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Rochester Radio history Question

As I understand it, WHEC-TV originated from two different AM radio stations, WHEC and WVET on 1280 and 1460 respectively. How did both stations end up folding?  In addition, what happened to WARC 950 and WRNY 680? How did the WRNY letters get swapped over to Rome? Why didn't anyone take over the 680 signal? Was it because of WINR?

Sorry if it seems like a lot of questions but my curiousity it peaking :)
 
dustintv said:
As I understand it, WHEC-TV originated from two different AM radio stations, WHEC and WVET on 1280 and 1460 respectively. How did both stations end up folding? In addition, what happened to WARC 950 and WRNY 680? How did the WRNY letters get swapped over to Rome? Why didn't anyone take over the 680 signal? Was it because of WINR?

1280 was WROC, studio co-located/owned with Ch 8 on Humboldt Street. WHEC-1460 made way for WAXC-1460 in the realy 1970's. WHEC radio was always a second to WHAM, both of which played softer contemporary music at the time. WAXC began with a bang in early 70's as a competitor to WBBF-950, the long-time king of top-40 in the 60's and early-mid 70's. - WVET was a previous set of calls to WROC-1280, and I think the TV too, WROC-TV (8) prior to 1967. - WVET and WHEC didn't really 'fold' but rather just did what happens in every other market...format and call-letter changes.
 
dustintv said:
As I understand it, WHEC-TV originated from two different AM radio stations, WHEC and WVET on 1280 and 1460 respectively. How did both stations end up folding? In addition, what happened to WARC 950 and WRNY 680? How did the WRNY letters get swapped over to Rome? Why didn't anyone take over the 680 signal? Was it because of WINR?

Sorry if it seems like a lot of questions but my curiousity it peaking :)

I probably shouldn't bother since Scott is going to do a much better job (grin) but...

- The 680 signal moved to 990 and is today WLGZ. From what I understand, the licensee of the 680 station in Toronto paid for the frequency change.

- Presumably WARC 950 simply changed call letters (a few times?) and was the same station that's now WROC?

- WHEC-TV:
When founded in 1953, it shared time on channel 10 with WVET-TV.
In 1961 the two stations bought out WHAM-TV channel 8. WVET took over the channel fulltime (and changed call letters to WROC-TV); WHEC got full-time occupancy of channel 10.
The WHAM-TV that exists today on channel 13 is not really related to the one that existed in 1961 on channel 8.
Both radio stations still exist, after a number of call changes.
 
950 used to be WBBF-AM, which at one time was the premier rock and roll station in Rochester featuring such announcers as Jerry Fogel (who went to Hollywood to become an actor), Ferdinand J Smith (who owned his own ad agency) Jack Palvino (who was co-owner of WVOR 100.5FM and later WHAM) Leon Margarite (sp) who I believe went on to be a bus driver, Nick Nickson, who is still alive and kicking, and numerous other announcers. I think Bob Savage once worked at WBBF if memory serves me correctly?

990-AM was WNYR, which was owned by Malrite and was the sister station of WEZO-FM, which during the early 80s was the number 1 rated station in Rochester known for its 'easy listening format.' 990-AM eventually went through a series of call letter changes (WEZO-AM and now Legends 990) and formats under different owners. Originally it was a pretty decent station that played country music with personality announcers, plus had a decent local news operation and managed to beat off an FM competitor. It wasn't a lack of listeners that killed off WNYR, but the numerous owners the station had over a nine year period.
 
A bit of 680 WRNY trivia: Johnny Holliday, a famous Top 40 DJ, and current play-by-play voice of the University of Maryland Terrapins spent an early part of his career at WRNY.
 
Can't let Doug down, now can I?

The 680/990 history - including the explanation of why the 680 frequency wasn't reused - is covered pretty exhaustively here: http://www.fybush.com/sites/2007/site-070928.html

950's history is here: http://www.fybush.com/sites/2007/site-070921.html

1460 is here: http://www.fybush.com/sites/2006/site-060915.html (with the added note that the station has since made plans to move off the 950 site. Its new site in Henrietta now has towers up and will soon be in operation.)

1280's history - at least the piece of it that answers the "what ever happened to WVET?" question - is here: http://www.fybush.com/sites/2007/site-070914.html

(Miss a Tower Site of the Week, miss a lot...)
 
Oops, Scott's history is much more accurate than my aging memory. It was WRVM at the time. Consider it a senior moment... ;D
 
Mark, I gotta call you on the "beat an FM competitor" comment re WNYR. I worked for that FM competitor (WZKC), and it was a solid #3 25-54 in the market when the format was flipped to classic hits WKLX in Summer of 1986. WZKC performed well, with about double the share and cume of WNYR at the time. When Josephson sold WZKC to the Sconnix-financed First Valley group (Dan Wachs and Bob Dodenhoff), those new owners, having once worked at WCMF, had it in for their old alma mater and went after them. Further, during the entire 16 month history of WZKC, the GM bragged to anyone in town who would listen that we were only doing country because of a covenant with Lincoln Group that kept us from competing with WVOR. Because of that constant reinforcement, the folks at WNYR hung in there with country, waiting for ZKC to blow itself up. And, sure enough, it did. This account proves itself by the rapid deployment of adult standards on 990 once WBEE-FM was launched on the former Q92/WMJQ/WBFB. Had they been convinced that WZKC was there to stay, they would have dropped country in 1985 when WHFM went away, and WZKC would have performed at a much higher level of ratings performance. It almost seems that the fix was in from the beginning.

From what I understand, the CRTC in Canada gave special dispensation for WNYR to move to Canadian clear 990 as a favor to the powerful Rogers media empire so that they could open up the pattern of CFTR and boost its daytime power. I'm sure Mr. Fybush has that info for you.
 
Cary Pall said:
Mark, I gotta call you on the "beat an FM competitor" comment re WNYR. I worked for that FM competitor (WZKC), and it was a solid #3 25-54 in the market when the format was flipped to classic hits WKLX in Summer of 1986. WZKC performed well, with about double the share and cume of WNYR at the time. When Josephson sold WZKC to the Sconnix-financed First Valley group (Dan Wachs and Bob Dodenhoff), those new owners, having once worked at WCMF, had it in for their old alma mater and went after them. Further, during the entire 16 month history of WZKC, the GM bragged to anyone in town who would listen that we were only doing country because of a covenant with Lincoln Group that kept us from competing with WVOR. Because of that constant reinforcement, the folks at WNYR hung in there with country, waiting for ZKC to blow itself up. And, sure enough, it did. This account proves itself by the rapid deployment of adult standards on 990 once WBEE-FM was launched on the former Q92/WMJQ/WBFB. Had they been convinced that WZKC was there to stay, they would have dropped country in 1985 when WHFM went away, and WZKC would have performed at a much higher level of ratings performance. It almost seems that the fix was in from the beginning.

From what I understand, the CRTC in Canada gave special dispensation for WNYR to move to Canadian clear 990 as a favor to the powerful Rogers media empire so that they could open up the pattern of CFTR and boost its daytime power. I'm sure Mr. Fybush has that info for you.

Perhaps the better terminology was WNYR “outlasted” an FM competitor (KZ-99).

Let me pass along to you an interesting, and true story. During a manager’s meeting, long before KZ 99 came into existence, I suggested that WNYR’s country format switch with WEZO and the ‘easy listening’ format go to 990 AM, with an emphasis on local news and also featuring Paul Harvey news and commentary.

That idea was shot down by both the GM and sales manager, with one of them saying no one would listen to country music on an FM station; and the best way to garner ratings would be for WEZO to switch format to be competitive with WVOR.

While 101.3( later changed to the WRMM call letters) did eventually outlast WVOR (or whatever they call themselves today) I truly believe that had management listened to me at the time (back in the 1980s) that my idea would have proven to be a successful combo.
 
This is just weird. WZKC never performed well and its successor, WKLX, had one decent book and tanked. Nobody remembers any of these so-called "performers". The BUZZ is the only format that ever had any success at 98.9.
 
slickkicker said:
This is just weird. WZKC never performed well and its successor, WKLX, had one decent book and tanked. Nobody remembers any of these so-called "performers". The BUZZ is the only format that ever had any success at 98.9.

Back in the 1970s WHFM did alright when the station had live announcers. Unfortunately the decision was made to automate the station, except mornings, and the ratings tanked.

Plus I remember that there was one PD who loved to experiment with unknown artists. So while other stations were playing top 50 tunes, WHFM was playing songs nobody was familar with.
 
Slickkicker: You obviously never looked at an Arbitron book in 1985 or 1986. KC-99 was doing very well before it was sold. Pre-dated the "New Country" trend of the early 90s by five, count 'em, FIVE years. WKLX did alright under Bobby Hatfield's watch, then sunk like a rock after Bill Tod took over, and never did a whole lot after it switched to "Classic Oldies". Much later, it did darn well under the same Bobby Hatfield as 99BBF before The Buzz displaced it (and rightly so, I might add...the pressure to get younger demos forced that move). The only thing weird about your post is its lack of knowledge about market history.

Mark, I believe your plan would have done very well at WEZO/WNYR.
 
slickkicker said:
This is just weird. WZKC never performed well and its successor, WKLX, had one decent book and tanked. Nobody remembers any of these so-called "performers". The BUZZ is the only format that ever had any success at 98.9.

Not entirely true.

The first time WKLX went Oldies ('87-'94) the station did quite well - or as well as one could do with 'CMF far and away the market leader. . 'KLX beat or nearly beat WVOR in 25-54 most of the time.
 
slickkicker said:
The BUZZ is the only format that ever had any success at 98.9.

I agree (mostly) with Cary Pall and Rob Stutson. WKLX/WBBF pulled respectable ratings as classic hits and, later, oldies in the late ’80s and ’90s, including very decent morning-drive numbers by Chuck Lakefield in 1993 (and, I might add, “The Jukebox,” which I hosted 1995-2000, achieved very nice 25-54 numbers—as did “Jukebox Saturday Night,” hosted by my predecessors, Nick Evans and Joe Deane).

Moreover, though, I disagree with slickkicker’s contention, “The Buzz is the only format that ever had any success at 98.9.” This simply isn’t true. Since its debut as the Buzz in late 2000, it has typically hovered around the middle of the pack, gaining anywhere from a four to a six share. In summer 2007, it was in sixth place overall with less than a six share. I would describe that not as “success,” but as “treading water”—particularly considering the fact that WKLX/WBBF often performed as well or better.

Lastly, on only one point do I disagree with Cary. In six years at WKLX/WBBF, I worked under at least five PDs (and an almost equal number of OMs). They included, in chronological order, Al Brock, Denny Alexander, Todd Blide (as interim PD on at least one occasion), Chris Whittingham and Bobby Hatfield (on his second time around). If I were ranking them from “best to worst,” there might be a tie for first, but Hatfield would still be fifth....
 
O.K. Cary I did the research in that market back in the day and there's a reason why WZKC/WNYR/WEZO/WHFM/WKLX and others don't sport those calls in the Rochester market anymore. WZKC was a Top Forty approach that was ahead of its time and I'll give you that. Unfortunatly country listeners didn't appreciate the slick stylings that WZKC presented to an unsuspecting northeast town that always had a fairly love/hate relationship with rural music. That all changed somewhat eventually.

ZKC had some signal limitations that were eventually improved at 98.9. The station did rather limited marketing although it was THERE, and WBEE would eventually take advantage of the big hole for the next...few decades.

I doubt anyone at WBEE would credit WZKC as being a groundbreaker for country in Rochester. Why anyone would trumpet WZKC, WKLX or even WHFM is a little beyond me. I stand by my previous post (even though the catalyst for my buying an FM receiver back in the early 70's was WHFM/99), the Buzz has had the most success at 98.9.
 
Mike Saffran said:
Lastly, on only one point do I disagree with Cary. In six years at WKLX/WBBF, I worked under at least five PDs (and an almost equal number of OMs). They included, in chronological order, Al Brock, Denny Alexander, Todd Blide (as interim PD on at least one occasion), Chris Whittingham and Bobby Hatfield (on his second time around). If I were ranking them from “best to worst,” there might be a tie for first, but Hatfield would still be fifth....

Mike,

I didn't want to bring up this subject, but since you did I will just add that one reason the staff, which included myself, at WNYR "hung in there" against KC 99 was because of one of the PD's you mentioned. The plain truth is many of us wanted get 'even' with him for what he did while holding the same job at WNYR.

Since this is ancient history I won’t go into lengthy details, but will just say that while I have no problem with one person leaving a station to work for another, I do have a problem when that individual, knowing they are going to work for a competitor, tries in my opinion to sabotage their current employer by playing with the format almost on a weekly basis.

I have always believed that his individual, knowing he was going to set up a competitive format on an FM station, did his best to wreck WNYR; and to me that is unforgivable. He knew for a period of time he would be leaving, but instead of informing management, he continued to wreak havoc with the music format and the news department. As news director, I personally found it upsetting that he ‘tinkered’ with our news operation, which by the way ended up being the same type of news format he used for KC99.

While I wished no ill-will on the staff at KC 99, I for one didn’t shed a tear when the PD you mentioned left town.
 
slickkicker said:
I stand by my previous post (even though the catalyst for my buying an FM receiver back in the early 70's was WHFM/99), the Buzz has had the most success at 98.9.

But that isn't what you posted. Let me remind you:

slickkicker said:
This is just weird. WZKC never performed well and its successor, WKLX, had one decent book and tanked. Nobody remembers any of these so-called "performers". The BUZZ is the only format that ever had any success at 98.9.

Big difference between "most" and "any". And I would agree with the "most" statement.

One other small correction:

Mike Saffran said:
I agree (mostly) with Cary Pall and Rob Stutson. WKLX/WBBF pulled respectable ratings as classic hits and, later, oldies in the late ’80s and ’90s, including very decent morning-drive numbers by Chuck Lakefield in 1993 (and, I might add, “The Jukebox,” which I hosted 1995-2000, achieved very nice 25-54 numbers—as did “Jukebox Saturday Night,” hosted by my predecessors, Nick Evans and Joe Deane).

"Jukebox Saturday Night" started out as the "Saturday Night Jukebox Party" in July of 1988. Al Brock changed the name to "JSN" in 1991.

Its original host was Rockin' Rich Albert, who was there until 1993. IIRC, the show broke out with phenomenal ratings and always did well.

BTW - Peter King and Shari Smith also pulled down some pretty good AM drive numbers too.
 
Rob Stutson said:
"Jukebox Saturday Night" started out as the "Saturday Night Jukebox Party" in July of 1988. Al Brock changed the name to "JSN" in 1991.

Its original host was Rockin' Rich Albert, who was there until 1993. IIRC, the show broke out with phenomenal ratings and always did well.

BTW - Peter King and Shari Smith also pulled down some pretty good AM drive numbers too.

Thanks for the clarification, Rob. When I began hosting “The Jukebox” in January 1995 (assuming the reigns from Nick Evans—or “Big John” as some of us knew him from earlier ’PXY days :), I tried always to be mindful of the legacy I inherited. So, I’m grateful for your addition of Rockin’ Rich Albert’s name to the list. (I had heard the name, but I never knew him.)

I’ll add, the show’s name changed from “Jukebox Saturday Night” (presumably named after the great Sam Cooke song of the same name) to “The Saturday Night All-Request Rock ’n’ Roll Jukebox” in April 1998 (along with the station’s name change from “Oldies 98-9 WKLX” to “99BBF”). But because that was such a mouthful to say, I often shortened live references to simply “The Jukebox” (but some of the show’s pre-recorded sweepers gave the full name).

Finally, I was probably remiss in not also mentioning Ellis B. Feaster and Dee Dee Sharp, who deserve credit for decent morning-drive ratings in 1996; and, of course, Mike Vickers was the very, very popular and successful midday guy through many PD changes.
 
Mike Saffran said:


I’ll add, the show’s name changed from “Jukebox Saturday Night” (presumably named after the great Sam Cooke song of the same name)


Just a picky point of information:

The Sam Cooke classic was "Saturday Night".

"Jukebox Saturday Night" was a song by Glenn Miller and sung by The Modernaires...who, by the way, attended Lafayette High School in Buffalo.

Now, let's get back to our bickering.
 
Slickkicker: You obviously never looked at an Arbitron book in 1985 or 1986. KC-99 was doing very well before it was sold. Pre-dated the "New Country" trend of the early 90s by five, count 'em, FIVE years. WKLX did alright under Bobby Hatfield's watch, then sunk like a rock after Bill Tod took over, and never did a whole lot after it switched to "Classic Oldies". Much later, it did darn well under the same Bobby Hatfield as 99BBF before The Buzz displaced it (and rightly so, I might add...the pressure to get younger demos forced that move). The only thing weird about your post is its lack of knowledge about market history.

Cary, you obviously know what you're talking about. Bottom line, the 98.9 frequency in Rochester, post-Bill Rust/WHFM right through November 2000(when the Buzz signed on) had really good numbers only under Bobby Hatfield. At the time BBF was switched to it's doom at 93.3, BBF was getting killer numbers at 98.9.

I once worked for Bobby - long, long ago. He was great to me. Yes, he's a fiercely competitive guy and ruffles a few feathers from time to time, but if you worked hard for him and delivered on-air, he was aces.
 
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