Roku Internet Radio at Longview TX Best Buy

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapo wrote: "Most online listening is to streams of traditional radio stations."

He just made that up to promote short range, defective, destructive, unwanted, unecessary, HD Radio.

According to: http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_071906-digitalprojectionsupdwradio.htm

All forms of Internet Radio's total cume, incuding cell streaming from the internet, and podcasting by 2010 will equal:

Internet Radio 187.33 million
Wireless Internet 159.23 "
Mobile Phone Streaming (from internet) 11.81 "
Podcasting 3.95 "
_________
TOTAL INTERNET CUME 362.32 million

While the terrestrial broadcast radio total cume is only: 278.59 million

Internet cume beating terrestrial cume by 83.73 million by 2010.

That is only about 3 years from now!

HDradio will only be at a miserable 8.84 million cume. Not enough to sustain thousands of HD stations.

Evidence that HD Radio is just another dead end system, similar to several others that have gone before, and disappeared.

Gee - does anyone wonder why Bridge Ratings isn't accredited by the Media Rating Council?

Check out the "methodology" they used at the bottom of the page.

Methodology: Random digit phone dialing, mall intercepts What?

How do you project "digital media growth" over the next 13 years by surveying people on the phone and at the mall?

Excuse me sir... Do you think you'll be listening to internet radio ten years from now?

What a load of BS!

I think this excerpt from their website pretty much says it all: http://www.bridgeratings.com/faq.htm

Question 2 - Does Bridge Ratings Predict the Future?

Answer -No serious futurist deals with "predictions". These are left for television oracles and newspaper astrologers. No one even faintly familiar with the complexities of forecasting lays claim to absolute knowledge of tomorrow. This means that every statement about the future ought to be accompanied by a string of qualifiers - ifs, ands, buts, and on-the-other-hands.

The estimates researched and published by Bridge Ratings should be taken with this consideration. As a company that deals in maybes and future behaviors we trust that our clients and readers of our reports will understand that the word "will" should always be read as though it were preceded by "probably" or "in our estimate". It should also be understood that between today and that far distant future consumer behavior may and in all likelihood be changed by any number of things including consumer "free will" and technologies that have not been heretofore introduced into the public psyche.

In other words, we kinda think this might happen but we're not really sure. Really, we don't have a clue.

Their predictions make absolutely no sense either. The predict internet radio will have cume of 226 million by 2020, yet regular terrestrial radio will still have cume of 235 million - compared with 282 million today.

That scenario absolutely can not happen. If internet radio were to pick up that much cume, terrestrial radio would loose much more than 56 million listeners - even accounting for population growth. If internet radio were that popular and that widespread, traditional radio would suffer significant cume loss. There's no way around it.

So the question is - why would they freely give this information away on their website? They are a ratings company after all - they trade in data, and this should be valuable data they would want to sell.

The answer is simple: It's marketing - NOT RESEARCH - and they're trying to work both sides of the fence. They don't want to post a dire prediction about terrestrial radio because they want our money. They also want to paint a rosy picture for internet radio because they want their money.

It's baloney - and they say as much in their own FAQ.

Good stuff Supercaster. I needed a good laugh!

 

[ElCheapo]

You know, it's funny. I knew Mark Ramsey and I shared some common ground somewhere.

As it turns out, it's on Bridge Ratings and their predictions.

http://www.hear2.com/2006/10/the_value_of_pr.html

 

[700WLW]

Look at this laughable number, for HD Radio:

"And in case you DO think there's something here for you to attend to, I would remind you that in March 2006 Bridge projected 46 million HD radios in circulation by 2020. What's the new and updated number? 26 million."

http://www.hear2.com/2006/10/the_value_of_pr.html

Only a few tens-of-thousands HD radios have been sold (not counting the number returned), so far - 26 million, by 2020, is certainly a joke, because HD Radio will be dead long before that !

 

[700WLW]

You know, it's funny. I knew Mark Ramsey and I shared some common ground somewhere.

As it turns out, it's on Bridge Ratings and their predictions.

http://www.hear2.com/2006/10/the_value_of_pr.html

"iPods More Popular Than Beer"

"So, if you are dependent on 18-24 year old ratings from Nielsen, Arbitron or BBM and you keep wondering why you're having a hard time reaching them, it's not just because they're doing another beer bong. They're on their iPod."

http://jointcommunications.blogspot.com/2006/06/ipods-more-popular-than-beer.html

HD Radio can forget about the 18-24 year-olds!

 

[Chuck]

Chuck,

Thanks for reporting the Best Buy sighting. I agree, it's significant that it's available "at the edge of the universe". Roku, a small California company, got their product into Best Buy. Meanwhile, an alliance of major radio broadcasters, with a $200,000,000 ad campaign, have so far been unable to do the same for any HD radios. Very telling.

Ya know - it just hit me. This device is being manufactured by a "small California company."

So is every other "internet radio" appliance. They're all manufactured by small companies that nobody has ever heard of.

If this is the future, why don't the big boys see it?

Heck - HD Radio has Boston Acoustics, Polk Audio, Cambridge SoundWorks, Sangean, JVC and Kenwood. It also has Radio Shack's new in-store brand Accurian.

It is fair to point out that Polk and Boston Acoustics started out as small companies. I don't know their numbers, but I don't think they are exactly "huge" by today's standards. The rest probably started small too. I can remember when Radio Shack was just two stores in Boston....

 

[700WLW]

You know, it's funny. I knew Mark Ramsey and I shared some common ground somewhere.

As it turns out, it's on Bridge Ratings and their predictions.

http://www.hear2.com/2006/10/the_value_of_pr.html

"Terrestrial Radio’s Share of Internet Radio Listening Hits New High"

"The authors state that, “On a year-over-year basis, growth is much stronger, reflecting the terrestrial operators’ recent investments into their digital/online operations. Unique visitors to the terrestrial operators’ sites are up more than 110% year over year, while the Internet operators’ sites are up about 25% year over year.”

http://www.rwonline.com/dailynews/one.php?id=10121

 

[ElCheapo]

It is fair to point out that Polk and Boston Acoustics started out as small companies. I don't know their numbers, but I don't think they are exactly "huge" by today's standards. The rest probably started small too. I can remember when Radio Shack was just two stores in Boston....

Chuck, virtually every large company started out as a small company. Even companies that were later merged into an even larger company started out as smaller entities initially.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Surely if some of these larger companies actually believed "research" like the Bridge Ratings joke, they would be all over this. They're not.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

ElCheapo said:

Good stuff Supercaster. I needed a good laugh!

Apparently HD Radio is only for those who are extremely easy to amuse, and enjoy "simple" entertainments.

Reporting, quoting and analyzing ratings and research is commonly done all over this site. Perhaps research is all BS? ;D

 

[700WLW]

Apparently HD Radio is only for those who are extremely easy to amuse, and enjoy "simple" entertainments.

Apparently, they enjoy the challenge of deploying elaborate HD Radio antenna systems !

 

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapo said:

Good stuff Supercaster. I needed a good laugh!

Apparently HD Radio is only for those who are extremely easy to amuse, and enjoy "simple" entertainments.

Reporting, quoting and analyzing ratings and research is commonly done all over this site. Perhaps research is all BS? ;D

There's reasearch, then there's junk.

If you check the often quoted and much touted Hear2.0 site, you'll see that Mark Ramsey's opinion of Bridge Ratings isn't very high. In fact, he often laments the fact that radio's trade publications quote them because their methodology is so obviously flawed.

You can't compare Bridge Ratings to Arbitron or Nielsen - the research firms that ARE often quoted here.

 

[700WLW]

ElCheapo said:

Good stuff Supercaster. I needed a good laugh!

Apparently HD Radio is only for those who are extremely easy to amuse, and enjoy "simple" entertainments.

Reporting, quoting and analyzing ratings and research is commonly done all over this site. Perhaps research is all BS? ;D

There's reasearch, then there's junk.

If you check the often quoted and much touted Hear2.0 site, you'll see that Mark Ramsey's opinion of Bridge Ratings isn't very high. In fact, he often laments the fact that radio's trade publications quote them because their methodology is so obviously flawed.

You can't compare Bridge Ratings to Arbitron or Nielsen - the research firms that ARE often quoted here.

"Digital Platforms Extend Radio Beyond AM/FM Dial"

"Growth of Internet Radio"

"Internet radio is growing rapidly. The monthly audience age 12+ now tops an estimated 52 million; an increase from an estimated 37 million people in 2005. The weekly Internet radio audience also increased 50 percent over the past year, with 12 percent of the U.S. population age 12+ (an estimated 30 million) having listened to Internet radio in the past week, up from 8 percent in 2005."

http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/archives/2006/04/digital_platfor.php

Is this junk, too ?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

It is fair to point out that Polk and Boston Acoustics started out as small companies. I don't know their numbers, but I don't think they are exactly "huge" by today's standards. The rest probably started small too. I can remember when Radio Shack was just two stores in Boston....

Chuck, virtually every large company started out as a small company. Even companies that were later merged into an even larger company started out as smaller entities initially.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Surely if some of these larger companies actually believed "research" like the Bridge Ratings joke, they would be all over this. They're not.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Really?
http://edageek.com/2006/12/07/iona-wi-fi-portable-internet-radio/
http://www.wordsun.com/cc104GBg.htm
http://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/news_pr181.shtml
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/99644/new-platform-heralds-cut-price-internet-radio.html
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid=%7BB2CAB741%2DED37%2D423D%2DA905%2D838DE70E646B%7D&dist=rss
http://blog.wired.com/music/2006/12/wifi_radio_gath.html
http://www.sesac.com/ind_news_detail.aspx?news_ID=26
http://www.wifinetnews.com/archives/007209.html
I could go on and on, but why bother. HD radio supporters are clearly in denial.

As further support:

Wi-fi Radio in the Wings
While subscription-based satellite radio continues to dominate popular press buzz on the future of the radio medium, its growth has been stealthily eclipsed by another streamed-audio medium--Internet radio. Thus far, it has been a quiet revolution.

Even though research organizations like Bridge Media show that consumer sampling of Internet radio has grown at a rate greater than that of satellite or HD Radio, the fact that consumers now have literally thousands of free, non-subscription radio services to choose from has largely been ignored by mainstream media, based on the assumption that Internet radio is accessible only to geeks tethered to their home PCs; hardly competition for inexpensive, mobile and easy to use broadcast and satellite radios.

But that might be about to change. According to a recent article by Matthew Ingram in the Toronto Globe and Mail's Update online publication, a new family of small, wireless Internet appliances designed specifically for surfing Internet radio are now making their way to market.

Excerpt from:
http://beradio.com/digital_radio_update/digital_radio_update_122006/#wifi

 

[ElCheapo]

It is fair to point out that Polk and Boston Acoustics started out as small companies. I don't know their numbers, but I don't think they are exactly "huge" by today's standards. The rest probably started small too. I can remember when Radio Shack was just two stores in Boston....

Chuck, virtually every large company started out as a small company. Even companies that were later merged into an even larger company started out as smaller entities initially.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Surely if some of these larger companies actually believed "research" like the Bridge Ratings joke, they would be all over this. They're not.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Really?
http://edageek.com/2006/12/07/iona-wi-fi-portable-internet-radio/
http://www.wordsun.com/cc104GBg.htm
http://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/news_pr181.shtml
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/99644/new-platform-heralds-cut-price-internet-radio.html
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid=%7BB2CAB741%2DED37%2D423D%2DA905%2D838DE70E646B%7D&dist=rss
http://blog.wired.com/music/2006/12/wifi_radio_gath.html
http://www.sesac.com/ind_news_detail.aspx?news_ID=26
http://www.wifinetnews.com/archives/007209.html
I could go on and on, but why bother. HD radio supporters are clearly in denial.

As further support:

Wi-fi Radio in the Wings
While subscription-based satellite radio continues to dominate popular press buzz on the future of the radio medium, its growth has been stealthily eclipsed by another streamed-audio medium--Internet radio. Thus far, it has been a quiet revolution.

Even though research organizations like Bridge Media show that consumer sampling of Internet radio has grown at a rate greater than that of satellite or HD Radio, the fact that consumers now have literally thousands of free, non-subscription radio services to choose from has largely been ignored by mainstream media, based on the assumption that Internet radio is accessible only to geeks tethered to their home PCs; hardly competition for inexpensive, mobile and easy to use broadcast and satellite radios.

But that might be about to change. According to a recent article by Matthew Ingram in the Toronto Globe and Mail's Update online publication, a new family of small, wireless Internet appliances designed specifically for surfing Internet radio are now making their way to market.

Excerpt from:
http://beradio.com/digital_radio_update/digital_radio_update_122006/#wifi

I followed the first link - it was exactly what I expected and proves my point. Why bother with the rest?

When I think of companies that are major players in the world of high tech, personal electronics, I know Cambridge Consultants is right up there at the top of the list. Dell, Apple, HP, Cambridge Consultants. Definitely a top of mind, major player.

Oooh! Bonus! They're using the Bridge Ratings "study" to sell the need for their platform to investors.

Could you possibly work any harder to prove my points?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

It is fair to point out that Polk and Boston Acoustics started out as small companies. I don't know their numbers, but I don't think they are exactly "huge" by today's standards. The rest probably started small too. I can remember when Radio Shack was just two stores in Boston....

Chuck, virtually every large company started out as a small company. Even companies that were later merged into an even larger company started out as smaller entities initially.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Surely if some of these larger companies actually believed "research" like the Bridge Ratings joke, they would be all over this. They're not.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Really?
http://edageek.com/2006/12/07/iona-wi-fi-portable-internet-radio/
http://www.wordsun.com/cc104GBg.htm
http://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/news_pr181.shtml
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/99644/new-platform-heralds-cut-price-internet-radio.html
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid=%7BB2CAB741%2DED37%2D423D%2DA905%2D838DE70E646B%7D&dist=rss
http://blog.wired.com/music/2006/12/wifi_radio_gath.html
http://www.sesac.com/ind_news_detail.aspx?news_ID=26
http://www.wifinetnews.com/archives/007209.html
I could go on and on, but why bother. HD radio supporters are clearly in denial.

As further support:

Wi-fi Radio in the Wings
While subscription-based satellite radio continues to dominate popular press buzz on the future of the radio medium, its growth has been stealthily eclipsed by another streamed-audio medium--Internet radio. Thus far, it has been a quiet revolution.

Even though research organizations like Bridge Media show that consumer sampling of Internet radio has grown at a rate greater than that of satellite or HD Radio, the fact that consumers now have literally thousands of free, non-subscription radio services to choose from has largely been ignored by mainstream media, based on the assumption that Internet radio is accessible only to geeks tethered to their home PCs; hardly competition for inexpensive, mobile and easy to use broadcast and satellite radios.

But that might be about to change. According to a recent article by Matthew Ingram in the Toronto Globe and Mail's Update online publication, a new family of small, wireless Internet appliances designed specifically for surfing Internet radio are now making their way to market.

Excerpt from:
http://beradio.com/digital_radio_update/digital_radio_update_122006/#wifi

I followed the first link - it was exactly what I expected and proves my point. Why bother with the rest?

When I think of companies that are major players in the world of high tech, personal electronics, I know Cambridge Consultants is right up there at the top of the list. Dell, Apple, HP, Cambridge Consultants. Definitely a top of mind, major player.

Oooh! Bonus! They're using the Bridge Ratings "study" to sell the need for their platform to investors.

Could you possibly work any harder to prove my points?

You haven't proven any your points, and neither can you twist anything I posted as doing so.

 

[Chuck]

Chuck, virtually every large company started out as a small company. Even companies that were later merged into an even larger company started out as smaller entities initially.

The point is, the internet radio appliance market is being ignored.

Surely if some of these larger companies actually believed "research" like the Bridge Ratings joke, they would be all over this. They're not.

The truth is neither of us really knows what will happen. Predicting the future is a very inexact science. Just like HD, the jury is still out on Internet Radio. For all either of us knows, Roku may be the next Microsoft. Big business has missed the boat more than once.

As time goes on, bandwidth will get cheaper. It already has, and I think it is fair to think that trend will continue. I also predict that more and more equipment will find its way to the market because there are practical reasons for its existence that have nothing to do with radio. The fact that you can also listen to Internet radio stations is simply a bonus to services you already need or want. Even then, Internet radio may not succeed. More likely, the forces of greed will make Internet streaming extremely unattractive. The RIAA/SoundExchnage folks are well on their way to seeing to that. They may also derail HD radio as well, since they seem paranoid that somebody will actually record a 24 KBs stream (however it is delivered) and not bother to pay for the recording.

The one thing we do know is radio will never be the same again.