is not linear. The #20 station doesn’t make twice as much as the #40 station. A 1.2 won’t pay for the programming and promotion required to make a local station a success.
What is the potential for FM sports talk in LA? In New York, WFAN and WEPN combine for a 5-6 share; in Philadelphia, WIP and WPEN total around 6-7. And in Boston, WBZ-FM and WEEI often pull in an aggregate 9-10. I know, it's the northeast, a different place, a different audience with different habits and traditions. But would ESPN or the CBS/Audacy partnered "CBS Sports Radio" be be better served on what's currently a low rated, but big signaled FM? Down the coast. it does appear that the Padres-driven 97.3 KWFN is finally catching on, with a 4.9 (6+) in its most recent month.
 
Last edited:
What is the potential for FM sports talk in LA?

I think a lot of observers thought that was going to be the fate of 97.1. When it didn't happen, then you look around to the reason why. One of the conclusions I reached was that the majority of the ratings for sports talk is driven by the daily talk show hosts. So you ask who could attract the kind of audience you need to pay for all the salaries and rights fees? Because in the examples you give, there is one station that's succeeding (such as WBZ-FM) and another one that's in the hole (WEEI). People listen to specific hosts and shows, not a generic format. It's not a guaranteed ratings getter. So Audacy punted and simulcast KNX.
 
What is the potential for FM sports talk in LA? In New York, WFAN and WEPN combine for a 5-6 share; in Philadelphia, WIP and WPEN total around 6-7. And in Boston, WBZ-FM and WEEI often pull in an aggregate 9-10. I know, it's the northeast, a different place, a different audience with different habits and traditions. But would ESPN or the CBS/Audacy partnered "CBS Sports Radio" be be better served on what's currently a low rated, but big signaled FM? Down the coast. it does appear that the Padres-driven 97.3 KWFN is finally catching on, with a 4.9 (6+) in its most recent month.
Apart from hot streaks, L.A. is a crappy sports town. The Dodgers and Lakers are arguable exceptions, but if they’re having bad years, they find out how many are fair weather fans.

Pretty much always been that way.

San Diego loves the Padres. San Francisco cares about the Giants and 49ers and Warriors.

Not sure I remember any sports station in L.A. ever getting even a 3 share. And in recent years, a 2 seems to have been out of reach.
 
Last edited:
Does research say that sports won’t work on FM in LA? It‘s still mind boggling that Audacy chose to simulcast a format with no growth potential in desired demos instead of launching sports on 97.1. Audacy already has the Rams, they had an option to do after Lakers rights before they re-upped on 710. Sadly, I think that train of ever simulcasting sports on FM in LA has left the station.
 
Does research say that sports won’t work on FM in LA? It‘s still mind boggling that Audacy chose to simulcast a format with no growth potential in desired demos instead of launching sports on 97.1. Audacy already has the Rams, they had an option to do after Lakers rights before they re-upped on 710. Sadly, I think that train of ever simulcasting sports on FM in LA has left the station.
KROQ broadcast USFL games in the early 80s, but I don’t know what kind of ratings they got.
 
It's such a scam when a syndicator believes that "exposure" is the same as "audience."
It is no such thing. Advertisers who buy these "unwired networks" know that they are getting minimal audience but they pay minimal prices and find that such media buys are very efficient for certain kinds of products and services. The advertisers and agencies involved have all the statistics, and they make reasoned buys.
It's the difference between displaying an item in a store and having someone actually buy it.
No, there is definable delivery... just not huge numbers.
Hard to believe that national advertisers still fall for that trick, An unheard commercial (or show) has no value or benefit even if it's blasting from 50,000 red hot watts, let alone the 5k that 790 offers.
Yet each of those stations has measured audience and the efficiency, cost per point and other metrics can be analyzed.

And, actually, KABC is 6.6 kw daytime and 7.9 kw at night.
 
Does research say that sports won’t work on FM in LA? It‘s still mind boggling that Audacy chose to simulcast a format with no growth potential in desired demos instead of launching sports on 97.1. Audacy already has the Rams, they had an option to do after Lakers rights before they re-upped on 710. Sadly, I think that train of ever simulcasting sports on FM in LA has left the station.
They have had significant growth in 25-54 since adding the FM, moving to the 2-share range. They are not going to sacrifice one of the 50 highest billing stations in the US to be the 4th sports station.
 
Does research say that sports won’t work on FM in LA?

It's not that simple a question. You start with a premise, and then you look at the expenses. Audacy has some big successes with WFAN and WIP, and they also have some huge failures with WEEI and KGMZ in San Francisco. The decision isn't made by one person, but by a team, who look at potential revenues and growth. They already had a very expensive news format. Do they continue to invest in that, or do they start from scratch and invest another million or more in a new format. You balance the expenses with the revenues, and you make a decision.
 
Does research say that sports won’t work on FM in LA? It‘s still mind boggling that Audacy chose to simulcast a format with no growth potential in desired demos instead of launching sports on 97.1. Audacy already has the Rams, they had an option to do after Lakers rights before they re-upped on 710. Sadly, I think that train of ever simulcasting sports on FM in LA has left the station.
Even during the supposed heyday of sports radio in the 90s, Los Angeles never had a big sports station. You could do an hour or two, as KABC did with its "Sportsfan" shows, and Jim Healy was a certified legend, but even on a (then) decent signal with a reputation for sports coverage, KMPC (710, not 1540), there's just never been a success story.

And that just goes back to L.A. not being a rabid sports town.
 
It is no such thing. Advertisers who buy these "unwired networks" know that they are getting minimal audience but they pay minimal prices and find that such media buys are very efficient for certain kinds of products and services. The advertisers and agencies involved have all the statistics, and they make reasoned buys.
There used to be a study from Arbitron called RADAR, which studied these unwired networks. It was designed to allow buyers to optimize their buys for reach. e.g. if you bought 10 spots a week with Network X and Network Y, you could expect to reach Z% of adults 25-54 in Los Angeles in that week.

I suspect the RADAR study no longer exists. It may have been phased out when the PPM became currency, not certain.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom