riddle me this...non-coms

[Talktalk]

ok, so we have been talk talking in circles about the value of non-coms and have had a lively discussion. If non-coms provide the ultimate in community service, no commercial clutter and have the ability to change programming in an ever changing enviornment, why aren't non coms taking commercial station listenership?

 

[davideduardo]

ok, so we have been talk talking in circles about the value of non-coms and have had a lively discussion. If non-coms provide the ultimate in community service, no commercial clutter and have the ability to change programming in an ever changing enviornment, why aren't non coms taking commercial station listenership?

In many markets they are.

 

[klifhanger]

Perhaps the Listeners percieve anything below 92 is intellectually, religiously intimidating,or boring without bothering to check it out,plus are pretty well "programmed" to only listen to commercial stations, their ipods, andinternet since commercial radio is failing them. HMM. what a stretch. :-[

You must be a conn. school of broadcasting or ABs refugee.

 

[Talktalk]

David, c'mon man...YOU sir, are the king of research, and you think we are going to settle for "in some markets, they are". that is very unlike you. Can you please provide some support for that? Not saying it is wrong, I would just like to know more.

And Klif, as usual, you provide nothing of any substance; are you telling me, that people will buy ipods and sat radios, hd radios but won't turn the dial past 92? c'mon, even robert doesn't buy THAT dribble.

is it possible, that they know non-coms are there and they just don't care? And, if that is the case, why can't non-coms program well enough to interest them?

 

[klifhanger]

Talk"when you provide something of substance check in, until then stay in school. BTW more of the 25-50 set prefer their ipods,cd's internet, and satellite morethan radio. You should read the REAL trades sometimes,not "Weekly Reader".

 

[davideduardo]

David, c'mon man...YOU sir, are the king of research, and you think we are going to settle for "in some markets, they are". that is very unlike you. Can you please provide some support for that? Not saying it is wrong, I would just like to know more.

Dallas has 11.9 noncommercial shares. San Francisco has nearly 30 shares between out of market and non-commercial shares including a strong #2 12+ for KQED. The total varies by market depending on the quality of the noncoms, but using KQED as an example (#1 25-54 with a full point over the #2 station) they definitely do very well when well run.

 

[Robert Bass]

Dallas has 11.9 noncommercial shares.

11.9? How'd you get that number?

R

 

[davideduardo]

Dallas has 11.9 noncommercial shares.

11.9? How'd you get that number?

Adding all the non-coms including those that did not "make the book," but had shares of 0.1 to 0.3. There are iver 5 shares just in the ones that make minimum reporting standards.

 

[Robert Bass]

Dallas has 11.9 noncommercial shares.

11.9? How'd you get that number?

Adding all the non-coms including those that did not "make the book," but had shares of 0.1 to 0.3. There are iver 5 shares just in the ones that make minimum reporting standards.

Oh I see. I was only adding the ones that were in the book, and was getting something like 4.6.

R

 

[Shoot From Hip]

In Seattle, the #1 ranked station 12+ is non-com KUOW-FM:

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,78167.0.html

 

[theshadow]

is it possible, that they know non-coms are there and they just don't care? And, if that is the case, why can't non-coms program well enough to interest them?

Ok, Radio 101 in a nutshell....

Non-commercials are just that. NON commercial. By that
meaning, said station runs not for profit and keeps the lights
on (generally) from community donations. Many have donation
drives like the equilvalent of KERA (TV). This can fund anything
from a transmitter upgrade to a cd case holder in the studio.
Loyal listeners come from word of mouth. Rarely if ever, is
promotions a major part of that equation. Why? Budgets.
Again, think donations. Would you rather spend money on
studio equipment or an overpriced space on a Central
Expressway billboard?

Beyond 92 mhz, it's a whole different ball game. Welcome to
COMMERCIAL radio... Home of huge multi billion
dollar corporations that have oodles and oodles of cash
to devote to equipment, office space, and PROMOTIONS.
THESE are the big boys and major players that can afford
15 or so billboards in high visibility spots around the metro, put
mailers in your mailbox, call you at work, give away new cars,
trips, and concert tickets.

It's all AWARENESS. Even if a station sucks donkey @#!,
if it's promoted right, listeners will come. They may not stay long,
but they WILL come to check it out.

For non-comms, promotions and awareness are very difficult parts
of the puzzle to put together simply because of the almighty dollar.

 

[Robert Bass]

I liked the description for non-comms, that appeared in another thread...

"Farm System"

That was good ;D

R

 

[Talktalk]

Thank you Robert, I do consider them to be the Farm System. At the same time, DE put up some strong numbers ans did another poster. If non-coms CAN pull numbers is some markets, why can't they in ALL markets. Don't the programmers determine the content?

 

[klifhanger]

Why can't one format pull in strong numbers in one market and they can't in another? Same type of question and not exclusive to non-coms. It's what management does,not necessarily the Prog. Dir.

 

[davideduardo]

Why can't one format pull in strong numbers in one market and they can't in another? Same type of question and not exclusive to non-coms. It's what management does,not necessarily the Prog. Dir.

Beyond management, promotion budget, etc., there are several things that change market to market.

First, the competive array may change the "hole" for a particular format. More or less stations, and the formats determine the dimensions of any individual station. This is probably the biggest single factor... it's about who you are up against.

Second, there is the signal issue. Particularly with non-coms, we find many good stations on less than full market signals, so any analysis has to look at population coverage by a usable signal, too.

 

[Talktalk]

fair enough with regard to signal, but regarding the programming issue...would it not make sense that non-coms are in a better position to hit a moving target because they are not tied to ratings performance nor are they influenced by advertiser backlash? It seems to me that they would have the advantage when it comes to actually out programming the commercial stations...if this is true, why can't non com programmers pull larger share?

 

[fredthehead]

riveting banter!

you guys to need to get out more

 

[Huff]

Here's the link for non-comm numbers:

http://www.rrconline.org/

At the top, click on "Arbitron Data", then select your market and "run report"

 

[Paul Boomer]

Fredthehead - I find it interesting. Have you started or contributed any substance to any threads?

 

[davideduardo]

fair enough with regard to signal, but regarding the programming issue...would it not make sense that non-coms are in a better position to hit a moving target because they are not tied to ratings performance nor are they influenced by advertiser backlash? It seems to me that they would have the advantage when it comes to actually out programming the commercial stations...if this is true, why can't non com programmers pull larger share?

Noncoms that are not religious, particularly ones like the NPR affiliates, pay a good deal of attention to ratings. This data is used for programming and for fundraising activities, particularly among the "advertising" they run:

"Touting their relatively wealthy and educated audiences, public-radio stations now count 18% of their revenue from businesses, compared with 11% from the federal government, according to Tom Thomas, co-chief executive of Station Resource Group, a Takoma Park, Md., public-radio consulting firm. That’s a big change from 1980, when almost a third of public-radio stations’ funding came from the federal level and just 8% from businesses. "

Beyond ad sales, NPR affiliates get most of its money from donations, so they have to be sensitive to the kind of listener who gives money. This explains the switch from a lot of classical music to talk formats, and the addition of HD channels to broaden the donor-base reach.