Rock & Roll

[TheFonz]

O.K., now that we've settled the Doo Wop issue in another thread, let's move on to another one of my pet issues..............the use of the term "Rock & Roll". I say that almost nothing past the 1960s qualifies as Rock & Roll. It is simply "Rock". What say you?

 

[deltas69]

When I hear the term 'rock and roll"..i think Elvis, Chuck Berry,..."Rock" I think Stones, Who, Cream..what lies between is a vast array of top 40, pop, chicken rock..mor...all played on the same station at one time back in the day..You would hear, Elvis, Chuck,Stones, Cream, Bread,Carpenters,CCr...all under the giant umbrella of R&R..of course this was when there were only two formats Rock..and the dark side (country).. :

 

[oldies76]

O.K., now that we've settled the Doo Wop issue in another thread, let's move on to another one of my pet issues..............the use of the term "Rock & Roll". I say that almost nothing past the 1960s qualifies as Rock & Roll. It is simply "Rock". What say you?

The Rock and Roll era is entering it's 58th year, but true sounding original Rock and Roll has to be the music of the 1955 to the British Invasion time period.

Post 1960's would more classify as pop-rock.

 

[Thomps2525]

If we consider Rock Around The Clock (released on May 10, 1954) to be the first rock'n'roll record, then the rock'n'roll era is approaching its 60th year. (You have to take the years inclusively, not just subtract the numbers.) Some people consider the first rock'n'roll song to be Jackie Brenston's Rocket 88 from 1951; that would make 2013 the 63rd year of the genre. In the mid-1950s rock'n'roll included Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, Bill Haley and Buddy Holly. In the 1970s rock'n'roll was Aerosmith, Grand Funk, Edgar Winter, Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones. The term "rock'n'roll" is obviously more encompassing than the term "doo-wop" 'cause those '50s artists had little in common with the '70s artists. Well...except for the fact that the Rolling Stones "borrowed" a lot of Chuck Berry riffs.

 

[landtuna]

I'm going to suggest "rock" is simply a sub-genre of "Popular" music and under Rock comes a plethora of varieties like Be-Bop, Folk Rock, Psychedelic Rock, Rockabilly, all the metal varieties etc.

Other genres on the same level as Rock would be: Disco, Motown, Standards, Big Band/Swing, Jazz and all its varieties etc.

Other genres on the same level as Popular would be: Classical, Native/Aboriginal, possibly New Age etc.

 

[firepoint525]

I have been listening to the retro American Top 40 broadcasts originally from the '70s, and Casey Kasem frequently makes mention of the "rock era," which was generally regarded as beginning about 1955. I don't know specifically when what we called "rock" ended, but if it didn't end any earlier, I would definitely and conclusively say that it ended in 1992. That was the first full year of Soundscan, which resulted in songs having monstrously long stays at #1, and it was also the first full year of "grunge." Need I say more? At least, grunge didn't last long.

 

[Thomps2525]

The grunge fad did lead to one memorable bit of pop culture: the hilarious video for Weird Al Yankovic's Smells Like Nirvana, a parody of Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit. Weird Al sang with a mouthful of marbles and sounded just like Kurt Cobain.

 

[TheFonz]

'50s artists had little in common with the '70s artists.

My point exactly. Therfore, those '70s artists shoud not be considered Rock & Roll.

 

[davideduardo]

'50s artists had little in common with the '70s artists.

My point exactly. Therfore, those '70s artists shoud not be considered Rock & Roll.

My car today bears little resemblance to a Model T Ford, but, in fact, both are "cars".

While horses and planes and cars are also forms of transportation, they are not specifically "cars".

Danny & The Juniors and Train and Chuck Berry and Pitbull don't sound the same, but they are part of a long continuum of pop music. It's still rock and roll to me.

 

[Thomps2525]

I like that last sentence. It sounds like it could be turned into a good song!

(Please, Billy Joel fans, don't say anything---that's just an example of my weird sense of humor.)

Cecil Adams, who writes a column called The Straight Dope, discussed the origin of the term "rock 'n' roll" at http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/382/who-invented-the-term-rock-n-roll and even though I knew what the words originally referred to, the article still made me blush.

 

[hornet61]

'50s artists had little in common with the '70s artists.

My point exactly. Therfore, those '70s artists shoud not be considered Rock & Roll.

My car today bears little resemblance to a Model T Ford, but, in fact, both are "cars".

While horses and planes and cars are also forms of transportation, they are not specifically "cars".

Danny & The Juniors and Train and Chuck Berry and Pitbull don't sound the same, but they are part of a long continuum of pop music. It's still rock and roll to me.

who said you had settled the doo-wop issue, this is the same bag of worms...saying chuck berry and pitbull are rock n roll is like saying...glen miller and snoop are big band..not a continuum of pop music...there are what maybe over 40 different billboard charts today (I'm guessing here..) Train and Pitbull can now be pigeon-holed where they belong....this is the same issue as doo-wop...define the term rock n roll, who coined it , when was it coined , there are references to rock n roll back to the start of the blues maybe further back ..where does it end the 70's the 80's , later, when did it cease being rock n roll and become metal, thrash, hard rock, industrial,grunge, punk, alternative, your not gonna settle this one either.

 

[oldies76]

Danny & The Juniors and Train and Chuck Berry and Pitbull don't sound the same, but they are part of a long continuum of pop music. It's still rock and roll to me.

Agreed! Although Rap music should be in it's own league. I would be real hesitant to classify Rap music, as "Rock and Roll".....but Gotye, Katy Perry or Rihanna? No problems.

 

[landtuna]

Agreed! Although Rap music should be in it's own league. I would be real hesitant to classify Rap music, as "Rock and Roll".....but Gotye, Katy Perry or Rihanna? No problems.

There is no such thing as rap "music". Rap should be classified as spoken word.

Your other performers belong in the "popular" genre, not rock.

 

[TheFonz]

who said you had settled the doo-wop issue, this is the same bag of worms...saying chuck berry and pitbull are rock n roll is like saying...glen miller and snoop are big band..not a continuum of pop music...there are what maybe over 40 different billboard charts today (I'm guessing here..) Train and Pitbull can now be pigeon-holed where they belong....this is the same issue as doo-wop...define the term rock n roll, who coined it , when was it coined , there are references to rock n roll back to the start of the blues maybe further back ..where does it end the 70's the 80's , later, when did it cease being rock n roll and become metal, thrash, hard rock, industrial,grunge, punk, alternative, your not gonna settle this one either.

If the American Bandstand dancers back in the 1950s wouldn't be able to dance to it, then it ain't Rock & Roll.

 

[hornet61]

who said you had settled the doo-wop issue, this is the same bag of worms...saying chuck berry and pitbull are rock n roll is like saying...glen miller and snoop are big band..not a continuum of pop music...there are what maybe over 40 different billboard charts today (I'm guessing here..) Train and Pitbull can now be pigeon-holed where they belong....this is the same issue as doo-wop...define the term rock n roll, who coined it , when was it coined , there are references to rock n roll back to the start of the blues maybe further back ..where does it end the 70's the 80's , later, when did it cease being rock n roll and become metal, thrash, hard rock, industrial,grunge, punk, alternative, your not gonna settle this one either.

If the American Bandstand dancers back in the 1950s wouldn't be able to dance to it, then it ain't Rock & Roll.

hey I am 66..we probably agree on this pretty much..If I am going to toss my two cents in, I say based on historical reference ie Alan freed, the movie Blackboard jungle..I'm gonna say 1954 to the release of the first Led Zepplin LP...we old timers refer to that as the start of the rock era..i say the original Rock N Roll term is based on R&B rethoric for music and dance (even thou some claim sex). Once the music go harder and distorted ..you pretty much can't dance to it, outside of hopping up and down..which ain't dancing. So Fonze you statement about the bandstand dancers may be right on the money..from zepplin forward it is still called Rock N Roll but if evolved more and more to todays sound..frankly I don't know what to call it..but like I said earlier now with the 40 plus charts you can find a specific place for it..

 

[landtuna]

There is some RnR that you can dance to and others you can't. That's why RnR isn't called "dance music" (although it did support a ton of different moves over the years).

 

[firepoint525]

There is no such thing as rap "music". Rap should be classified as spoken word.

I would take that even further and say that rappers are not "musicians." Now some may take that as a criticism, but it is not. Rappers do not perform "music." They do not play instruments. They just rap. Now there may be some who play guitars or keyboards or whatever, but in my opinion, "scratching" is not playing music. It may require a certain degree of "talent," but it is not "music."

 

[deltas69]

"scratching" is not playing music. It may require a certain degree of "talent," but it is not "music." WOW !! Cue burn is described as talent..LOL ;D

 

[landtuna]

There is no such thing as rap "music". Rap should be classified as spoken word.

I would take that even further and say that rappers are not "musicians." Now some may take that as a criticism, but it is not. Rappers do not perform "music." They do not play instruments. They just rap. Now there may be some who play guitars or keyboards or whatever, but in my opinion, "scratching" is not playing music. It may require a certain degree of "talent," but it is not "music."

Agreed, and apparently journalists the world over also agree because they invariably describe a rapper as "rapper Humongo Dillwad" instead of "musician..." or "artist...".

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

My own observations...

60-years ago, Rock 'n Roll's earliest critics took offense to the pelvic gyrations of it's performers. Today, (C)Rap detractors (like me) point more to the war mongering, street thug lyrics of it's so-called "performers".

I believe that Rock lost it's "roll" in the late '60s, when a new crop of artists hit the charts with smoother, more introspective lyrics, witness Crosby Stills & Nash, The Mamas & Papas, and The Byrds. Inspired by the grandfather of the raw folk movement, Bob Dylan, the appetite for such soul-searching tunes had been brewing in coffeeshops for many years, from Haight-Ashbury on the west coast to Greenwich Village in Manhattan. If one or two of R/D's more educated afficianados are tempted to challenge me on Crosby, Stills & Nash, do some homework on Stephen Stills himself. You'll find that Stills' first national touring experience was with a folk group called The Au Go Gos. David Crosby had exposure with The Byrds. All of these merchants of mellow, in one form or another, eventually broke in to the culture of mainstream rock 'n roll charts, though I doubt any of them would have classified themselves as Rock 'n Roll performers.

I don't automatically associate Rock 'n Rolls evolution with the British Invasion groups, since they, at least early on, stayed true to the then-familiar additude of Rock 'n Roll. An early day Beatles song, Words Of Love, and Herman's Hermits Can't You Hear My Heart Beat were both clearly influenced by the Buddy Holly sound waning in popularity here in the Colonies. Even the start-up Rolling Stones were Rock 'n Roll, though more in the Liverpool tradition.

Hearing songs by any of the above mentioned acts still gives me goosebumps, save for the (C)RAPpers, who give me the creeps. So, branding, i.e "Rock 'n Roll", and "Rock", isn't important to me. What mattered to me then, as it does now, is how much I loved their music.