Rochester Fall Ratings

[Mark Giardina]

http://www.radio-info.com/markets/rochester

I am still amazed that stations way outside of the Rochester market, and can hardly be heard on the radio in Monroe County, can come up with better numbers than stations that can be heard both day and night.

There is a serious credibility problem when it comes to the rating system; at least I think so.

 

[Bob1370]

Point taken. There's probably an explanation...in the way the diaries are distributed.

If you get a cluster of diaries returned from out in the western parts of the TSA, you're likely to see stations from Buffalo overrepresented, while a high rate of return from the eastern part of the market makes Syracuse stations show up abnormally often. Conversely, if an overly large number of diaries come from the central city and inner-ring 'burbs, you'll find weaker local signals overrepresented and the wide-ranging blowtorches under-represented.


Winter book will probably see a whole different set of aberrations.

 

[Element9]

Whoa Nelly! WDKX is on fire. Even though it's down a hair, WBEE is as strong as a horse, . Otherwise, these are some ugly ratings. Yes, it's Persons 12+. Is Wease carrying Fox on his gimpy knees? And CMF, which is up slightly, for a station that was once dominant. WUWT? Looks like a lot of fragmentation in the Persons 12+. Does any one station just blow the market away in Persons, Women and Men 25-54 or is it as fragmented as the 12+ appears. I'd bet WBEE owns all key demos except teens and 18-34, which go to WDKX. What happened to Christmas Music stations? Some of these numbers look like Kodak stock.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

One can look at the latest fall ratings and conclude that a number of diaries were submitted to residents living in the city, thus the upswing for WDKX. Not that WDKX is a bad station to listen to; quite the contrary the station sounds a hell of a lot better than most.

It comes as no surprise to see WHAM fall to third place. Apparently the fallout from the firing of Beth Adams did have an impact (a slight one) on their ratings.

As for WYSL's showing; you will never see that station do well in the ratings because Bob Savage does not subscribe to Arbitron. In other words "you don't pay; you don't play."

Anyone who has been in the broadcasting business for years, or is associated with broadcasting, knows damn well that stations like Warsaw or Dansville do not have more listeners than WYSL just because of the signal coverage; or lack of it.

 

[Play Freebird]

Whoa Nelly! WDKX is on fire. Even though it's down a hair, WBEE is as strong as a horse, . Otherwise, these are some ugly ratings. Yes, it's Persons 12+. Is Wease carrying Fox on his gimpy knees? And CMF, which is up slightly, for a station that was once dominant. WUWT? Looks like a lot of fragmentation in the Persons 12+. Does any one station just blow the market away in Persons, Women and Men 25-54 or is it as fragmented as the 12+ appears. I'd bet WBEE owns all key demos except teens and 18-34, which go to WDKX. What happened to Christmas Music stations? Some of these numbers look like Kodak stock.

This demonstrates the wisdom of the Langston's decision not to waste money on HD Radio. If WDKX had offered alternative urban formats on HD-2 and -3 (assuming anyone was interested in buying digital radios), that nice fat share would have been chipped away. From a ranking perspective, they've been smart to leave well enough alone -- and to keep the station in the family under local control.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

As for WYSL's showing; you will never see that station do well in the ratings because Bob Savage does not subscribe to Arbitron. In other words "you don't pay; you don't play." Anyone who has been in the broadcasting business for years, or is associated with broadcasting, knows damn well that stations like Warsaw or Dansville do not have more listeners than WYSL just because of the signal coverage; or lack of it.

It's better to attribute the differential to statistical variables of the survey (see, "Nomograph") which are more of an indicator than the conspiracy theories. There have been stations that didn't pay, but had decent ratings. It happens. They then bought in so they could sell the gain. 'Guess that could be another conspiracy theory.

 

[Savage]

WYSL's "numbers," or lack thereof, are ridiculous. Most people - agencies and major advertisers included - know it. We ignore the "numbers" and sell "results."

Know the old phrase? "Live by the book, die by the book." I don't care how big or successful you are in Arbitron, it's only a matter of time until you get your comeuppance. WYSL's no-show in the book has actually turned out to be a blessing; we can focus on selling what really matters to advertisers. And they appreciate it: the pitch focuses on them and their needs, not the wonderfulness of the radio station.

Anyone who has gone in pitching "we're number ONE in (pick your demo)" and/or "we're up 25% from springtime" and saw a buyer roll her eyes, appreciates the wisdom of this.

 

[heydaybegone]

RCS..... ;D ;D ;D

That's all

HDBG

 

[aaronread]

I remember back in August of 2008 when WEOS somehow placed #1 in TSL for non-comm's, with double-digit figures...even though the AQH was less than 1%. The AQH was as it should be (since co-channel WITR prevents WEOS listening anywhere near Monroe County itself) but the TSL was a mystery. I suspect that two or three WEOS fans in Canandaigua got diaries that quarter and put WEOS down for all-day listening. It was good for a laugh, certainly...and I got to make a wonderfully awful "we drank their milkshake" pun that was still pretty timely.

Of course, it also makes the ratings system look pretty foolish...

 

[bmcglynn]

Arbitron ratings are subject to statistical bias, as any survey. In the summer Rochester book, WDNY had a .9 share. What does that mean? Basically, that there were likely a lot of diaries sent out in Southern Livingston County where we have a very loyal following. In the fall, we had a 0, in Spring - we'll probably see a .5 or a .9 if 2 or 3 Mount Morris residents see a diary in their mailbox.

In all reality, we're not part of any metro region - just that Livingston Country gets added to the Rochester DMA. With the same phenomenon, WDNY will pull a 1 share in Elmira-Corning when Northern Steuben gets a distribution of diaries just as when we pull a 1 share in the Olean book when Alfred gets a few diaries sent their way.

As Bob mentioned earlier, selling by the numbers in the book can be more harmful then helpful. If I set my rates at what a .9 is worth in Rochester - I would have no advertisers. We sell business results ... not statistics. Last week, I met with an advertisers that had to slow down their advertising this month because we sent too many people their direction and their classes were all booked. That sells... not a .9 in Rochester.

The same applies for large markets. WTOP billed over $60M last year in Washington, D.C. market. I'm certain if they priced their inventory out in Cost Per Point, they would have billed half of that.

 

[GeorgeKramer]

How do Schopp and the Bulldog fair in the Rochester ratings? I know they were on there for awhile, then off, and I believe they are back on in Rochester now.

 

[Bob1370]

If Schopp & the Bulldog are back on WROC it's so new it's not on their website. (Haven't tuned in the station in the last few days, maybe something's changed literally today, but last I checked they were running Doug Gottlieb from ESPN's national feed on 950 while corporate stablemate WGR/550 is airing Mike Schopp & Bulldog Parker.)

 

[turmoil1000]

How do Schopp and the Bulldog fair in the Rochester ratings? I know they were on there for awhile, then off, and I believe they are back on in Rochester now.

they aren't on there, and i thank god for it everyday. they suck and can keep their act in ruff buff and out of crapchester.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Thanks for nothing. We were hoping you'd take them.

 

[Element9]

Dear Diary, It looks like there are problems with PPM. It may be a while before PPM makes it to Rochester and Buffalo.

Only 9 of Arbitron’s 48 PPM markets are now accredited by the Media Rating Council. This isn’t the direction CEO Bill Kerr wanted to go in, and it’s not what Arbitron needs to keep its promises to various state attorneys general. It’s not for lack of trying, and no doubt Arbitron is now especially frustrated at losing MRC accreditation for these five markets - Cleveland, Portland (Oregon), Riverside, Salt Lake City and Tampa. Nine other markets continue to carry the MRC double checkmarks - Atlanta, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Phoenix and St. Louis. Count very early market Houston in there, too, though it’s using a set of procedures that Arbitron refuses to implement elsewhere because of cost. (Would the Council prefer wider usage of the Houston model?) Arbitron EVP Gregg Lindner says "we will work to retain accreditation where we have it, to regain accreditation where it was withdrawn, and to achieve accreditation in our remaining PPM markets." As is customary, neither Arbitron nor the Council explained why accreditation was lost in five markets. Read the Arbitron press release here.

 

[GeorgeKramer]

Yup, no Schopp and Bulldog on in Rochester anymore.

Anyone think there's a possibility they get brought back to that market later this year now that WGR is "the radio home of the Bills" or did Mike and Chris fail in Ra Cha Cha and there's no chance they get another shot there?

Mike has a Rochester background in radio, but I can imagine that most Rochester people just aren't that into two Buffalo-based guys talking mostly Buffalo sports.

 

[John C]

Yup, no Schopp and Bulldog on in Rochester anymore.

Anyone think there's a possibility they get brought back to that market later this year now that WGR is "the radio home of the Bills" or did Mike and Chris fail in Ra Cha Cha and there's no chance they get another shot there?

Mike has a Rochester background in radio, but I can imagine that most Rochester people just aren't that into two Buffalo-based guys talking mostly Buffalo sports.

My two cents is that most Rochester people wouldn't be into those two people talking about Buffalo sports.

 

[Bob1370]

"My two cents is that most Rochester people wouldn't be into those two people talking about Buffalo sports."

Funny thing is, Schopp did OK when he was in Rochester on WHTK. And I can't imagine that Bulldog Parker was the problem.

The problem with the Schopp/Bulldog simulcast in Rochester could well have been WROC-AM's godawful directional pattern, which finds a way to miss more of even the inner-ring suburbs in Monroe County both day and night than any other signal in the market.

WROC-AM as currently configured is a total waste of 1000 watts, because it can only reliably serve the city and its northern burbs, less than half the total 12+ population in the market. Either an urban-oriented format like classic soul gold (like WWWS in Buffalo) or a Spanish-language format that hits the 50,000 Spanish speakers in the area (nearly all of whom live in the city and the northern burbs 950 can reach) would make sense for that signal, but nothing else.

 

[John C]

"My two cents is that most Rochester people wouldn't be into those two people talking about Buffalo sports."

Funny thing is, Schopp did OK when he was in Rochester on WHTK. And I can't imagine that Bulldog Parker was the problem.

The problem with the Schopp/Bulldog simulcast in Rochester could well have been WROC-AM's godawful directional pattern, which finds a way to miss more of even the inner-ring suburbs in Monroe County both day and night than any other signal in the market.

WROC-AM as currently configured is a total waste of 1000 watts, because it can only reliably serve the city and its northern burbs, less than half the total 12+ population in the market. Either an urban-oriented format like classic soul gold (like WWWS in Buffalo) or a Spanish-language format that hits the 50,000 Spanish speakers in the area (nearly all of whom live in the city and the northern burbs 950 can reach) would make sense for that signal, but nothing else.

Bob, I enjoyed Schopp when he was at WHAM/WHTK and later WNSA. It's his condescending attitude at WGR that causes me to find another station on days when he's in a pissy mood toward the listeners.

 

[Element9]

Bob, I enjoyed Schopp when he was at WHAM/WHTK and later WNSA. It's his condescending attitude at WGR that causes me to find another station on days when he's in a pissy mood toward the listeners.

And what days might those not be? The guy's talented, but insufferable.