I wasn't with KABC at that critical time, but by the time I got there it was pretty clear what had happened. It was a classic case of a station that considered itself the "King of the Hill" being unable to see the need to adapt and change in order to grow. KABC adopted an "ignore them" stance and fell victim to KFI aggressive imaging. "More Stimulating Talk Radio" --- more stimulating that what? More stimulating than the stale, old lady KABC had become. Management of the station was afraid to change until it was too late. (Same for KGO by the way.) KFI effectively positioned KABC as the station that was dull and out of touch. KABC shows weren't exciting and were very old school. It didn't take long before the attractive 25-54 listeners left the station and KABC was never able to recover. People often cite KABC's decision not to take Rush as the reason for their downfall. Perhaps, but I believe the problem was greater than one show decision. It was the perception they were invulnerable. They thought they could always continue to do the "let's open the phone lines and get your opinion" style of talk radio. They didn't believe they needed new, fresh perspectives and talent. Sadly the result was inevitable with that sort of thinking.
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Richard Wagoner latest take on KABC AM
- Thread starter 34james
- Start date
When they pass on the #1 AM talk radio talent of all time and cede them to their competition on a much better signal for decades to come, well, that is a very large reason for the downfall.
This of course is a symptom of their overall view that they didn't need to change even as their own talk radio world was drastically changing around them as you said.
They did ultimately bring in some better talent in the form of Larry Elder, but he couldn't carry the (by then) under-powered station.
Not just those two stations. The whole ABC chain was stuck in the past. WABC, WLS, and WMAL suffered from the same disease. They failed to make the transition into the 21st century as iHeart and others had. ABC Radio had once been the biggest and most powerful company in radio. By the time they were sold to Citadel, they were old and stodgy.
I really think that mornings and afternoons defined KFI. While afternoons was (nearly all the time) a couple of "Joisey" imports, they took the "average guy" approach well enough to win.
The reliance on phones at KABC vs. the sometimes call-in-less whole shows on KFI made a difference. You did not go to a stand-up show to hear the comedian spend the whole time talking to the audience, and that approach worked well for KFI.
I recall going to a Don Rickles show where part of the act was to make fun of a couple of audience members. But that was only one element in the show; most people are not entertaining so Rickles had to use expected dull responses to do his own bits, with often cruel and snarky comebacks to the audience member. That was a learning experience for me when going into talk at KTNQ.
KFI avoided 78-year-old "Grace from Pacoima" and was not afraid of skipping calls totally if there was a subject of greater worth. But the other thing KFI did was establish a very aggressive news image with what at times was more responsive coverage than the news stations. You got breaking news on KFI while KNX had one of those xxxxxing editorials by the general manager!
KFI was #24 with a 1.4 when it went talk in the summer of '88. They had nothing to lose.
KABC was 3rd with a 6.3. Top ten in 25-54 (9th), and #1 35-64. They had to worry about f-ing it up if they responded, realizing too late that you can f it up by not responding, too. Though even if they had, the signal was going to be an impediment, and the reality was that until 2014, if you were the station that didn't have Rush, you were going to lose middays.
This gets back to what we talk about all the time with regards to with KRTH or even KTWV responding to changes in the market, changes in the demos, and reinventing the sound to revive a station before it's too late.
We should point out that most of the other ABC stations took Rush from the start, and his syndicator, Ed McLoughlin, had previously been president of ABC Radio. So they had the right of first refusal. I think Ed used the ABC distribution system to get the show to stations. On the other hand (as a point of context) this was at a time when it was unheard of for top rated stations to give up a daytime portion of their airtime to a syndicator. A few years later, Larry King tried to do it and was slaughtered.
Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou
I'm sorry. You weren't finished.
Exactly.
Right. And Ed also had Rush as an embed at WABC, broadcasting from their studios, starting July 4 of 1988.
Ed insisted that Rush be carried live (allowing for very rare exceptions in places like Arizona, where there is no Daylight Savings Time and they either had to tape-delay an hour or shift timeslots every few months). He probably could have gotten clearance on KABC---and maybe even KGO---if he'd been willing to settle for another time slot and then work the way up the schedule.
But KABC had Michael Jackson, who still was doing well in the ratings---and more importantly, billing well beyond what the ratings would suggest----local direct buys from the BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar dealers on the Westside let you do that---and KGO had Ronn Owens, who was doing even better there than Michael was in L.A., so it was a hard pass.
And that all happens right when KFI is going talk.
With 20/20 hindsight, it's easy to say that KABC (and to a lesser extent KGO) blew it, but if it was the summer of '88 and you were George Green (KABC's GM at the time), would you have blown up your schedule to replace Jackson with Rush---and taken a significant ratings (there'd be a complete audience turnover) and revenue hit?
Micheal's show was, beyond interminably liberal, which always makes for bad radio, stodgy and boring. If Green couldn't recognize this when better talent came along, then that is on him. It is specifically his job to make those tough calls. He didn't, and the station ailed as a result.
I guess we'll have to say this one more time: Micheal Jackson's talk show has never succeeded when faced with actual direct competition. Of course he couldn't compete with the immeasurably more talented Rush Limbaugh, but in a post-KABC dinosaur word where actual talk competition exists, he failed every single time.
He went to KRLA and failed. He went to KGIL and failed. he went to KLAC and failed. I think (going off memory here) he also was on the short-lived KTZN "The Zone" (liberal talk radio aimed mostly at women) and if he did, well then he failed there too (along with the rest of the station). Each time, only lasting a year or two until it became evident he couldn;t draw ratings And every time he failed, it was always reported as "the station failed, not Michael Jackson" or "The owner gave up on him too soon, he was building a comeback". It was never his fault. Except that he couldn't draw ratings.
Of course there was a time when he was also popular. So popular that he became syndicated. Then things changed. So I'm not ready to put all the blame on one person. Tom Leykis was also liberal, and not stodgy or boring until he got older.
Except (and I'll grant you that Michael and KABC had no meaningful competition between the time that KLAC dropped talk in 1969 and KFI started it in 1988), he did have strong ratings and he brought a lot of money into KABC.
At the time Green had to choose, Rush had three and a half years of talk experience at one station, KFBK in Sacramento. Michael Jackson had been overachieving in terms of ratings and revenue for KABC since 1966. Making that switch would have been a major gamble. It would have paid off, but there was no way to know that at the time.
WABC was not as successful in the ratings or with revenue as KABC was at that time. In the Winter '88 book (the last one before the deal was done), WABC was in 16th place with a 2.6. KABC was #2 with a 6.1. Ed McLaughlin's pitch (you get the show free, we get the revenue from four minutes of spots we sell each hour) was more attractive to WABC than it was to KABC or KGO.
Jackson didn't do KTZN, but that's irrelevant. He should have retired (at least from local radio) when the KABC run ended. He was 63, and his type of talk radio was through. If he couldn't beat Limbaugh on KABC, which was an established talk presence, he certainly wasn't going to do it on KRLA, KLAC or KGIL, which weren't. The truth is both Jackson and those stations failed.
George Green's inability to see the future in 1988 reminds me of the story that got told at Jerry Moss' benefit earlier this year.
Moss, of course, was the "M" in A&M Records, and among the talents who performed and spoke at the event was producer David Foster.
Foster told the story of using a friend inside A&M to get a meeting with Jerry when he was in his early twenties and mainly working as a keyboardist. He pitched Jerry on the idea of being an in-house producer for A&M, and in a fit of hubris, told Jerry he could be had for a million dollars up front and a hefty salary.
Moss was polite, but made it clear the meeting was over.
In the 80s, during Foster's multi-platinum hot streak, he ran into Jerry at a party and reminded him of the meeting.
Moss: "Well, if you had told me you were going to turn out to be this David Foster, we might have made a deal!"
Moss, of course, was the "M" in A&M Records, and among the talents who performed and spoke at the event was producer David Foster.
Foster told the story of using a friend inside A&M to get a meeting with Jerry when he was in his early twenties and mainly working as a keyboardist. He pitched Jerry on the idea of being an in-house producer for A&M, and in a fit of hubris, told Jerry he could be had for a million dollars up front and a hefty salary.
Moss was polite, but made it clear the meeting was over.
In the 80s, during Foster's multi-platinum hot streak, he ran into Jerry at a party and reminded him of the meeting.
Moss: "Well, if you had told me you were going to turn out to be this David Foster, we might have made a deal!"
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Tom Leykis was boring?
Leykis’s wine show was one of the most boring things I’ve ever heard. I’d rather listen to the Hollyridge Strings on a loop.
That's what I meant about when he got older and started talking about wine and cigars.
It was just the other side of the coin of ”Leykis 101.”DUMP….THAT…..GLASS!
A better signal would also certainly help. They could dump that 50 kW daytime directional system, reduce daytime power to 10 kw and operate non-directional. (This is what they ran in the 1950s before they applied for 50 kW). This would put an acceptable signal all over the basin as well as the SFV and northern Orange County. KFOX 1650 does just that and their signal in the West SFV is surprisingly good. For decades now 1580's daytime signal out here is barely the equal of KYPA 1230.
Kabc should give him a shot
That was my original suggestion on another post...
He brought good ratings and revenue to 97.1 in afternoon drive for years. he’s filled on Kabc in the past. But, it won’t happen because we’re fortunate to hear national My Pillow and Cialis spots on the 150th rated station in Los Angeles
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