Rochester TV Ratings: An Observation

[IlDuce]

By "Rating" (not share) * Note: Ratings provided by Kohoutek.

6am

13: 5
10: 2
8: 2

From Channel 10's perspective being tied with Channel 8's early morning show should give Arnie & Company on East Avenue some concern. If you take into consideration the promotional effort for Channel 10's early morning program, add to that last year's game of musical chairs when it came to personnel changes at 8, then compare both shows when it comes to content and personality, Channel 10 should be way ahead of 8 in this time period.
Over on Humboldt Street these figures give management the bragging rights to say “see we told you so" when it comes to their decision to make changes to “Wake Up Rochester”.I have to admit that I am puzzled by 8’s increase in the ratings. Their current early morning program is a disaster. Both the hosts are stiff, boring and lack personality.
As for 13 being number one in the mornings, that’s a no- brainer. Using a baseball metaphor, 13 has a better line up of players than 10 and especially 8.
However the criticism that I have about 13’s morning show is that there is too many “fillers” IE: dancing with local celebrities, along with too much chit-chat and constant weather reports. If 13 is going to have that kind of format, then get from behind the anchor desk and create a “Today Show” type of atmosphere.

5pm
13: 9
10: 5
8: 3

6pm
13: 12
10: 9
8: 6

Two words for 13's big audience increase at 6pm: Don Alhart.

11p
13: 7
10: 5
8: 5

Here is another puzzling set of numbers. For 10 to be tied with 8 at 11pm is indeed not very good news for 10. At one time 10 and 13 battled for first place at both 6 and 11. Now it appears that 10 is slipping while 13 remains top dog.( But not by much according to these figures)
This is where I believe 8 benefits from being a CBS network affiliate. It is very possible that people are starting to buck the trend of switching channels at 11:00 p.m and staying with 8. It also doesn’t hurt being associated with the number one network. Despite my criticism of 8’s early morning show, the station still manages to put out a somewhat decent news product. What the future holds remains to be seen, especially if 8 continues to either fire, or force out their veteran reporters and replace them with people who have no desire to stay in the Rochester market for a long period of time. As for 13, once again the drawing card for them is Don Alhart. But I do believe that 13 has done better in previous books, so you might be seeing some audience slippage there as well.

 

[NewsSleuth]

What about WBGT's ratings? Did they make the book?

 

[oldschooler]

I believe somebody said that 8's morning show went from a 1.4 rating (which gets rounded down to a 1), to a 1.5 (which gets rounded up to a 2). With proper spin, they could say their audience share doubled when, in reality, it still languishes in third, and it gained only a few hundred viewers for this one book only. What about other recent books, in which they got hash marks?
ratings books can go up and down, up and down, often for no apparent reason. First place may drop from first briefly, then bounce back. Third place might move into second for one show, then fall back. It can depend on where the diaries get mailed, how many people return them, if they're filled out correctly. It is such an imperfect system.
How does one explain that 8's 5PM show once came in second, a few years back -- then dropped back to third? Where was that audience it built up to get to second? Did they have another change of heart in three months? Why? A fluke.


As for the morning, 8 has time against it's side: 10 and 13 got the jump on doing morning shows; 10 and 13 have had better network morning shows and thus the legacy and viewer base; they've also kept the same folks on the morning show longer than did 8.

The most difficult thing is to change HABIT. It takes years and years and YEARS to change habit in a conservative market such as Rochester. Sometimes those habits, despite the best effort, never change. People in the business see that 8 might put out a good product, but the average viewer still loves to watch "the white haired guy on channel 13".

> By "Rating" (not share) * Note: Ratings provided by
> Kohoutek.
>
> 6am
>
> 13: 5
> 10: 2
> 8: 2
>
> From Channel 10's perspective being tied with Channel 8's
> early morning show should give Arnie & Company on East
> Avenue some concern. If you take into consideration the
> promotional effort for Channel 10's early morning program,
> add to that last year's game of musical chairs when it came
> to personnel changes at 8, then compare both shows when it
> comes to content and personality, Channel 10 should be way
> ahead of 8 in this time period.
> Over on Humboldt Street these figures give management the
> bragging rights to say “see we told you so" when it comes to
> their decision to make changes to “Wake Up Rochester”.I have
> to admit that I am puzzled by 8’s increase in the ratings.
> Their current early morning program is a disaster. Both the
> hosts are stiff, boring and lack personality.
> As for 13 being number one in the mornings, that’s a no-
> brainer. Using a baseball metaphor, 13 has a better line up
> of players than 10 and especially 8.
> However the criticism that I have about 13’s morning show is
> that there is too many “fillers” IE: dancing with local
> celebrities, along with too much chit-chat and constant
> weather reports. If 13 is going to have that kind of format,
> then get from behind the anchor desk and create a “Today
> Show” type of atmosphere.
>
> 5pm
> 13: 9
> 10: 5
> 8: 3
>
> 6pm
> 13: 12
> 10: 9
> 8: 6
>
> Two words for 13's big audience increase at 6pm: Don Alhart.
>
>
> 11p
> 13: 7
> 10: 5
> 8: 5
>
> Here is another puzzling set of numbers. For 10 to be tied
> with 8 at 11pm is indeed not very good news for 10. At one
> time 10 and 13 battled for first place at both 6 and 11. Now
> it appears that 10 is slipping while 13 remains top dog.(
> But not by much according to these figures)
> This is where I believe 8 benefits from being a CBS network
> affiliate. It is very possible that people are starting to
> buck the trend of switching channels at 11:00 p.m and
> staying with 8. It also doesn’t hurt being associated with
> the number one network. Despite my criticism of 8’s early
> morning show, the station still manages to put out a
> somewhat decent news product. What the future holds remains
> to be seen, especially if 8 continues to either fire, or
> force out their veteran reporters and replace them with
> people who have no desire to stay in the Rochester market
> for a long period of time. As for 13, once again the drawing
> card for them is Don Alhart. But I do believe that 13 has
> done better in previous books, so you might be seeing some
> audience slippage there as well.
>

 

[Kohoutek]

> I believe somebody said that 8's morning show went from a
> 1.4 rating (which gets rounded down to a 1), to a 1.5 (which
> gets rounded up to a 2). With proper spin, they could say
> their audience share doubled when, in reality, it still
> languishes in third,..


Very true, and I'm sure that's how they are spinning it.

What about other recent
> books, in which they got hash marks?
> ratings books can go up and down, up and down, often for no
> apparent reason. First place may drop from first briefly,
> then bounce back. Third place might move into second for one
> show, then fall back. It can depend on where the diaries get
> mailed, how many people return them, if they're filled out
> correctly. It is such an imperfect system.
> How does one explain that 8's 5PM show once came in second,
> a few years back -- then dropped back to third? Where was
> that audience it built up to get to second? Did they have
> another change of heart in three months? Why? A fluke.
>
>
Could be a fluke,..although if you look at the trends of the past FIVE years 8, in particular, has been gaining and 13, in particular, has been falling. To be sure, this has been happening in VERY SMALL increments and VERY SLOWLY....

> As for the morning, 8 has time against it's side: 10 and 13
> got the jump on doing morning shows;

This is simply not true. 8 was the FIRST to put on a 2 hour local morning show in 1999. 13 followed by a few months. So 8 is the one that got the jump. Unfortunately, 10 and 13 got on board with better shows (IMHO) and still offer a much better product.

10 and 13 have had
> better network morning shows and thus the legacy and viewer
> base;

True enough, but I don't think that's an excuse for 8's dismal showing (although they use it as such)

they've also kept the same folks on the morning show
> longer than did 8.
>
True enough

> The most difficult thing is to change HABIT. It takes years
> and years and YEARS to change habit in a conservative
> market such as Rochester. Sometimes those habits, despite
> the best effort, never change. People in the business see
> that 8 might put out a good product, but the average viewer
> still loves to watch "the white haired guy on channel 13".
>
> I couldn't agree with you more.



> > BY "Rating" (not share)
> >
> > 6am
> >
> > 13: 5
> > 10: 2
> > 8: 2
> >
> > 5pm
> > 13: 9
> > 10: 5
> > 8: 3
> >
> > 6pm
> > 13: 12
> > 10: 9
> > 8: 6
> >
> >
> > 11p
> > 13: 7
> > 10: 5
> > 8: 5
>> >
>

 

[Mark_Giardina]

Perception is the key word here. For years Channels 10 and 13 have built their reputations around a few key people, while Channel 8 has experienced constant personnel changes.

As one person correctly wrote, Rochester is a conservative market. TV viewers and listeners to radio in this community to not adhere to changes, compared to other markets.

With regards to the ratings, I agree with your observation that ratings can either spike upwards, or spiral down without any explained reason.

Another personal observation about the ratings is my believe that it is do in large part to statistics showing that fewer people are watching TV news compared to a few years ago.

<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>

 

[happyhappyhapp]

Anyone have the 5am numbers? Or the 5-7 averages?

Sidenote: This is NOT the first 2 rating for Wake Up Rochester. I had that in it's second or third book but never again until now. I doubt you'll see the same results in May. I'm more shocked that 10 has dropped so low!

> By "Rating" (not share) * Note: Ratings provided by
> Kohoutek.
>
> 6am
>
> 13: 5
> 10: 2
> 8: 2
>
> From Channel 10's perspective being tied with Channel 8's
> early morning show should give Arnie & Company on East
> Avenue some concern. If you take into consideration the
> promotional effort for Channel 10's early morning program,
> add to that last year's game of musical chairs when it came
> to personnel changes at 8, then compare both shows when it
> comes to content and personality, Channel 10 should be way
> ahead of 8 in this time period.
> Over on Humboldt Street these figures give management the
> bragging rights to say “see we told you so" when it comes to
> their decision to make changes to “Wake Up Rochester”.I have
> to admit that I am puzzled by 8’s increase in the ratings.
> Their current early morning program is a disaster. Both the
> hosts are stiff, boring and lack personality.
> As for 13 being number one in the mornings, that’s a no-
> brainer. Using a baseball metaphor, 13 has a better line up
> of players than 10 and especially 8.
> However the criticism that I have about 13’s morning show is
> that there is too many “fillers” IE: dancing with local
> celebrities, along with too much chit-chat and constant
> weather reports. If 13 is going to have that kind of format,
> then get from behind the anchor desk and create a “Today
> Show” type of atmosphere.
>
> 5pm
> 13: 9
> 10: 5
> 8: 3
>
> 6pm
> 13: 12
> 10: 9
> 8: 6
>
> Two words for 13's big audience increase at 6pm: Don Alhart.
>
>
> 11p
> 13: 7
> 10: 5
> 8: 5
>
> Here is another puzzling set of numbers. For 10 to be tied
> with 8 at 11pm is indeed not very good news for 10. At one
> time 10 and 13 battled for first place at both 6 and 11. Now
> it appears that 10 is slipping while 13 remains top dog.(
> But not by much according to these figures)
> This is where I believe 8 benefits from being a CBS network
> affiliate. It is very possible that people are starting to
> buck the trend of switching channels at 11:00 p.m and
> staying with 8. It also doesn’t hurt being associated with
> the number one network. Despite my criticism of 8’s early
> morning show, the station still manages to put out a
> somewhat decent news product. What the future holds remains
> to be seen, especially if 8 continues to either fire, or
> force out their veteran reporters and replace them with
> people who have no desire to stay in the Rochester market
> for a long period of time. As for 13, once again the drawing
> card for them is Don Alhart. But I do believe that 13 has
> done better in previous books, so you might be seeing some
> audience slippage there as well.
>

 

[IlDuce]

The Book Has To Be A "Fluke".

> I'm more shocked that 10 has dropped so low!
> > 6am
> >
> > 13: 5
> > 10: 2
> > 8: 2
> >
You're shocked! Think how old Arnie Klinsky must feel. I bet he drove his BMW off the road when he got word about the latest book.
What is more shocking is how that mediocre excuse of a morning program on 8 actually gained viewers. There has to be a “glitch” in this book because there is no way that 10 and 8 share the same rating.
I can understand if WROC’s audience increased during the 6 and 11p.m. newscasts because at least they are (or were until Rachel Barnhart was let go) competitive. 10’s early morning program is far superior than Channel 8’s. And that’s not saying much believe me.