Rock Radio Question

[Least]

But both formats are under the marquee of "rock" and rock has been on a decline for the last 20 to 25 years among demos under age 35 to 40.

Alt is highly fragmented. There are subsets within the Alt banner. AAA is eclectic, and appeals today to mostly 55 and over.

We are not in a rock era.

I'm not saying we are, but modern Alternative is far from Rock in sound. Alt-Rock is a sub-section of Alternative. Could that be because of the dominance of Alt-Rock for the past few decades?

As for Big, my personal take is that it's a blend of big hits from what was WAAF, New 97.7, and a sprinkle of what usually makes up Jack-FM in other markets. On my drive home today, it jumped from Weezer to Tone Loc. Only station where I've heard Metallica's cover of Turn the Page and Madonna in the same half hour. I actually use Big as my go to when I'm driving with my family, as we never agree. My wife and kids want Kiss 108, where I prefer either WZLX or WGIR.

 

[MarkW]

You've got good taste in music, Least. 🙂

 

[TheBigA]

Notice how WROR and WZLX don't play a heavy rotation of 90s Alt-Rock, like WAAF did prior to being sold to EMF.

Absolutely. But WBOS did. How did that turn out?

 

[CTListener]

I should clarify that I didn't mean that particular station. I meant a company replicating it here in Boston. Different Markets, also. I have a strange feeling that an R&B/Hip-Hop hybrid wouldn't be as prominent on the NH/VT boarder either. I was referring to the particular playlist.

So was I. Your suggestion was that the WFRD playlist ought to be given a shot in Boston by one of the radio "big boys" and I answered that I couldn't see that happening since WFRD was having no success with it in the Upper Valley. I don't know what's going to happen to Rock 99, probably will get sold to some Godcaster.

 

[CTListener]

I hate to break it to you, but some of those people listen to classic rock. In Boston WZLX and WROR are among the most listened to stations in the 18-34 group. In some cities, classic rock is #1 18-34. I'm not kidding. Young people have great respect for older music, even if they didn't grow up with it.

But it has to be the right kind of old music. '70s rock: Yes!!! '70s pop and soul: That's Dad's (or Granddad's) music!!! Yuck!!!

 

[Retro]

Yet in this market, that was modern Rock stations until WAAF was sold. It was a heavy reliance on the 90s. Insiders on this board stated plenty of times "that's what tests well;" much to my belief that it was only hurting these stations.

Currently, 18 to 21 year olds weren't even born in the 90s, and up to 25 year olds were born in 1996. That puts them at three or four years old when we entered 2000. Even if they have had fond memories of a childhood song, we then need to account for the different music styles that existed back then. In other words, perhaps songs from Nevermind now aged out of what we refer to as "modern rock."

Getting to your post, although I liked Alt Rock in it's time, and still like a handful of songs from that era, I find myself disconnected from a "modern rock station" that plays Smells Like Teen Spirit, Under the Bridge, and Santeria many times in it's rotation. I also hold the same view for stations that claim to be "modern rock," yet have Crazy Train, Welcome to the Jungle, and anything by Zepplin playing many times a day. All songs I like, but when I go to the modern rock station, I want to hear new music (find new songs and new bands). I'm fine with rock hits from the last decade, but I prefer to leave classic rock for the classic rock stations. To me, that's how one begins to attract and grow a young audience. I find that to be part of what made modern country become successful, they started to rely on current bands and modern songs.

For the record, WAAF was simply a rock station, pure and simple. Recently, one of the music subscription services offered me a playlist of 90s alternative music, playing songs that very mostly did not break outside of the format. It very much sounded college bleh stoner type music. It very much reminded me just how horrible that music was!

And both WBCN and WFNX was indulging on what was being spoon-fed from the labels too. We all know what ended up happening with both those stations, even if it was one decade later.

 

[Least]

Absolutely. But WBOS did. How did that turn out?

Which goes to my point, the issue is the over reliance on 90s alt-rock as "modern rock" on stations playlist. Go back and read what I originally stated.

 

[Least]

So was I. Your suggestion was that the WFRD playlist ought to be given a shot in Boston by one of the radio "big boys" and I answered that I couldn't see that happening since WFRD was having no success with it in the Upper Valley. I don't know what's going to happen to Rock 99, probably will get sold to some Godcaster.

I said it was my preference, my exact words. I didn't say it was what I say they should do.

 

[Least]

For the record, WAAF was simply a rock station, pure and simple. Recently, one of the music subscription services offered me a playlist of 90s alternative music, playing songs that very mostly did not break outside of the format. It very much sounded college bleh stoner type music. It very much reminded me just how horrible that music was!

And both WBCN and WFNX was indulging on what was being spoon-fed from the labels too. We all know what ended up happening with both those stations, even if it was one decade later.

They were starting to brand themselves as the station that played new rock. The HD-2 version now still does. Only that the HD-2 version does play more than WAAF (in it's original analog and HD-1 incarnation) did. The grand mystery still is what was going to be the relaunched WAAF of March 2, 2020; which never happened. They stated they were aiming to go in a direction that took chances.

WFNX ran out of money in a format that was in an identity crisis. It's spiritual successor Indie 617 still exists, as an online platform.

WBCN had two things wrong, an over-reliance on the 90s (despite it being 2009), and as you mentioned pandering to the labels. Hence why we heard Blink-182, Sum 41, Pearl Jam, Sublime, then a song by two flavors of the week (ie. Silver Sun Pickup).

In the end, being a "modern rock" station should mean playing modern, not classic. Leave classic rock to the stations formatted for it.

 

[nowradioguy]

I hate to break it to you, but some of those people listen to classic rock. In Boston WZLX and WROR are among the most listened to stations in the 18-34 group. In some cities, classic rock is #1 18-34. I'm not kidding. Young people have great respect for older music, even if they didn't grow up with it.

I have three grandsons aged 7 through 13 who listen to, and like, classic rock. On vinyl, no less.

 

[inorm99]

I'm not saying we are, but modern Alternative is far from Rock in sound. Alt-Rock is a sub-section of Alternative. Could that be because of the dominance of Alt-Rock for the past few decades?

As for Big, my personal take is that it's a blend of big hits from what was WAAF, New 97.7, and a sprinkle of what usually makes up Jack-FM in other markets. On my drive home today, it jumped from Weezer to Tone Loc. Only station where I've heard Metallica's cover of Turn the Page and Madonna in the same half hour. I actually use Big as my go to when I'm driving with my family, as we never agree. My wife and kids want Kiss 108, where I prefer either WZLX or

 

[inorm99]

I'm not saying we are, but modern Alternative is far from Rock in sound. Alt-Rock is a sub-section of Alternative. Could that be because of the dominance of Alt-Rock for the past few decades?

As for Big, my personal take is that it's a blend of big hits from what was WAAF, New 97.7, and a sprinkle of what usually makes up Jack-FM in other markets. On my drive home today, it jumped from Weezer to Tone Loc. Only station where I've heard Metallica's cover of Turn the Page and Madonna in the same half hour. I actually use Big as my go to when I'm driving with my family, as we never agree. My wife and kids want Kiss 108, where I prefer either WZLX or WGIR.

I'm not saying we are, but modern Alternative is far from Rock in sound. Alt-Rock is a sub-section of Alternative. Could that be because of the dominance of Alt-Rock for the past few decades?

As for Big, my personal take is that it's a blend of big hits from what was WAAF, New 97.7, and a sprinkle of what usually makes up Jack-FM in other markets. On my drive home today, it jumped from Weezer to Tone Loc. Only station where I've heard Metallica's cover of Turn the Page and Madonna in the same half hour. I actually use Big as my go to when I'm driving with my family, as we never agree. My wife and kids want Kiss 108, where I prefer either WZLX or WGIR.

It's easy to do when you have jukebox in automation.
There's a live freeform station in Santa Cruz, CA. KPIG that had a nightly feature called Frank and Frank where they would play Zappa and Sinatra back.to back.
Why be normal?

 

[TheBigA]

KPIG that had a nightly feature called Frank and Frank where they would play Zappa and Sinatra back.to back.

KPIG is a unique station that markets itself very well. They charge people to hear their stream and I'm told they have more listeners on the stream than from their local signal. BTW Zappa was a huge fan of Sinatra's, so the two go well together.

 

[davideduardo]

It's easy to do when you have jukebox in automation.
There's a live freeform station in Santa Cruz, CA. KPIG that had a nightly feature called Frank and Frank where they would play Zappa and Sinatra back.to back.
Why be normal?

KPIG ranks 13th in revenue in Monterrey-Salinas where there are only 13 total stations ranked as "Viable". It has around a 1 share in 25-54 while the #1 station has nearly a 9 share. They cume just over 30 thousand in a market of nearly 750,000; do the math.

And stations don't have a "jukebox in automation". Music is not done like an old iPad on shuffle. Hours a day are spent preparing the music log and looking at each song and segue and making manual changes to the already very precise computer sort which is based on many days of work to make the sound "just right".

In other words, most "normal" people do not want Zappa and Sinatra back to back. It sounds different, antiestablishment and even a bit musically woke. But nearly nobody actually wants to hear it. It's sort of like "Ben and Jerry's Popeye's Punch Ice Cream" which turns out to be spinach & garlic flavored: sounds clever and different, tastes terrible.

 

[davideduardo]

BTW Zappa was a huge fan of Sinatra's, so the two go well together.

Interesting factoid I did not know about... but I still don't want to hear them back to back.

 

[chrocket87]

KPIG ranks 13th in revenue in Monterrey-Salinas where there are only 13 total stations ranked as "Viable". It has around a 1 share in 25-54 while the #1 station has nearly a 9 share. They cume just over 30 thousand in a market of nearly 750,000; do the math.

And stations don't have a "jukebox in automation". Music is not done like an old iPad on shuffle. Hours a day are spent preparing the music log and looking at each song and segue and making manual changes to the already very precise computer sort which is based on many days of work to make the sound "just right".

In other words, most "normal" people do not want Zappa and Sinatra back to back. It sounds different, antiestablishment and even a bit musically woke. But nearly nobody actually wants to hear it. It's sort of like "Ben and Jerry's Popeye's Punch Ice Cream" which turns out to be spinach & garlic flavored: sounds clever and different, tastes terrible.

I love spinach and garlic. I love ice cream. Those three things together almost made me vomit just imagining it.

 

[macattack]

Which goes to my point, the issue is the over reliance on 90s alt-rock as "modern rock" on stations playlist. Go back and read what I originally stated.

I think part of the issue is that many 00's Alternative hits, easily 75% of them, crossed over from the Active Rock format. Alt stations are terrified to play those songs because they clash violently with the indie and pop music that took over in the 10's. Unless it's a station like KPNT, WKZQ, and WGHL that have Active leans and have no fear of said hits, anyway. This is why you hear the same old 90's hits and a random "Mr. Brightside" play as 00's lip service from so many Alternatives.

Weirdly enough Audacy is pushing a Bring Me The Horizon song this week, the first time they've pushed a heavy song as the corporate-wide Pick of the Week. 8 Mainstream Rock #1s made the Billboard Alternative Airplay chart this year. Maybe something is changing.

 

[Retro]

I think part of the issue is that many 00's Alternative hits, easily 75% of them, crossed over from the Active Rock format. Alt stations are terrified to play those songs because they clash violently with the indie and pop music that took over in the 10's. Unless it's a station like KPNT, WKZQ, and WGHL that have Active leans and have no fear of said hits, anyway. This is why you hear the same old 90's hits and a random "Mr. Brightside" play as 00's lip service from so many Alternatives.

Weirdly enough Audacy is pushing a Bring Me The Horizon song this week, the first time they've pushed a heavy song as the corporate-wide Pick of the Week. 8 Mainstream Rock #1s made the Billboard Alternative Airplay chart this year. Maybe something is changing.

Now, it might be only me, however, when someone was talking about alternative music just within the past couple of years, my thought was "alternative still exists?"

Then it was mentioned that acts such as Florence & The Machine, and Of Monsters And Men fit into that genre.