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"Rock & Roll Dead"? No Freakin' Way!

In the Philadelphia "Inquirer" today is this odious screed from a Thane Tierney, an alleged record-label exec in LaLaLand. Perhaps he wants a fully HipHopped/Rapped/Urbanized/Countrified radio landscape, but, many of us who enjoy rock and its various permutations emphatically do NOT!

Here, in it's vile entirety, is his blasphemy. His e-mail address is at the bottom. I encourage any of you who disagree with his conclusions to make your views and opinions known to him PERSONALLY...as I have...after reading this tripe posted below.

I'd be interested to know what groups/individuals/music genres are signed to Mr. Tierney's label; anyone want to bet it's Rap/HipHop/Urban?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Rock-and-roll is dead: Let it be"

by Thane Tierney, a record-label executive living in Los Angeles:


Here's an excellent way to celebrate rock-and-roll's 50th birthday: Pull the plug and give it the proper burial it deserves.

Rock has been in a persistent vegetative state for more than a decade, and it shows no signs of coming back. Ever.

Want evidence? Look at the top-15-grossing pop (very broadly defined) tours from last year. The top five were Prince, Celine Dion, Madonna, Metallica and Bette Midler, all of whom have been recording in excess of 20 years. Ditto all the rockers in the next 10 (Elton John, Rod Stewart, Van Halen, Jimmy Buffett, et al), with the exception of Dave Matthews, who has been around a mere dozen years. (Just for reference, a dozen years is the span of time between Elvis Presley's "Heartbreak Hotel" and the Beatles' "Hey Jude.")

Look at the top-albums chart. Three rock records in the Top 20. Three. That's only three more than you have, and you don't make records.

Cue the howls of protest.

"If only your harebrained correspondent knew about (insert band name here), he'd play a different tune."

"I just got the new album by (insert band name here), and it's the best thing since (insert classic rock-band name here)."

"That moron doesn't know anything about real rock. Rock lives!"

Uh huh. So does Elvis.

As long as there's a Disneyland, there will be barbershop quartets. As long as there are cruise ships, there will be swing bands. As long as there are electric guitars, there will be rockers. So what?

To its credit, rock lived a good long life. Like an old bluesman, though, it seems to have lost its birth certificate. Various reports have it born in 1951, when Jackie Brenston recorded "Rocket 88," or 1949, when Roy Brown cut "Good Rockin' Tonight." Its birth date is most commonly given as 1955, the year when Bill Haley & The Comets' "Rock Around the Clock" hit No. 1.

In its adolescence, rock not only articulated the angst of a disaffected youth, it also shaped language, style, clothing and politics. It sought to raise consciousness, from Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth" to John Lennon's "Imagine." Even apolitical Elvis got into the spirit with "In the Ghetto." Rock abdicated its primacy in those roles to hip-hop and rap years ago, and rock's audience largely abandoned it; just ask any record company for the figures.

Endless recycling, not only of riffs but of the music itself, sapped rock of its vitality. Time was, oldies were dragged out of retirement solely on holidays for the inevitable Top 100 Countdown of Your All-Time Favorites. No longer. Fleetwood Mac's "Rhiannon," Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama," and Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" have all been in continuous rotation on radio for more than 30 years, especially on networks such as Clear Channel and Infinity Broadcasting. Had this been the case in the '60s, we would have grown up listening to golden oldies by the likes of Fred Waring and His Pennsylvanians, the Ink Spots, and the Paul Whiteman Orchestra.

Historically speaking, rock had a great run. Dixieland flourished for about 30 years; big-band swing lasted about half that long. As those styles ran out of gas, their most talented practitioners retired or led the charge to the next big sound. Rock stars, however, seem locked into the same old tired groove.

When are these guys going to hang up their rock-and-roll shoes anyway? Eric Clapton is 60. Mick Jagger is 62. Paul McCartney is 63. Ringo Starr is 65. Chuck Berry is 79. Anybody who says any of them is just as good now as he or she was then either wasn't there, or has been huffing glue for the last 40 years.

I can't blame rock fans for being stuck in the denial phase of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross' five stages of grief. But it's time to move on, before rock's carcass begins stinkin' up the joint.

Sure, filling out rock's death certificate is problematic. It's as hard to attach a specific date to its demise as it was to affix one to its birth. Some would place it at disco's ascendancy in the late '70s; others would say punk's arrival spelled the death knell for substance, replacing it with fashion.

Personally, I would point to 1992, when Eric Clapton's Unplugged album turned rock's most eloquent cri de coeur, "Layla," into a lounge-lizard anthem. It might not have been the actual agent of rock's death, but it was a potent indicator: The soul of rock's greatest living guitarist had been snatched by Bill Murray.

So let's light the birthday candles one last time, drag out the family album(s) and tell each other the stories we've heard endlessly for the last half-century. Then blow the candles out... and leave them out.

Roll over Beethoven, and tell Bruce Springsteen the news.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact Thane Tierney at [email protected].


PS: As of August, 2003, a "Google" search produced this little posting from an unemployed Thane Tierney:

Cheers,
> Thane
>
> P.S. For Dave & Barry's benefit: I'm Thane Tierney, currently unemployed
> --er, consulting-- record industry vet (WB, Enigma, Rhino, Hannibal,
> Rykodisc, WEA) who has produced greatest hits packages by both Zachary
> Richard and Gordon Lightfoot, and who has contributed liner notes to dozens
> of projects.


A loser in the industry who trashes the very people who provided his income? How hypocritical!
 
I don't think that rock and roll is dead.. Look at all the small, local, independent bands that are still playing it! I think the problem with rock and roll is that the record big-wigs want a quick buck. Rock products take time to develop, ya know. Rap and hip-hop artists can cut a song that sounds like everyone else in 5 minutes, it can chart in a year and then boom they're out on their a*ses because some new young star has come along. Rock isn't like that. I don't see rock as being dead, but I do see it going through a major shift. Besides, Rock is due for a come-back since music goes in cycles.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> I don't think that rock and roll is dead.. Look at all the
> small, local, independent bands that are still playing it!
> I think the problem with rock and roll is that the record
> big-wigs want a quick buck. Rock products take time to
> develop, ya know. Rap and hip-hop artists can cut a song
> that sounds like everyone else in 5 minutes, it can chart in
> a year and then boom they're out on their a*ses because some
> new young star has come along. Rock isn't like that. I
> don't see rock as being dead, but I do see it going through
> a major shift. Besides, Rock is due for a come-back since
> music goes in cycles.
>
> -A
>

Thank you! Well-spoken! I couldn't agree more.
 
> > P.S. For Dave & Barry's benefit: I'm Thane Tierney,
> currently unemployed
> > --er, consulting-- record industry vet (WB, Enigma,
> Rhino, Hannibal,
> > Rykodisc, WEA) who has produced greatest hits packages by
> both Zachary
> > Richard and Gordon Lightfoot, and who has contributed
> liner notes to dozens
> > of projects.
>
>
> A loser in the industry who trashes the very people who
> provided his income? How hypocritical!

I agree, viewed in that perspective, it seems very hypocritical.

Of course, he probably thinks he has "seen the light".
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> I don't think that rock and roll is dead.. Look at all the
> small, local, independent bands that are still playing it!
> I think the problem with rock and roll is that the record
> big-wigs want a quick buck. Rock products take time to
> develop, ya know. Rap and hip-hop artists can cut a song
> that sounds like everyone else in 5 minutes, it can chart in
> a year and then boom they're out on their a*ses because some
> new young star has come along. Rock isn't like that. I
> don't see rock as being dead, but I do see it going through
> a major shift. Besides, Rock is due for a come-back since
> music goes in cycles.
>
> -A
>


I think (and hope) you are right!

I am off to turn up the low end a little more on our Hip Hop station....... ;-)
 
There's alot (and I mean ALOT) of inconsistancies, and well nigh contradictions, with this Tierney chap's whole argument.

He lists the Top POP tours; perhaps if he listed the TOP TOURS, we might have a better read, even if rock acts aren't included. Of course there's no rock bands in the POP TOURS categories--because, surprisingly, these artists are, well, POP! Hey Thane, how about you separate out some ROCK tours, while you're selecting your evidence there, jackass.

And his whole argument seems to be directed, not at rock as a genre, but to what he perceives as the too-long-hangers-on of the classic rock acts he lists like McCartney, Clapton, Jagger, and, absurdly, Chuck Berry (when did he last perform?)

NOWHERE in his screed does this guy list any new rock artists. Most recent are Dave Matthews at 12 years or so (choose yourself whether he is rock--I say no); next recent is Prince, at 23 years or so. Who's missing--Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Franz Ferdinand, Oasis, Blink 182, etc. These are all rock artists, successful, and responsible in their own ways for a resurgence of rock in the early 90s and the early 2000s as well. The most recent one wasn't as successful as grunge because of the next paragraph.

Also, this guy seems to strain to keep from talking about the lack of rock on the radio, which surprisingly, may be attributable to payola by recording labels like those for which he used to work, to get rap-hip hop artists on. Are we seriously left to believe that if radio airplay had been based on merit and not "brown bags" or envelopes delivered by labels or "independent promoters" that the likes of [insert single-named hip-hop artist here] wouuld have triumphed so definitively over rock bands? I doubt so. Something nefarious was at play, and the result was cheap and pre-fabbed hop over normal rock.

Tierney also mentions this little tid bit of sublimely ridiculous absurdity:
"Endless recycling, not only of riffs but of the music itself, sapped rock of its vitality." It is no doubt true that some classic rock acts have become parodies of themselves. But new rock acts ripping off others (leave Oasis out for the moment)?

What then is his response to the success of numerous hip-hop artists who DO practice "endless recycling, not only of riffs..." Hell, they USE THE OLD STUFF VERBATIM and call it new--and theirs.

One last point: this Tierney doofus's self-professed acumen of all things rock comes from his experience having "produced greatest hits packages by both Zachary Richard [who?] and Gordon Lightfoot". THERE'S rock credentials for ya. (Mind you, I love Gord, and am seeing him live the 20th of this month, but he he isn't rock.)

I thinkw e should accept this for what it is--some out of work promoter who got shafted and how thinks his problems are all the fault of bad rock music, and not the fact that he can't sell anymore.
 
> > I don't think that rock and roll is dead.. Look at all the
>
> > small, local, independent bands that are still playing it!
>

As Bill Clinton aptly said "it depends on the definition of rock'n'roll".
 
> There's alot (and I mean ALOT) of inconsistancies, and well
> nigh contradictions, with this Tierney chap's whole
> argument.
>
> He lists the Top POP tours; perhaps if he listed the TOP
> TOURS, we might have a better read, even if rock acts aren't
> included. Of course there's no rock bands in the POP TOURS
> categories--because, surprisingly, these artists are, well,
> POP! Hey Thane, how about you separate out some ROCK tours,
> while you're selecting your evidence there, jackass.
>
> And his whole argument seems to be directed, not at rock as
> a genre, but to what he perceives as the too-long-hangers-on
> of the classic rock acts he lists like McCartney, Clapton,
> Jagger, and, absurdly, Chuck Berry (when did he last
> perform?)
>
> NOWHERE in his screed does this guy list any new rock
> artists. Most recent are Dave Matthews at 12 years or so
> (choose yourself whether he is rock--I say no); next recent
> is Prince, at 23 years or so. Who's missing--Nirvana, Pearl
> Jam, Franz Ferdinand, Oasis, Blink 182, etc. These are all
> rock artists, successful, and responsible in their own ways
> for a resurgence of rock in the early 90s and the early
> 2000s as well. The most recent one wasn't as successful as
> grunge because of the next paragraph.
>
> Also, this guy seems to strain to keep from talking about
> the lack of rock on the radio, which surprisingly, may be
> attributable to payola by recording labels like those for
> which he used to work, to get rap-hip hop artists on. Are
> we seriously left to believe that if radio airplay had been
> based on merit and not "brown bags" or envelopes delivered
> by labels or "independent promoters" that the likes of
> [insert single-named hip-hop artist here] wouuld have
> triumphed so definitively over rock bands? I doubt so.
> Something nefarious was at play, and the result was cheap
> and pre-fabbed hop over normal rock.
>
> Tierney also mentions this little tid bit of sublimely
> ridiculous absurdity:
> "Endless recycling, not only of riffs but of the music
> itself, sapped rock of its vitality." It is no doubt true
> that some classic rock acts have become parodies of
> themselves. But new rock acts ripping off others (leave
> Oasis out for the moment)?
>
> What then is his response to the success of numerous hip-hop
> artists who DO practice "endless recycling, not only of
> riffs..." Hell, they USE THE OLD STUFF VERBATIM and call it
> new--and theirs.
>
> One last point: this Tierney doofus's self-professed acumen
> of all things rock comes from his experience having
> "produced greatest hits packages by both Zachary Richard
> [who?] and Gordon Lightfoot". THERE'S rock credentials for
> ya. (Mind you, I love Gord, and am seeing him live the 20th
> of this month, but he he isn't rock.)
>
> I thinkw e should accept this for what it is--some out of
> work promoter who got shafted and how thinks his problems
> are all the fault of bad rock music, and not the fact that
> he can't sell anymore.
>
David Eduardo and KM Richards could not have said it any better than this! Amen, Johnny Morgan!
 
> I think (and hope) you are right!
>
> I am off to turn up the low end a little more on our Hip Hop
> station....... ;-)

Ugh... You mean the rap station that during my junior year @ MU used to wake me up at 5:30am because the people upstairs put it on as loudly as they possibly could while they were in the shower?

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> > I think (and hope) you are right!
> >
> > I am off to turn up the low end a little more on our Hip
> Hop
> > station....... ;-)
>
> Ugh... You mean the rap station that during my junior year @
> MU used to wake me up at 5:30am because the people upstairs
> put it on as loudly as they possibly could while they were
> in the shower?
>
> -A
>


That would be it! :-D
 
"Rock & Roll Dead"

Yech. I felt violated just reading it.

Loser. He can do his "yo yo yo mama" gangsta rap thing if he likes but ROCK & ROLL is the one music genre that has NEVER died- it has been around for 50 years and music always, ALWAYS comes back to rock & roll after it's various fads over the years.

>
> "Rock-and-roll is dead: Let it be"
>
> by Thane Tierney, a record-label executive living in Los Angeles:
>
>
> Here's an excellent way to celebrate rock-and-roll's 50th
> birthday: Pull the plug and give it the proper burial it
> deserves.
 
Rock N Roll. A dissenting opinion.

At the risk to my life and limb (okay, at the risk of some mild flaming) allow me to pronounce my lack of distress at Monsieur Tierney's remarks.

As a long-time rocker, I myself have become bemused by the continued presence if not dominance of the long-in-the-tooth rockers Mick Jagger, Elton John, Rod Stewart et al.

"Death" may be an inadequate metaphor for what is in fact a lack of commercial success, but so what? I remember when we LOVED rock artists who didn't make hits. When they had hits, they were called "sellouts".

Music genres don't necessarily die. But they do have their heydays and Rock N Roll's heyday probably IS over. [ducking and running for cover]

So what? If your enjoyment of it depends on the approval of a record label, what does that say about the state of rock n roll?

It's particularly painful to hear rock partisans denigrate hip-hop. It is a reminder that instead of bucking the establishment's music as we did back in the day, we ARE the establishment and rock n roll is our music.<P ID="signature">______________

The Salty Dog</P>
 
I'll know when Rock 'n' Roll is dead:

1. When it becomes a niche format on public radio, and the public stations are running pledge drives so that we can continue to hear those great rock 'n' roll tunes we love, in the same way we do for classical music today.

2. When commercial radio won't play rock 'n' roll any more, in the same way they don't play classical music anymore.

Mark.
 
I wouldn't say rock is "dead". But compared to how huge it was when I was growing up in the 1970s, current rock product has been reduced to niche status.



In the Philadelphia "Inquirer" today is this odious screed
> from a Thane Tierney, an alleged record-label exec in
> LaLaLand. Perhaps he wants a fully
> HipHopped/Rapped/Urbanized/Countrified radio landscape, but,
> many of us who enjoy rock and its various permutations
> emphatically do NOT!
>
> Here, in it's vile entirety, is his blasphemy. His e-mail
> address is at the bottom. I encourage any of you who
> disagree with his conclusions to make your views and
> opinions known to him PERSONALLY...as I have...after reading
> this tripe posted below.
>
> I'd be interested to know what groups/individuals/music
> genres are signed to Mr. Tierney's label; anyone want to bet
> it's Rap/HipHop/Urban?
>
--------------------> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Rock-and-roll is dead: Let it be"
>
> by Thane Tierney, a record-label executive living in Los
> Angeles:
>
>
> Here's an excellent way to celebrate rock-and-roll's 50th
> birthday: Pull the plug and give it the proper burial it
> deserves.
>
> Rock has been in a persistent vegetative state for more than
> a decade, and it shows no signs of coming back. Ever.
>
> Want evidence? Look at the top-15-grossing pop (very broadly
> defined) tours from last year. The top five were Prince,
> Celine Dion, Madonna, Metallica and Bette Midler, all of
> whom have been recording in excess of 20 years. Ditto all
> the rockers in the next 10 (Elton John, Rod Stewart, Van
> Halen, Jimmy Buffett, et al), with the exception of Dave
> Matthews, who has been around a mere dozen years. (Just for
> reference, a dozen years is the span of time between Elvis
> Presley's "Heartbreak Hotel" and the Beatles' "Hey Jude.")
>
> Look at the top-albums chart. Three rock records in the Top
> 20. Three. That's only three more than you have, and you
> don't make records.
>
> Cue the howls of protest.
>
> "If only your harebrained correspondent knew about (insert
> band name here), he'd play a different tune."
>
> "I just got the new album by (insert band name here), and
> it's the best thing since (insert classic rock-band name
> here)."
>
> "That moron doesn't know anything about real rock. Rock
> lives!"
>
> Uh huh. So does Elvis.
>
> As long as there's a Disneyland, there will be barbershop
> quartets. As long as there are cruise ships, there will be
> swing bands. As long as there are electric guitars, there
> will be rockers. So what?
>
> To its credit, rock lived a good long life. Like an old
> bluesman, though, it seems to have lost its birth
> certificate. Various reports have it born in 1951, when
> Jackie Brenston recorded "Rocket 88," or 1949, when Roy
> Brown cut "Good Rockin' Tonight." Its birth date is most
> commonly given as 1955, the year when Bill Haley & The
> Comets' "Rock Around the Clock" hit No. 1.
>
> In its adolescence, rock not only articulated the angst of a
> disaffected youth, it also shaped language, style, clothing
> and politics. It sought to raise consciousness, from Buffalo
> Springfield's "For What It's Worth" to John Lennon's
> "Imagine." Even apolitical Elvis got into the spirit with
> "In the Ghetto." Rock abdicated its primacy in those roles
> to hip-hop and rap years ago, and rock's audience largely
> abandoned it; just ask any record company for the figures.
>
> Endless recycling, not only of riffs but of the music
> itself, sapped rock of its vitality. Time was, oldies were
> dragged out of retirement solely on holidays for the
> inevitable Top 100 Countdown of Your All-Time Favorites. No
> longer. Fleetwood Mac's "Rhiannon," Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet
> Home Alabama," and Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" have
> all been in continuous rotation on radio for more than 30
> years, especially on networks such as Clear Channel and
> Infinity Broadcasting. Had this been the case in the '60s,
> we would have grown up listening to golden oldies by the
> likes of Fred Waring and His Pennsylvanians, the Ink Spots,
> and the Paul Whiteman Orchestra.
>
> Historically speaking, rock had a great run. Dixieland
> flourished for about 30 years; big-band swing lasted about
> half that long. As those styles ran out of gas, their most
> talented practitioners retired or led the charge to the next
> big sound. Rock stars, however, seem locked into the same
> old tired groove.
>
> When are these guys going to hang up their rock-and-roll
> shoes anyway? Eric Clapton is 60. Mick Jagger is 62. Paul
> McCartney is 63. Ringo Starr is 65. Chuck Berry is 79.
> Anybody who says any of them is just as good now as he or
> she was then either wasn't there, or has been huffing glue
> for the last 40 years.
>
> I can't blame rock fans for being stuck in the denial phase
> of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross' five stages of grief. But it's
> time to move on, before rock's carcass begins stinkin' up
> the joint.
>
> Sure, filling out rock's death certificate is problematic.
> It's as hard to attach a specific date to its demise as it
> was to affix one to its birth. Some would place it at
> disco's ascendancy in the late '70s; others would say punk's
> arrival spelled the death knell for substance, replacing it
> with fashion.
>
> Personally, I would point to 1992, when Eric Clapton's
> Unplugged album turned rock's most eloquent cri de coeur,
> "Layla," into a lounge-lizard anthem. It might not have been
> the actual agent of rock's death, but it was a potent
> indicator: The soul of rock's greatest living guitarist had
> been snatched by Bill Murray.
>
> So let's light the birthday candles one last time, drag out
> the family album(s) and tell each other the stories we've
> heard endlessly for the last half-century. Then blow the
> candles out... and leave them out.
>
> Roll over Beethoven, and tell Bruce Springsteen the news.
>
>
--------------------> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Contact Thane Tierney at [email protected].
>
>
> PS: As of August, 2003, a "Google" search produced this
> little posting from an unemployed Thane Tierney:
>
> Cheers,
> > Thane
> >
> > P.S. For Dave & Barry's benefit: I'm Thane Tierney,
> currently unemployed
> > --er, consulting-- record industry vet (WB, Enigma,
> Rhino, Hannibal,
> > Rykodisc, WEA) who has produced greatest hits packages by
> both Zachary
> > Richard and Gordon Lightfoot, and who has contributed
> liner notes to dozens
> > of projects.
>
>
> A loser in the industry who trashes the very people who
> provided his income? How hypocritical!
>
 
Re: I'll know when Rock 'n' Roll is dead:

> 1. When it becomes a niche format on public radio, and the
> public stations are running pledge drives so that we can
> continue to hear those great rock 'n' roll tunes we love, in
> the same way we do for classical music today.

Yep.. I can imagine it (NPR station chosen because it's one I know)... (switches to NPR announcer voice) "91.5 WRCX, Chicago's best rock and NPR News, wake up with Steve and Renee weekdays and let Rob, Michele and Melissa get you home. That was an early track from the newly re-united Smashing Pumpkins, off their Siamese Dream that was "Cherub Rock." If you like hearing your favorite rock music, please consider becoming a member of 91.5 WRCX. Your membership helps keep the music spinning. Your $25 membership gets you a subscription to WRCX World and an 91.5 WRCX t-shirt. At the $50 level you get a subscription to WRCX World and "The Smashing Pumpkins, Reunited", a DVD of all of the Smashing Pumpkins old and new songs in 5.1 Stereo Sound. At the $75 level, you get passes to the WRCX deck at Rock Stock 2020 in addition to the DVD and if you join us at the $100 level you get the Rock Stock 2019 Remembered, a video tour through concert, it's availble on HD-DVD, BluRay or UMD and it's yours at the $100 level. So once again, please consider joining us. We'll hear the latest from singer/songwriter Barb Sorensen, who's back in the US after an extensive world tour, after this but first this portion of programming on 91.5 WRCX is underwritten in part by Sony, makers of the PlayStation 9, now with exclusive in-your-brain technology, find out more at sony dot com. This is Chicago's best rock and NPR News, 91.5 WRCX Chicago, simulcast on 89.5 WRXR Chesterton and 90.7 WXRX Morris. Now at the top of the hour, here's NPR News...."

> 2. When commercial radio won't play rock 'n' roll any more,
> in the same way they don't play classical music anymore.

Ironically, 106.9 WFMR in the Milwaukee area is a commercial classical music station.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> I am off to turn up the low end a little more on our Hip Hop
> station....... ;-)
>

Ummm...I don't think that's the "low end" if yur playin' HipHop; it's much more likely to be gunfire!
 
> Ummm...I don't think that's the "low end" if yur playin'
> HipHop; it's much more likely to be gunfire!

Unless the stick is at/around 35th and Vilet, that probably is the low end he's hearing at the transmitter!

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
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