Rock music popularity

[davideduardo]

Locally (Cheyenne, WY), KPAW (classic rock), KAZY (active rock) and KBPI (hard rock) pulls in the ratings. I've been a fan of KPAW and the out of market station KQMT (classic rock) for ages, and they run their stations well, with limited ads.

Based on revenue, KPAW bills more than the next three stations combined. Following them, it is Country, Oldies and another rocker, KIGN and another country station, KRAN, who take 85% of the very small billing in the market where 15 commercial stations take in just $3 million a year.

That low revenue is, in part, why stations have few ads.

Of course, only 40% of radio listening goes to stations that are home to the market.

 

[CassChopper96]

My take on this would be Rock music is embraced mostly by a White audience, hardly any Blacks or Hispanics listen to Rock, with the exception of Mexican Rockers, who do like Rock music. Whereas, Black rhythmic music, including hip hip and Rap is embraced by White, Black, Asian and Hispanic listeners, This makes Rock music enjoyed by a much smaller group, this has been the case since day one, Why is this? does this make any sense?

There are plenty of Hispanics that listen to Rock Music. But i think Hip Hop stations are seeing a much more drastic decline in ratings. Rock is still doing very well in most places

 

[davideduardo]

There are plenty of Hispanics that listen to Rock Music. But i think Hip Hop stations are seeing a much more drastic decline in ratings. Rock is still doing very well in most places

Hip Hop is declining as a radio format because radio can not play the majority of songs that today have lyrics that would cause FCC issues but are fine on streaming sources.

That is a separate issue.

Rock has lost most of its under-35 following. Rock formats that appeal to the older demos continue, but it's not looking good in the younger demos.

And, while there are later generation Hispanics who like rock, among the foreign-born and the first generation, there is little appeal. Yes, there are rock stations in Latin America, but vastly fewer than ever before... and they appeal predominantly to upper income listeners who don't migrate to the US. The big rock station in Buenos Aires which had over a 20 share in 2000 now gets a 4 share. In fact, the only rocker in Puerto Rico, WCAD, was sold recently because it was losing money; it is now a K-Love network station.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Houston has KTBZ doing well.

KTBZ is a complete mishmash, and I hear a lot of people in its target demo that say the station stinks. But it does well because there is absolutely nothing, zip, nada, zilch as far as any other Rock choices in the market, unless you want to listen to beyond burnt to a crisp tunes on the Classic Rock station.

Sometimes things do “well” because there is simply no other choice.

 

[davideduardo]

No thanks. I never again want to hear 90 percent of the songs on Classic Rock formats. It's like hearing the same bad joke every day. Having to fake enthusiasm on the air talking about the same 200 songs was bad enough...

I'm fascinated by peoople who dislike well researched classic hits or classic rock stations claim they only play 200 songs. The fact is, most of them are in the 600 song vicinity and they are playing the music the majority of listeners want to hear.

 

[Cordelia Chase]

Yes, I would say even the newer acts Active Rocker FM 99 in Norfolk plays appeal to older people. For example, Greta Van Fleet and Dirty Honey because they sort of remind people of Led Zeppelin, and Wolfgang Van Halen because folks are curious about the progeny...

And the commercials certainly illustrate that men of a certain age are the target audience. There are plenty of spots for ED products, firms that represent men in divorce cases, sports betting, and since 4/20, a ton of ads about growing we*d at home.

 

[MarkW]

I would have liked to have seen someone give a true Active Rock format a shot in Houston. Once upon a time, it would've been a good format for 106.9 FM there.

The Buzz does well because it has a very wide lane all to itself and features a long lived morning show. It's not a bad station music wise, but the unusual mix of music does create some abrupt segues.

 

[Mediafrog+]

I'm fascinated by peoople who dislike well researched classic hits or classic rock stations claim they only play 200 songs. The fact is, most of them are in the 600 song vicinity and they are playing the music the majority of listeners want to hear.

However it might be somewhat disingenuous to talk about a 600 song playlist without pointing out that only 200 of those tunes might be in heavy rotation, while the remaining 400 rarely, if ever get played. This can lead to the complaints of repetition and burnout.

However a majority of listeners want “same old same old” so the narrow playlists work. But I also suspect that those listeners tend to use radio as “background noise” and aren’t really engaged with the music. The minority of listeners that actually pay attention are more likely to be burnt out by overplayed tunes.

 

[CTListener]

And the commercials certainly illustrate that men of a certain age are the target audience. There are plenty of spots for ED products, firms that represent men in divorce cases, sports betting, and since 4/20, a ton of ads about growing we*d at home.

Not to derail the thread, but I listen to a lot of Massachusetts radio and have never heard a single ad related to marijuana, either retail or growing, on stations you'd think would be attractive to advertisers. I assumed that's because of pot's federal status (still classified as illegal) not being fully superseded by its state status (legalized), but you say a Virginia station is airing ads about growing it at home. Is this common elsewhere and are the Massachusetts (Springfield, mainly) stations I listen to just ultra-cautious?

 

[CTListener]

But I also suspect that those listeners tend to use radio as “background noise” and aren’t really engaged with the music. The minority of listeners that actually pay attention are more likely to be burnt out by overplayed tunes.

Everyone's money is worth the same to the advertisers. What sort of advertising, exactly, would a station attract by appealing to the tiny number of fans of classic rock who can't stand the genre's biggest hits anymore?

 

[davideduardo]

However it might be somewhat disingenuous to talk about a 600 song playlist without pointing out that only 200 of those tunes might be in heavy rotation, while the remaining 400 rarely, if ever get played. This can lead to the complaints of repetition and burnout.

Essentially all formatted stations have tier-base rotations.

Among gold based stations, like classic rock or classic hits you might see a higher rotation category that turns over at the rate of "a day less a daypart". The next might be "a day plus a daypart" and then another at " a day plus two dayparts" and so on.

This kind of system allows songs to stay at least a daypart apart the next time they play, with, for most, a whole day's rest before that different daypart play.

It's not like the top songs get played many more times than others. More likely you'd find some songs playing 10 to 12 times a week, others 7 to 9, then 5 to 6 and so on. The concept is akin to gears in a mechanical watch where each gear moves at a different rate, creating thousands of patterns and music sweeps.

However a majority of listeners want “same old same old” so the narrow playlists work. But I also suspect that those listeners tend to use radio as “background noise” and aren’t really engaged with the music. The minority of listeners that actually pay attention are more likely to be burnt out by overplayed tunes.

Lots of one-on-one "open interview" projects that I have conducted as supervisor or actual interviewer have shown me that when listeners say they want "variety" what they mean is "I want all the songs I like and none of the ones I don't like". It's not about how many songs, but about how good they are to each listener.

 

[davideduardo]

I would have liked to have seen someone give a true Active Rock format a shot in Houston. Once upon a time, it would've been a good format for 106.9 FM there.

The market is now:

17% African American
9% Asian
38% Hispanic

That leaves about 37% non-Hispanic white. The audience for any kind of predominantly white core listener format is shrinking. And with rock becoming nearly irrelevant among most people of any race or ethnicity under about 35, there are not going to be new rock variants in Houston or similar markets.

The Buzz does well because it has a very wide lane all to itself and features a long lived morning show. It's not a bad station music wise, but the unusual mix of music does create some abrupt segues.

The biggest problem is that within the shrinking rock listener base, there is considerable fragmentation within the broader genres. For example, in alternative rock it is hard to find all but a few songs that every alt partisan likes; instead, there are subsets that like some songs, tolerate others and hate still others.

 

[MarkW]

That leaves about 37% non-Hispanic white. The audience for any kind of predominantly white core listener format is shrinking. And with rock becoming nearly irrelevant among most people of any race or ethnicity under about 35, there are not going to be new rock variants in Houston or similar markets.

I agree it would be unwise to attempt such a launch in present day times. Would've worked right after Rock 101 bit the dust and new music product was still strong. (Rock 101 was hemmed in by the Buzz on one side and 93.7 The Arrow on the other side.)

 

[TheBigA]

The minority of listeners that actually pay attention are more likely to be burnt out by overplayed tunes.

Those folks are likely already subscribing to streaming services and paying for music to support the artists they love.

If you're passionate about something, you should pay and support it. Not just take whatever is free.

 

[landtuna]

I don't understand why anyone in this day and age listens to radio for music. It is so easy to build your own music library with your personal favorites, all genres included, than hoping the radio station will play a favorite. And since most of the "old time personalities" are now long gone there is nothing else to listen to except endless commercials.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't understand why anyone in this day and age listens to radio for music.

Because music isn't very important for a large number of people. They'd gladly listen to whatever is free.

But if music is important, people should be willing to pay for it.

Same with food. You can easily cook your own food. Maybe even make a hobby out of it. Or go to the drive through.

 

[boombox4]

Because music isn't very important for a large number of people. They'd gladly listen to whatever is free.

But if music is important, people should be willing to pay for it.

People have always paid for music, both live and recorded -- from the songbooks of the 1800s to 45s, LPs, cassettes and CDs.

It appears they're less apt to want to pay for it since the internet became a music medium around the turn of the century, when the MP3 became more accepted, though, and the file sharing debacle.

One reason rock music is fading is because the instruments used to make it are fading in popularity.

Playing instruments in general has also dropped in popularity. Even symphony orchestras have seen better days, being more and more a haven for rich people who comprise the people who can afford to go to the concerts or buy/rent the instruments.

With hip-hop, pop and even much of modern country you don't really need an actual instrument -- a computer with a decent DAW and a library of various music samples, loops and sounds will provide a backtrack for your rap or singing -- any instrument is only added in here and there for atmosphere, like the acoustic guitars in modern country songs.

I'm not alone in this assessment, some popular producers who also have YT channels think much the same way.

Rock will always be around -- blues and jazz are still around, they're just not radio staples anymore. There still are some guitar and drum sales, with young people adding to the next crop of them, it's just that they're vastly outnumbered by the hip-hop crowd, and the genres that use guitars and drums are diminishing.

There are still bluegrass bands all over the US. You just don't hear them on most radio stations. Barring the rise of some artist that strikes a chord with enough people, rock is headed the same way.

 

[CTListener]

With hip-hop, pop and even much of modern country you don't really need an actual instrument -- a computer with a decent DAW and a library of various music samples, loops and sounds will provide a backtrack for your rap or singing -- any instrument is only added in here and there for atmosphere, like the acoustic guitars in modern country songs.

Drum programming is used on some country recordings, but by and large, all the other instruments in the mix are genuine, at least if the credits are to be believed, and they often not only include guitars but banjos, mandolins and fiddles.

 

[Cordelia Chase]

Not to derail the thread, but I listen to a lot of Massachusetts radio and have never heard a single ad related to marijuana, either retail or growing, on stations you'd think would be attractive to advertisers. I assumed that's because of pot's federal status (still classified as illegal) not being fully superseded by its state status (legalized), but you say a Virginia station is airing ads about growing it at home. Is this common elsewhere and are the Massachusetts (Springfield, mainly) stations I listen to just ultra-cautious?

This absolutely is a thing in the Hampton Roads market! Prior to 4/20 there were ads for smoke/vape shops that sold glass and CBD oil. Now there are commercials for businesses that sell kits so that you can have your first "crop" in as little as 90 days! And to make it even more convincing, the spot has a reggae-like music bed!

 

[TheBigA]

One reason rock music is fading is because the instruments used to make it are fading in popularity.

I'm not sure this has anything to do with instruments. The core of what made rock appeal to a generation was the message in the music and the lifestyle of the musicians that resonated with a mass audience.