Robot or Zombie

[michael hagerty]

And if you do quarterly testing, one group is not the same as the next. Their tastes will not be the same as the next group. Not representative at all.

I think David has covered the screening process. When you're dealing with a super-core of 42-52 year olds inclined to listen to Classic Hits station (that's a subset right there), the tastes are generally similar.

3000 Top 20 songs (if that's remotely close), yet we already know that tons get thrown out automatically. Remember our Deodato argument? There's one that'll get thrown out for assumption. And they'll do that to others.

My only point on Deodato was that the Hispanic demographic makeup of Los Angeles wouldn't boost a Brazilian artist. I don't know whether they've tested "Also Sprach Zarathustra" or not. I wouldn't assume they haven't without some sort of proof.

Also what you seem to be ruling out is the fact that many classic hits/oldies stations were quite popular from the 80's-90's. The playlists would have been skewed differently then, but younger listeners would still have been subject to the experience. So, no it is not entirely surprising that someone, as you say, born in 1968 could be familiar with a James Brown hit. As stations continue to hack up their audiences, this will no longer be the case, and eventually these songs will disapper for good.

45 now was 12 in 1980...31 in 1990. Yes, some of them would have been classic hits listeners. But by no means a majority, or even likely a plurality. Still, if they did, they wouldn't have heard "Get On The Good Foot" (as noted, that got almost zero Top 40 play), but they'd know "I Got You (I Feel Good)", "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag", etc.

 

[oldies76]

And...if they don't remember it?

Let's just say the 45 year old that was born in 1968 didn't really start paying attention to pop music until he or she was....I dunno...11. That's 1979. Sure, they know the stuff that was played as oldies from earlier in the decade on Top 40 radio whgen they started listening in '79 and the stuff they've heard in movies and commercials and at parties since..."Love Train", "Joy To The World", "Crocodile Rock", "You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet", "Play That Funky Music", "Superstition"....that doesn't mean they know or care about "Right On The Tip Of My Tongue", "Motorcycle Mama", "Don't Expect Me To Be Your Friend", "You And Me Against The World" or "Having My Baby".

You and others can argue if you like.....I've mentioned my points and that's what I'm going by.
I've given my reasons over several threads now, I believe they are valid and others here agree.
No one is gaining or losing here. It's really just a stalemate.

All music from the 60's, 70's and 80's are classics and classics should be played on classic hits radio, that's it.

 

[michael hagerty]

All music from the 60's, 70's and 80's are classics and classics should be played on classic hits radio, that's it.

(Screen goes all wavy, harp music plays)

(Me, last night):

Do you really think that 67% of today's 45 year olds would sit all the way through The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards' "Amazing Grace" (#11, 1972), Donna Fargo's "Funny Face" (#5, 1973) or Sammy Davis, Jr.'s "The Candy Man" (#1, 1972)?

(Oldies, in reply):

I believe certain novelty type songs, intrumentals, and older country-crossovers versus regular pop hits will have a different outcome on listeners on a classic hits station. Those particular songs mentioned are not considered regular pop songs, so yes the outcome on 45 year olds will be different.

 

[oldies76]

(Screen goes all wavy, harp music plays)

Regular pop hits I referred to. All regular pop hits from the 70's.

 

[michael hagerty]

(Screen goes all wavy, harp music plays)

Regular pop hits I referred to. All regular pop hits from the 70's.

Define "regular pop hit".

I'll give you the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. Bagpipe music. That song making it to #11 is reason enough to question Billboard's charts if there weren't so many others.

But why is "The Candy Man" by Sammy Davis, Jr. (which made it to #1) not a "regular pop hit"?

And given the fairly regular crossover of country music, why is "Funny Face" by Donna Fargo (#5) not a "regular pop hit"?

 

[oldies76]

Define "regular pop hit".

I'll give you the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. Bagpipe music. That song making it to #11 is reason enough to question Billboard's charts if there weren't so many others.

But why is "The Candy Man" by Sammy Davis, Jr. (which made it to #1) not a "regular pop hit"?

And given the fairly regular crossover of country music, why is "Funny Face" by Donna Fargo (#5) not a "regular pop hit"?

Within Rock and Roll, there are many genres of music. Country crossovers, Folk, Standards, Instrumentals, Novelty....etc.. I think you get the picture.

"Funny Face" is a country crossover song, charting on the pop charts then. "Candy Man" is a novelty-type song, just like "My Ding A Ling" and "The Streak". It made #1 in 1972 due to sales and airplay factors and it was popular and made the pop charts then.

Yes, technically they are all rock and roll songs, but as a classic hits station, you'd be more inclined to play the songs that "sound" like rock and roll, or pop-rock. Novelty songs and Country crossovers are riskier, since they don't have the feel and sound of more typical rock and roll, like the majority of other songs that charted then.

 

[michael hagerty]

Define "regular pop hit".

I'll give you the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. Bagpipe music. That song making it to #11 is reason enough to question Billboard's charts if there weren't so many others.

But why is "The Candy Man" by Sammy Davis, Jr. (which made it to #1) not a "regular pop hit"?

And given the fairly regular crossover of country music, why is "Funny Face" by Donna Fargo (#5) not a "regular pop hit"?

Within Rock and Roll, there are many genres of music. Country crossovers, Folk, Standards, Instrumentals, Novelty....etc.. I think you get the picture.

"Funny Face" is a country crossover song, charting on the pop charts then. "Candy Man" is a novelty-type song, just like "My Ding A Ling" and "The Streak". It made #1 in 1972 due to sales and airplay factors and it was popular and made the pop charts then.

Yes, technically they are all rock and roll songs, but as a classic hits station, you'd be more inclined to play the songs that "sound" like rock and roll, or pop-rock. Novelty songs and Country crossovers are riskier, since they don't have the feel and sound of more typical rock and roll, like the majority of other songs that charted then.

Fair enough (though I'd suggest that "The Candy Man" is not so much a novelty song as a Broadway-style musical number, having come from the original "Willy Wonka" movie with Gene Wilder...still, that puts it outside the boundaries of what you describe....though that may get us into trouble down the road with "Summer Nights" from Grease, but we'll cross that bridge if we ever get to it).

Totally serious question: Do you play them or not?

 

[oldies76]

Totally serious question: Do you play them or not?

As for the riskier songs, like the ones mentioned above, I would play them only in specialties or a countdown setting (like WCBS's). But no, they would not be in regular rotation.

I think all songs should be "available" vs. "eliminated or ignored". Like I've said, they have to be played at the right time and in this case, a weekend special of sort would suit these songs, if the need came around to feature them. But as for all the others, the more typical sounding rock and roll songs of the 60's 70's and 80's, I would implement most as the "lost 45" or the "rarely played" song, about twice an hour mixed with the more popular titles. And these "lost 45's" would be jumbled together in some sort of weekend specialty, similiar to something that K-Earth 101 would have done in the Bob Hamilton era, like a number one hits weekend....etc..

Please don't get me wrong, I am playing the tested songs, no question, but I have to throw in a few "extras" to break up the monotony and make the station fun and enjoyable for the listeners.

 

[michael hagerty]

Totally serious question: Do you play them or not?

As for the riskier songs, like the ones mentioned above, I would play them only in specialties or a countdown setting (like WCBS's). But no, they would not be in regular rotation.

I think all songs should be "available" vs. "eliminated or ignored". Like I've said, they have to be played at the right time and in this case, a weekend special of sort would suit these songs, if the need came around to feature them. But as for all the others, the more typical sounding rock and roll songs of the 60's 70's and 80's, I would implement most as the "lost 45" or the "rarely played" song, about twice an hour mixed with the more popular titles. And these "lost 45's" would be jumbled together in some sort of weekend specialty, similiar to something that K-Earth 101 would have done in the Bob Hamilton era, like a number one hits weekend....etc..

Please don't get me wrong, I am playing the tested songs, no question, but I have to throw in a few "extras" to break up the monotony and make the station fun and enjoyable for the listeners.

Okay. Now...how deep do you go? Do you still believe that chart position back in the day should determine whether the record gets played? And if so, what's your cutoff? #15? #20? #30? #40?

Again, serious question.

 

[oldies76]

Okay. Now...how deep do you go? Do you still believe that chart position back in the day should determine whether the record gets played? And if so, what's your cutoff? #15? #20? #30? #40?

Again, serious question.

Generally, I would stay in the top 10 for the time period I'm presenting (1964-1985 for example), but I would make "available" songs as far back as position 20 or lower if needed.
Anything really below 30-40 would be out of the question, unless it's a standout ("Moondance" or "The Message" by Cymande) for example.

As for the charts, using them for reference for your weekend specials could come to use. And I would have the Joel Whitburn books or local surveys as a reference, just in case. KRTH referenced the KHJ radio surveys often in their weekend specials.

 

[CTListener]

Okay. Now...how deep do you go? Do you still believe that chart position back in the day should determine whether the record gets played? And if so, what's your cutoff? #15? #20? #30? #40?

Again, serious question.

Generally, I would stay in the top 10 for the time period I'm presenting (1964-1985 for example), but I would make "available" songs as far back as position 20 or lower if needed.
Anything really below 30-40 would be out of the question, unless it's a standout ("Moondance" or "The Message" by Cymande) for example..

"The What???," by Who??? I know "Moondance" but have never heard of that other song or its artist. What was it, when was it out, and what radio stations were playing it?

 

[michael hagerty]

Okay. Now...how deep do you go? Do you still believe that chart position back in the day should determine whether the record gets played? And if so, what's your cutoff? #15? #20? #30? #40?

Again, serious question.

Generally, I would stay in the top 10 for the time period I'm presenting (1964-1985 for example), but I would make "available" songs as far back as position 20 or lower if needed.
Anything really below 30-40 would be out of the question, unless it's a standout ("Moondance" or "The Message" by Cymande) for example.

As for the charts, using them for reference for your weekend specials could come to use. And I would have the Joel Whitburn books or local surveys as a reference, just in case. KRTH referenced the KHJ radio surveys often in their weekend specials.

Okay. A couple of posts back, you said you're playing the tested songs. So that means you're testing. What do you do when you see big negatives on a record, either one of your regulars or one of the "available a"?

 

[oldies76]

Okay. Now...how deep do you go? Do you still believe that chart position back in the day should determine whether the record gets played? And if so, what's your cutoff? #15? #20? #30? #40?

Again, serious question.

Generally, I would stay in the top 10 for the time period I'm presenting (1964-1985 for example), but I would make "available" songs as far back as position 20 or lower if needed.
Anything really below 30-40 would be out of the question, unless it's a standout ("Moondance" or "The Message" by Cymande) for example..

"The What???," by Who??? I know "Moondance" but have never heard of that other song or its artist. What was it, when was it out, and what radio stations were playing it?

A really funky soul song that came out in early '73, peaked at #48. Discovered it on an old Adam VIII Compilation LP. I've personally have never heard it on radio, but you should check it out. It's really a good song and worthy to be played.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfdETotc4T8

 

[oldies76]

Okay. A couple of posts back, you said you're playing the tested songs. So that means you're testing. What do you do when you see big negatives on a record, either one of your regulars or one of the "available a"?

Not sure if auditorium tests would be functional for a very small station, equivelant to Super Hits 106. I mentioned the "tested songs" as a term for the more popular songs played today on classic hits radio.

Assuming that our station actually tests, if tested negative repeatedly, it would go into the "available" songs and taken out of regular rotation or even the "lost 45" category, but remain "available" for a possible weekend special, if it even came to that. Or at worst it would become one of those songs we talked about earlier ("Lords Prayer", "Funny Face"..etc..) and just kept aside.

 

[michael hagerty]

Okay. A couple of posts back, you said you're playing the tested songs. So that means you're testing. What do you do when you see big negatives on a record, either one of your regulars or one of the "available a"?

Not sure if auditorium tests would be functional for a very small station, equivelant to Super Hits 106. I mentioned the "tested songs" as a term for the more popular songs played today on classic hits radio.

Assuming that our station actually tests, if tested negative repeatedly, it would go into the "available" songs and taken out of regular rotation or even the "lost 45" category, but remain "available" for a possible weekend special, if it even came to that. Or at worst it would become one of those songs we talked about earlier ("Lords Prayer", "Funny Face"..etc..) and just kept aside.

That should have been "availables" (#%?!ing Autocorrect).

So you're not considering this approach in a large, competitive situation.

 

[oldies76]

So you're not considering this approach in a large, competitive situation.

Ok, we'll assume a city like Los Angeles or San Diego.

 

[michael hagerty]

So you're not considering this approach in a large, competitive situation.

Ok, we'll assume a city like Los Angeles or San Diego.

Seriously?

 

[oldies76]

So you're not considering this approach in a large, competitive situation.

Ok, we'll assume a city like Los Angeles or San Diego.

Seriously?

Ok, I live in Colorado Springs, so it can be in this area. Better??

 

[michael hagerty]

So you're not considering this approach in a large, competitive situation.

Ok, we'll assume a city like Los Angeles or San Diego.

Seriously?

Ok, I live in Colorado Springs, so it can be in this area. Better??

There's no better or worse. They're just two (now three) very different markets.

Colorado Springs is market #91 and is 78% non-Hispanic whites.

San Diego is market #17 and is 48% non-Hispanic whites.

Los Angeles is market #2 and 28% non-Hispanic whites.

Colorado Springs is a diary market (survey participants write down what they listened to). San Diego and Los Angeles are PPM (whatever radio you hear is instantaneously recorded and included in the ratings).

Your choice. Pick where you think you'd have the greatest chance of success. What the three have in common is that they are top 100 markets, so all three are dependent largely on national and regional ad agency buys as opposed to local advertising sales. And agency buys are driven by ratings performance in the 25-54 demo.

 

[oldies76]

Your choice. Pick where you think you'd have the greatest chance of success. What the three have in common is that they are top 100 markets, so all three are dependent largely on national and regional ad agency buys as opposed to local advertising sales. And agency buys are driven by ratings performance in the 25-54 demo.

Colorado Springs market.