Rochester Ratings---10's Tumble!

[prompter]

While Hubbard Broadcasting, like most media companies, scales back, why don't they deep six Frank Magid and his merry band of research flunkies? Exhibit A) year to year ratings. In November of 2007, WHEC did a 6 rating/20 share at 11pm. In this most recent November book, 10 had a significant drop. WHEC did a 4 rating/14 share. Because they don't trust their own instincts, 10 relies heavily on Magid, and as a result, the research company has sent its clients shows into a tailspin. At what point does Klinsky say enough is enough and get rid of this waste? For a station that has such excess, they are the third place station in the coveted 11pm hour----at a time when the two other stations in town, with considerably smaller staffs, are taking them to the cleaners. The story at 6pm is just as grim. A year ago, WHEC did a 9.5/22 and this time around they fell to a 7.6/17. Maybe the forced-fed "Breaking News" crap they keep airing is not working. Maybe all the in-depth investigative stuff is too passe. Maybe the decimation of a once-proud sports department was a mistake. Maybe taking a talented Health Reporter and pretty much making her do sports wasn't the right call. WHEC-TV has the most robust staff in town, many of them very talented people. At what point does the top brass there say "screw Magid, we know our market better than they do." And you can't blame the HUT levels on the precipitous fall. WROC-TV has gained, at 11, exactly what WHEC has lost. 8 and 13 are dead even on the late show. Say what you want about lead-ins and the like, the fact is, viewers have left 10NBC's product in a big way. Enough of the consultant B.S., be your own man. Magid is expendable!

 

[rocktv]

13 was the clear winner at 11. 10 had a bad book. 8 stayed mostly flat.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Maybe the forced-fed "Breaking News" crap they keep airing is not working. Maybe all the in-depth investigative stuff is too passe. Maybe the decimation of a once-proud sports department was a mistake.

10's news has become stale. The same stories that were featured during the early mornings are also on at noon, 5, 6, & 7 pm and sometimes the following morning.
I'm in agreement that 10's "Breaking News", or as I call it "The Sky is Falling/Chicken Little" approach to grab the attention of viewers has worn out its welcome.
I bet the folks at 10 who made the decision years ago to dump CBS in favor of NBC are regretting it now. Channel 8's news benefits from CBS's line-up, while 10 has to suffer with the crud NBC is offering.
Nobody has mentioned it, but could 10's 11pm numbers have also been negatively impacted when Jennifer Johnson was promoted as co-anchor?
With Hubbard recently axing personnel at one of their TV stations, one has to wonder if pink slips are being prepared for some staff at Channel 10? It can't help 10's cause when they come in third behind Channel 8.

 

[rocktv]

The numbers certainly don't follow her.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

The numbers certainly don't follow her.

It appears that the "Johnson" experiment hasn't worked out for WHEC at 11pm. I have to wonder if Lomax will be asked to return to co-anchor 11pm, with a sizeable raise in salary of course?

 

[BobRoss]

I'm in agreement that 10's "Breaking News", or as I call it "The Sky is Falling/Chicken Little" approach to grab the attention of viewers has worn out its welcome.

As I've mentioned here in the past, Syracuse went through similar pains a few years ago. It started with WSTM calling everything "breaking news," even 6, 8 or as much as 12 hours after the event happened. Unfortunately, WSYR and WTVH both stooped to WSTM's level. Thankfully, neither of them went as far as WSTM did, but it seems as if it was just a "phase" everyone went through (or a News Director, in WSTM's case) and the "everything is breaking news" mentality has faded away. Glad to see that Rochester may soon be returning to normal as well.

It's one thing when you're in a major city like New York or LA, where there really is breaking news all the time (to the point that actually, almost NOTHING is called "breaking news" there because fires/shootings/etc. are so routine)... but let's not kid ourselves here in upstate NY.

 

[tvfun]

13 is the dominant #1 news station and every ratings book proves it. 10 is a consistant #2 in most ratings books with a slip here or there at 11pm. 8 struggles and only with the help of CBS primetime do they pull themselves out of the basement at 11. With the lead in they get every night at 11pm they should be smoking everyone but people just don't stay with them. If 8 is so much better than 10 why doesn't it show up in the mornings, 5 and at 6? They're 3rd all the time. When was the last time they didn't finish 3rd in these times slots? We can keep debating this but we won't see any changes in this market until Don decides he wants to sign off and enjoy retirement and even then Doug could keep 13 a dominant #1. Will 8 overtake 10 for 2nd? I doubt it. They haven't yet in all the newscasts and only at 11 has 8 shown up. Again thanks to CBS and really NBC being an embarassment.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

13 is the dominant #1 news station and every ratings book proves it. 10 is a consistant #2 in most ratings books with a slip here or there at 11pm. 8 struggles and only with the help of CBS primetime do they pull themselves out of the basement at 11. With the lead in they get every night at 11pm they should be smoking everyone but people just don't stay with them. If 8 is so much better than 10 why doesn't it show up in the mornings, 5 and at 6? They're 3rd all the time. When was the last time they didn't finish 3rd in these times slots? We can keep debating this but we won't see any changes in this market until Don decides he wants to sign off and enjoy retirement and even then Doug could keep 13 a dominant #1. Will 8 overtake 10 for 2nd? I doubt it. They haven't yet in all the newscasts and only at 11 has 8 shown up. Again thanks to CBS and really NBC being an embarassment.

13 is a smart organization. For years they have been allowing the so-called farm system to work within their organization. Meaning they are ready for the day Alhart retires by keeping Emblidge on board as the heir apparent. Also notice that 13 allows a number of their reporters to also perform anchor duties on occasion.
As for Channel 8, it is the CBS network line-up that has allowed them to generate any ratings. 8 has always had the problem of owners and managers who would rather (pardon the phrase) sh** can experienced employees just to save a few bucks rather than groom employees like 13 has. 8's nightly anchor team has managed to maintain what creditability is left at WROC and they should be congratulated for that.
Channel 10's 11pm decline, I believe, is due in part to NBC's poor line up of network shows, and that there are some people who are not impressed with Jennifer Johnson as co-anchor. No offense against Ms. Johnson, who I hear is a very nice person, but Rochester TV viewers are very conservative and sometimes fickle.

 

[[email protected]]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that there is no sports anchor for the 11 PM newscast ? Brett Stagnetti reports Thursday night thru Sunday night. He does the feature report on the Buffalo Bills on Wednesday but Rich Funke does the sports Monday- Wednesday night. Now I love Rich but since he is the news anchor it seems that Channel 10 doesn't care enough about Sports to hire another sportscaster.

Of course Robin Dewind , Sports Director is never on the air at 11PM. I can't help but think that her presence alone at 11PM will at least let the viewers know that Channel 10 cares about Sports plus give Dewind more creditability with the viewers for being on at both 6 and 11 . I don't think Jennifer Johnson is that bad . The weather is solid with both Williams and Nichols. They need to figure out the sports because firing Mark Gruba, who had a very good following was obviously the wrong move. The person who fired Gruba should be fired for messing up the Sports.

 

[prompter]

I find it funny that the 8 bashers still persist on hammering away at Commander Walsh's platoon of newsgatherers on Humboldt St. Yes, 8 does benefit from a strong CBS primetime lineup, just like 13 feasts of mammoth Oprah audience, which feeds right into their 5pm hour and sets up their 6. Give credit where credit is due. 8 was a non factor for years, had news and weather anchors in and out of the seats there faster than Gov. Patterson can tax your I-tune downloads--they now have solid stability on the main desk and maybe, just maybe, they are winning over enough viewers to make them relevant in the ratings race---that was not the case during the years of the revolving door. Not to mention, they are churning out more news content than anyone in the market, by a mile, with half the people. The bashing should be squarely placed on WHEC-TV and their meteoric fall year to year.

 

[rochnewsman]

I have given up on Channel 10. I have found myself watching more of 8 instead. I'll usually flip between 8 and 13 most of the time.

 

[Mr. Kite!]

Not to mention, they are churning out more news content than anyone in the market, by a mile, with half the people.

Too bad the people won't see one red cent for working so hard.

 

[newscool]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that there is no sports anchor for the 11 PM newscast ? Brett Stagnetti reports Thursday night thru Sunday night. He does the feature report on the Buffalo Bills on Wednesday but Rich Funke does the sports Monday- Wednesday night. Now I love Rich but since he is the news anchor it seems that Channel 10 doesn't care enough about Sports to hire another sportscaster.

Of course Robin Dewind , Sports Director is never on the air at 11PM. I can't help but think that her presence alone at 11PM will at least let the viewers know that Channel 10 cares about Sports plus give Dewind more creditability with the viewers for being on at both 6 and 11 . I don't think Jennifer Johnson is that bad . The weather is solid with both Williams and Nichols. They need to figure out the sports because firing Mark Gruba, who had a very good following was obviously the wrong move. The person who fired Gruba should be fired for messing up the Sports.

I agree with you 100%! I posted something about this awhile back on robin dewind and got chewed out by every poster that replied. I simpley stated that Robin dewind has no sports credibility and all she is doing is reading a script. Why fire a sports purist and replace him with a medical reporter?! Whoever made that move should be tarred and feathered! And if Mrs. dewind is the "Sports Director" like they always label her, she needs to be on at 11pm or not have the job at all. I am a longtime 10 viewer, but their news and product have went way down the tubes. I make sure I turn the channel way before the sports segment comes on. At least Gruba was interesting. Mrs. Dewind brings nothing to the table. I think they felt sorry for her and didn't want to fire her, so they moved her to sports. I don't even like Kevin Williams as Chief meteorologist. He is a boring weatherman. Channel 10 needs to be embarrassed for making a move like that. Look at Channel 8. I think they have the best sports team and coverage. Let's hope 10 will finally realize they made a mistake and yank Robin dewind off the airways forever.

 

[tvfun]

Prompter continues to bash 10 but fails to explain why 8 hasn't overtaken 10 in the ratings in the mornings, 5 and 6. If Jerry's kids are so much better and 10 sucks so bad why haven't they become the #2 station in the market. As for local sports, would it really make that much of a difference if Robin anchored at 11pm? For the 3 minutes at 11:20pm when the majority of the audience has turned the tv off and has gone to bed does it really matter? Does not having her there really kill their ratings? I doubt it. Maybe I'm wrong but with ESPN and the internet I don't see many people staying up that late 5 nights a week. R News covers local sports the best anyways.

 

[[email protected]]

Actually I like Robin Dewind. All I'm saying is that she needs to start working the 11 PM sports cast to give her more creditability. Mark Gruba was a very strong personality and did a great job. However he is no longer employed so lets start to see Dewind at 11 and lets see what she has to offer.

 

[flubber]

Prompter continues to bash 10 but fails to explain why 8 hasn't overtaken 10 in the ratings in the mornings, 5 and 6. If Jerry's kids are so much better and 10 sucks so bad why haven't they become the #2 station in the market. As for local sports, would it really make that much of a difference if Robin anchored at 11pm? For the 3 minutes at 11:20pm when the majority of the audience has turned the tv off and has gone to bed does it really matter? Does not having her there really kill their ratings? I doubt it. Maybe I'm wrong but with ESPN and the internet I don't see many people staying up that late 5 nights a week. R News covers local sports the best anyways.

R News covers local sports the best anyways???
Have you heard of a little something called Football Frenzy and the Roundball Roundup. 8 makes every effort to get to every game going on in Section V in both Football and Basketball and R News has the best local coverage. R News only started covering local sports with any aggression because of what they are doing on Humboldt Street. As for the rest of the local sports coverage on 10 and 13, thanks but no thanks. Maybe they get to a game or two and that's on a Friday night when the Sports departments should be cranking. The guys at 8 should be commended for their efforts.

 

[newscool]

Prompter continues to bash 10 but fails to explain why 8 hasn't overtaken 10 in the ratings in the mornings, 5 and 6. If Jerry's kids are so much better and 10 sucks so bad why haven't they become the #2 station in the market. As for local sports, would it really make that much of a difference if Robin anchored at 11pm? For the 3 minutes at 11:20pm when the majority of the audience has turned the tv off and has gone to bed does it really matter? Does not having her there really kill their ratings? I doubt it. Maybe I'm wrong but with ESPN and the internet I don't see many people staying up that late 5 nights a week. R News covers local sports the best anyways.

R News covers local sports the best anyways???
Have you heard of a little something called Football Frenzy and the Roundball Roundup. 8 makes every effort to get to every game going on in Section V in both Football and Basketball and R News has the best local coverage. R News only started covering local sports with any aggression because of what they are doing on Humboldt Street. As for the rest of the local sports coverage on 10 and 13, thanks but no thanks. Maybe they get to a game or two and that's on a Friday night when the Sports departments should be cranking. The guys at 8 should be commended for their efforts.



















Yeah, I have been really impressed with 8' Football frenzy. The best sports talent, and best coverage. That's why 10 should be embarrassed with what they are putting out. Robin Dewind cannot compare to John Kucko and Thad Brown. As for 13, they seem to have problem with sports on-air talent behind Mike Catalana. Say what you want about 8, but they are trying, 10 doesn't seem to care anymore.

 

[newscool]

Sorry if I quoted in the wrong space. Like I was saying, Channel 8 has been really agressive and is really trying to get out of the basement. 10 doesn't seem to care, which will eventuallu come back to haunt them. I will say this, 10 has the best weather team out the three, and the best weather period. I can't stand Kevin Williams, but he brings a lot of experience.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

IMHO I don't think the absence of Robin DeWind at 11pm is the reason Channel 10's ratings have declined.
As previously posted, I maintain that 8's 11pm ratings improved mainly because the CBS network line-up is much stronger than NBC's. I also believe that people, including yours truly, have grown tired of 10's constant "Breaking News" philosophy, especially when it comes to stories that were featured the previous day.
Someone else on here was correct in their post that if 8 was a serious challenger to 10, why then does 10 beat out 8 during the rest of the newscasts ( Early mornings, noon, 5, 6)?
It is going to take Channel 8 more than just a few months under “Jerry’s Kids" to get rid of the stigma the station has had for over three decades. That being either getting rid of or forcing out experienced reporters and other staff and replacing them with inexperienced on-air talent and people who have little to no knowledge of the Rochester market.
Maybe 8 has finally settled down where it will pay more attention to building up a staff instead of wondering how to get rid of more people to balance the books. Meanwhile the staff at 10 should be concerned, especially after recent developments at another Hubbard station. 10 could lose a few on and off air staff and it wouldn't really impact their current product.

 

[Rochwatcher]

It was not that long ago that 10 was fighting with 13 as the ratings leader...now they are trying to fend off 8 for second/third place. Yes, no doubt about it, 10 has fallen, but this is not really that recent...it has been a steady fall over several years.

In my opinion their decline is based on two factors--programming, and personnel decisions.

NBC prime-time programming is probably worse than it has ever been--and it has been bad for several years...compare that with CBS's programming--with huge lead ins at 11. (I actually think 8's numbers should be higher than they are given the fact that their programming is so dominant--but I will leave that discussion for another day). 13 is going to always have their dedicated viewers, 8 is going to have their viewers who watch their news because they watch their programming....and 10 is left all the sudden with scraps.

As far as personnel...it was pointed out before, and I believe correctly that 10's numbers began to fall especially at 11pm when Jennifer was put on the anchor desk. She has credibility issues, and has not translated to viewers. The question becomes how far will they have to fall before a change is made there?