Rock Song question

[SCRHack]

Alright since I feel like stiring it up some here goes.

Everyone talks about bands like My Morning Jacket and Arcade Fire as important. I think differently. I think its been a LONG time since we've had a "important" rock act. To determine this I wanted to but this question out there...

In the past 15 years what song by a new artist in the rock genre is going to withstand the test of time?

IE when we're all old and grey or older and greyer in some cases which songs would be on a Classic Rock station then. I can only really think of Teen Spirit and Jeremy.

I think we'll hear newer U2 like Electric Storm and Vertigo. But again they're an established band not a new band.

The rock audience has become so fragmented with the micro genres like emo, screamo, punk, pop punk... that it has been a long time since a universally regarded good "rock" song has come out. I'm not talking just critically acclaimed I'm talking critics, fans the whole kit and caboodle.

I mean a few years ago I thought Jet was gonna be the saving grace of music but they really have fell off the map quite quickly.

 

[DrJonnyFever]

> In the past 15 years what song by a new artist in the rock
> genre is going to withstand the test of time?
>
> But again they're an established band not a new band.
>
> The rock audience has become so fragmented with the micro
> genres like emo, screamo, punk, pop punk... that it has been
> a long time since a universally regarded good "rock" song
> has come out. I'm not talking just critically acclaimed I'm
> talking critics, fans the whole kit and caboodle.
>
> I mean a few years ago I thought Jet was gonna be the saving
> grace of music but they really have fell off the map quite
> quickly.
>
loaded question, and it really is answered with "who knows"
I think the rock is dead thing is about as real as God is dead.
Dave Mathews has no problem selling out shows and records. Radio doesn't play 'em now but MMR never played Motley Crue and Metallica when they where big. Metallica will still be getting played when we are old and gray. Incubus also does pretty well on both fronts. Audioslave, Soundgarden, STP, they had more radio hits then anybody, well you know newer stuff. Creed might disappear, much like Journey did. The problem is yes, big, big, stupid big money is over for Rock radio, or coming to an end, but there many bands that still can keep you from turning the dial and many people that will listen. It is all in presentation, and right now Rock radio is doing a SH*TY job presenting the format... so the answer is give up and instead of working at it and developing. Lots of great rock out there, now you just have to look for it.. hey and who knows i wouldn't call Jet dead yet, new album on the way... Oh Green Day like 'em or not they are not going away......

 

[SCRHack]

Green Day is a perfect example. I'm 24 in ten years am I gonna be boppin my head to Basket Case or am I gonna be like damn what the heck was I thinking?

You listen to some classic rock, The Who, Beatles, Zep, ETC... you wouldn't think that. Cause its good music ya know. It's gonna remain good for however long.

I think Green Day would have more of an expiration date. It's kinda lik when you hear Snow "Informer" or Baby Got Back. Its a terrible song but you're singing for the novelty of it and I think thats where alot of Today's rock falls in the category of.

 

[Wil]

I have you beat by 10 years. I was a huge Def Leppard fan in my early teens, and remain a fan today. There new stuff gets little or no airplay, even though their CD's usually debut in the top 20 (then fade fast). I am still a fan, and enjoy their newer stuff. I am amazed at how often Pour Some Sugar on Me still gets played (93.3, 93.7, 94.1, 94.7, BEN,100.7, 102.1, SOJO, etc.., but I was blown away by the crowd response it got, and they got, at VH-1's Big in '05 last Sunday. For those of you who didn't see it, DL closed the show, fans voted what song they wanted them to play on VH1.com, and Sugar won. That is a song that has stood the test of time for some reason or another.

To answer your original question, "Enter Sandman" fits into your time frame. Bon Jovi's "It's My Life" still gets some play, probably because it sounds like "Livin On A Parayer" Part 2. U-2 fits your time frame. Some people wuld have argued that Creed songs would last, that didn't happen.

How about "Kryptonite" from 3 Doors Down or "How You Remind Me" from Nickelback? Have they reached their end yet, or will they last awhile longer?

 

[SCRHack]

Funny you should mention Def Leppard cause listening to Pour Some Sugar on me is what prompted this thought in my head.

Enter Sandman DEFINITLY. Good call.

Bon Jovi's It's My Life is being played cause it Bon Jovi. IMO the song is awful so that doesn't fit the criteria. Same goes for U2 although I think Vertigo and a few others will withstand the test. PS Doesnt Have a Nice Day sound exactly the same?

Creed is pretty done and I don't think Nickelback will withstand the test of time either. I DO think that Krypotonite might. It's kinda catchy enough to make it. But I'm skeptical.


>
> To answer your original question, "Enter Sandman" fits
> into your time frame. Bon Jovi's "It's My Life" still gets
> some play, probably because it sounds like "Livin On A
> Parayer" Part 2. U-2 fits your time frame. Some people
> wuld have argued that Creed songs would last, that didn't
> happen.
>
> How about "Kryptonite" from 3 Doors Down or "How You
> Remind Me" from Nickelback? Have they reached their end
> yet, or will they last awhile longer?
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by SCRHack on 12/06/05 09:54 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[KlassikKountry]

I have to be careful here, I do not want to be set up by you. But, if you read my posts in the last 3 months, I have named over 50 bands which are a hot commodity. Rock and Metal can stand the test of time, better than any Rap or Hip Hop track. Like I said over and over, its the big whigs, who control the audiance and make anything they want to be hot. Just a bunch of cigar smoking, Beemer/Mercedes, suburban, not on my block blend of wealthy people, who don't care what kind of problems the music stirs up, just bring them the ca$h.

 

[mwf114]

The My Morning Jackets-Wilco-Aracade Fire type bands are very important musically. They are expanding and experimenting with the rock art form. They will never be big comercially, because MMR,etc. will not play a band who doesn't have name recognition and a catchy sound (ie Nickelback) Rock radio used to embrace its experimental side. The side that loved to play the new artist. At the end of the day, the aformentioned bands will do more for rock music as an art form than the bands currently being played on rock radio. Thats just sad.

 

[SCRHack]

Rock and
> Metal can stand the test of time, better than any Rap or Hip
> Hop track.

Look back at the last five years and tell me that. There has been nothing but vanilla rock songs coming out as their stations have faded, new hip hop has been taking over stations left and right and has been more commercially viable.

I see your posts with these bands but you don't give me anybody that I haven't really heard of or that I think is anything magnificent. Especially bands you are claiming are new that have been out on the scene for a long while and have really made waves.

Hip Hop music has as much staying power as rock. If not moreso right now. If you go to a wedding you'll hear Apache quite frequently one of the FIRST rap songs ever. C'mon now. I'm trying to make this past bias. Don't bias the conversation.

You named bands previously but haven't given me one track to be like hot damn that song will be played for years and years to come.

 

[SCRHack]

> The My Morning Jackets-Wilco-Aracade Fire type bands are
> very important musically. They are expanding and
> experimenting with the rock art form.

Ok. You're the first person to give me the WHY of why they're important. Now ya gotta tell me how. How are they expanding and experimenting? Are they not commercially viable because of outside influences or does its sound not ring true with a wide array of people.

Is there any one track from any of these groups that you see as a Pantheon Track something that will be here for a long time to come?

 

[OldNumber7]

> I think we'll hear newer U2 like Electric Storm and Vertigo.
> But again they're an established band not a new band.

Of course, your question presumes that new bands MUST set the pace and I'm not sure I'm agree with the premise. If anybody needed any more proof that Rock radio is screwed up, look at the Rolling Stones. They've put out a GREAT album, are in the middle of a hugely successful tour, and have to BEG to get airplay. The Active Rock stations figure the Stones don't fit their demo and the Classic Rock stations generally won't play new stuff. There are plenty of halfway decent newer bands out there that will be known 10 years from now for a song or two, but radio and the record industry are still trying to find the next Stones when there's nothing wrong with the first Stones.

 

[SCRHack]

There are plenty of halfway
> decent newer bands out there that will be known 10 years
> from now for a song or two, but radio and the record
> industry are still trying to find the next Stones when
> there's nothing wrong with the first Stones.
>
Quite philoshopical.

The reason I posed it like that is I think bands such as Bon Jovi (not so much the stones.) Get their new songs played because of their name value and recognition. I think with a new band (unless the Buzz is huge, like it was with Franz Ferndinand) the song has to be more important than the name. Ya follow? But seriously great point and I may have to check out the new Stones album.

On a side note have you heard the new Queen?

 

[KlassikKountry]

I really do not want to draw things out but look at the new stuff by Crue, If I Die Tomorrow was Big in early 2005, what happened, the upper echelon killed it quick, same with Priest and Motorheads new stuff. Bands like the Darkness, Trapt, New Found Glory, AFI, Story of the Year, I can go on and on were stomped. Face it, the wheels can get more mileage from what they call Rap and Hip Hop. I would love to see 50cent, House of Pain, Busta Rhymes, Cypress Hill and all these other two-bit acts stand up to Sabbath, Doors, Metallica, Zepplin, Skid Row, GNR, forget it, when all the Rappers believe something they are thick skulled and will not listen to anything concrete.

 

[SCRHack]

, House of Pain - Jump around an absolute classic Cypress Hill - Insane in the brain same. YOu want rap with meaning try Juicy by Biggie Smalls.

 

[mwf114]

> > The My Morning Jackets-Wilco-Aracade Fire type bands are
> > very important musically. They are expanding and
> > experimenting with the rock art form.
>
> Ok. You're the first person to give me the WHY of why
> they're important. Now ya gotta tell me how. How are they
> expanding and experimenting? Are they not commercially
> viable because of outside influences or does its sound not
> ring true with a wide array of people.
>
> Is there any one track from any of these groups that you see
> as a Pantheon Track something that will be here for a long
> time to come?
>

The how? Another loaded question. Clearly, the HOW depends on the band, as you well know. A perfect example would be Wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, a monumental work of musical art from 2001. A record that Warner Brothers basically threw back in the bands faces claiming the songs were not commerically viable. It was Jeff Tweedy experiementing with song structure, sound, etc; or the reverb qualities and rock and roll structure of a My Morning Jacket album.

Ultimately, the quality of these bands rests with their albums, and not an individual "single" being spun on rock radio. Tell me the last great rock disc? Its difficult, while a band like Audioslave may have 9 singles from an album being played on the radio, the songs seem mutually exclusive with no sense of connection. Same can be said for the Foo Fighters, Fuel, Nickelback, etc. The "single" these bands are producing is for rock radio, MTV2, VH1, and for the sorry fellow who will go to Best Buy, ask for the Seether record because they heard a song on MMR, take one listen, and throw it away.

Now, listen to a Wilco album, or the Flaming Lips, or Sufjan Stevens, or Spoon, or My Morning Jacket, or Radiohead; their work products have never been defined by the single, but the album. The song craft as a result is different, a larger story is being told in a 12 song album than a 3:00 minute "alt-metal-pop song" .

In the end, rock music has always been defined by the great album..Quadrophenia, Dark Side of the Moon, Nevermind, Astral Weeks, Blood on the Tracks, etc. Why now does rock radio shy away from what the art form does best, creating great song craft through an album.

 

[mwf114]

> > > The My Morning Jackets-Wilco-Aracade Fire type bands are
>
> > > very important musically. They are expanding and
> > > experimenting with the rock art form.
> >
> > Ok. You're the first person to give me the WHY of why
> > they're important. Now ya gotta tell me how. How are they
> > expanding and experimenting? Are they not commercially
> > viable because of outside influences or does its sound not
>
> > ring true with a wide array of people.
> >
> > Is there any one track from any of these groups that you
> see
> > as a Pantheon Track something that will be here for a long
>
> > time to come?
> >
>
> The how? Another loaded question. Clearly, the HOW depends
> on the band, as you well know. A perfect example would be
> Wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, a monumental work of musical
> art from 2001. A record that Warner Brothers basically threw
> back in the bands faces claiming the songs were not
> commerically viable. It was Jeff Tweedy experiementing with
> song structure, sound, etc; or the reverb qualities and rock
> and roll structure of a My Morning Jacket album.
>
> Ultimately, the quality of these bands rests with their
> albums, and not an individual "single" being spun on rock
> radio. Tell me the last great rock disc? Its difficult,
> while a band like Audioslave may have 9 singles from an
> album being played on the radio, the songs seem mutually
> exclusive with no sense of connection. Same can be said for
> the Foo Fighters, Fuel, Nickelback, etc. The "single" these
> bands are producing is for rock radio, MTV2, VH1, and for
> the sorry fellow who will go to Best Buy, ask for the
> Seether record because they heard a song on MMR, take one
> listen, and throw it away.
>
> Now, listen to a Wilco album, or the Flaming Lips, or Sufjan
> Stevens, or Spoon, or My Morning Jacket, or Radiohead; their
> work products have never been defined by the single, but the
> album. The song craft as a result is different, a larger
> story is being told in a 12 song album than a 3:00 minute
> "alt-metal-pop song" .
>
> In the end, rock music has always been defined by the great
> album..Quadrophenia, Dark Side of the Moon, Nevermind,
> Astral Weeks, Blood on the Tracks, etc. Why now does rock
> radio shy away from what the art form does best, creating
> great song craft through an album.



You know what. To truly make my point from the previous post, go out and buy Wilco's Being There from 1996. Nobody, except for XPN, played the album, but by all accounts would be considered a classic album.

 

[KlassikKountry]

You should of checked out VH1 Classic last night, the year 1992 was previewed, (they are doing specials every night), this segment showed all the bands out of Seattle, everything I was talking about was portrayed next. It was when the violent Rap bands were coming out with their racist lyrics, the Cop Killer piece was focused on. Bush and Quayle came out against it saying, the big wheels are promoting music that says its ok to kill cops. I forgot the fool that put the music out, Ice Tea, Ice Cube, NWA, who knows one from the other, the message is the same. Next, they interviewed the liberal, white, music executives that defended the artists and the music, typical, middle aged, balding, suit and tie, miserable, big cigar smoking, not on my block type. Just bring in the cash, don't worry about how this music presents many problems. That audiance just does not understand, the promoters care nothing about them, they want their cash, and if they die or become injured while under the influence of this music, so be it.

 

[SCRHack]

What about all the pyscadelic rock of the 60s that promoted drug use. Even the Beatles. C'mon now. You can't turn a deaf ear and blind eye to the exact same thing that was going on before rap even hit the streets.

Those people were simply rapping about where they were from and what they saw on the day to day. Your not on my block comment about the suits upstairs reflects just that. The rappers WEREN'T on your block. They were showing you THEIR block. No one ever said you had to like it. But to discount it as a musical genre is insane especially under the terms that you are trying to do so.

 

[SCRHack]

So let me sum this up as neatly as I can. You're saying the fall of rock radio is due to the idea of singles sell instead of an album that flows together. And that the great rock was made from the WHOLE album not just from a track here or there. Hence why when it was at its Apex there were Album Rock Stations.

I'll definitly buy that. I think that can be said for MANY diferent genres not just rock but I think it has bene the most negatively effected by the idea. Well done. And maybe I will check out that Wilco album. My roommate used to play em I didn't really dig em. Coulda been cause I hated my roommate. Although I did like Modest Mouse.

 

[apco25]

Hello Mr. Shreck, we've meet again, with another one of your passive liberal,enemy within statements. Read On............

> What about all the pyscadelic rock of the 60s that promoted
> drug use. Even the Beatles. C'mon now. You can't turn a deaf
> ear and blind eye to the exact same thing that was going on
> before rap even hit the streets.
>

What about drug use? First of all you might be on something yourself, you can't spell psychedelic man. Plus drug use is not as threatening to society and communities with lyrics as far as drive bye's,thuggings, and glamorizing ghettos.

Drug use was more self inflicting, it didn't threaten the innocent with violence. All you had to do is say no.
Number 2 ....the Beatles and the rest of the 60's were very talented, educated musicians, producers, songwriters, and even if you didn't care for drugs....you still were lured singing the lyrics to Itchycoo Park.

Yes the music was quite influential back then, it's because these guys had talent , no matter what their politics were.


> Those people were simply rapping about where they were from
> and what they saw on the day to day. Your not on my block
> comment about the suits upstairs reflects just that. The
> rappers WEREN'T on your block. They were showing you THEIR
> block. No one ever said you had to like it. But to discount
> it as a musical genre is insane especially under the terms
> that you are trying to do so.
>

The music industry society has been pummeled on the air with "in your face" videos, movies and along with radio stations, pay for play labels, about glorifying the urban ghettos, that they were out trying to influence suburban kids to how great thug life is, they end up becoming just like you.....they don't know what the hell their culture is.
and matter of fact....it just answered your post below, where are your rock stars on the radio.....(Rolling Stones) you've been dictated too what trend you will all follow. Thank your own left leaning ways.

I would also state that these urban videos are also a insult to blacks and especially educated blacks that try or wish, or are happy so much to get out of these neighborhoods, and you have a certain group that tries to glorify it.
I would say at least 70% of America who grew up listening to all forms of hit music, hate or dislike rap, or hip hop, ...but don't forget the other 30% is also a big number. Mostly younger of course. And in these times, the minority has taken control making you think everybody's into it.

So MR. SHreck....I want you to continue keeping an open mind buy walking down Broad Street around 9 PM friday night, Grow a ponytail with a Starbucks coffee cup in your hand.
Then I'll see you on the next video...........Action News!

 

[Wil]

> Bon Jovi's It's My Life is being played cause it Bon Jovi.
> IMO the song is awful so that doesn't fit the criteria. Same
> goes for U2 although I think Vertigo and a few others will
> withstand the test. PS Doesnt Have a Nice Day sound exactly
> the same?

Now that you mention it, it IS the same song.