Ron Chapman stuff

[TheLaffer]

In just about every top 20 market i can name you a programmer/talent (including my brother) just as talented and MORE than Ron Chapman. They have accomplished more, better ratings, more versatile and generally more entertaining. Yes Ron is good but NOT THE GREATEST by far.

This whole "Who is better, Ron or (insert some other jpck's name here)" is the only thing getting old.

What makes Ron good in my book, is what he did for radio, behind the scenes. He truly understood what radio was, and is supposed to be about. He put the listener first, and profit second. Sure anyone can claim one jock is better than another. But Ron had an understanding that went way beyond just being a jock. You're not going to find too many people in radio today, with that kind of passion, knowledge, understanding and direction.

R

Robert,

That's an insult to all the hundreds if not thousands of talents in this business both vets and newbies. There's plenty of passion among TALENT ranks.

 

[Robert Bass]

In just about every top 20 market i can name you a programmer/talent (including my brother) just as talented and MORE than Ron Chapman. They have accomplished more, better ratings, more versatile and generally more entertaining. Yes Ron is good but NOT THE GREATEST by far.

This whole "Who is better, Ron or (insert some other jpck's name here)" is the only thing getting old.

What makes Ron good in my book, is what he did for radio, behind the scenes. He truly understood what radio was, and is supposed to be about. He put the listener first, and profit second. Sure anyone can claim one jock is better than another. But Ron had an understanding that went way beyond just being a jock. You're not going to find too many people in radio today, with that kind of passion, knowledge, understanding and direction.

R

Robert,

That's an insult to all the hundreds if not thousands of talents in this business both vets and newbies. There's plenty of passion among TALENT ranks.

Oh come on Laffer, surely you know me better enough than that. Launching insults is not my intention here, nor is it my style. Have you read any of the posts from Radio Truth yet? He is the one dishing out insults, especially towards the vets. Notice he never responded to the list of legends who have made names for themselves, that Mike Shannon posted? Have you also forgotten that today we're in degregulated radio under corporate control?

I said you won't find "too many" of those in the business today with the same redeeming qualities of Chapman, not "you won't find any". If you want to accuse me of being insulting, I would suggest you direct your energy towards those responsible for the deregulated mess that makes up what we know as radio today.

:

R

 

[SmokeRing]

I think there are a couple of things that divide people over Chapman.

1. The way he treated people behind the scenes. Some people got over it. Some didn't. You can trade the stories amongst yourselves.

2. His target demo. While there were many times in his career that he had nice 25-54 people numbers, he was a female targeted personality. I dare say that a lot of the radio pros on this board got into the biz to Rock. Ron didn't rock. So automatically a lot of people just aren't going to think much of a guy who never spun Zeppelin. Any way you slice it, living on Michael Bolton and Barbra Streisand isn't seen as "cool" to a large percentage of people in radio.

Also, consider that Dallas programmers didn't truly target males properly until Howard arrived with the template. Before Howard, it was apparent that a lot of stations got their male listeners by default. Bo and Jim seemed like soft rock deejays in comparison to Howard. Once male-targeted radio really amped up in this market, Bo and Jim lost their gigs, and KVIL was firmly marginalized to the female demo. Even 92.5 had to resort to heavy rotation of soft Elton John and Billy Joel to briefly spike up the ratings. Eventually, the Ticket and 105.3 emerged to dominate the male demos.

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

And uh, Laffer... I think you find even less people in this market that has something just outlandishly bad to say about Chapman. Good for you. You can count people in other markets that are better than Ron. But, in this market, that's like saying you have a girlfriend... in Canada.

This is our market, and we tend to be shortsighted about things 'round these yonder parts.

Besides, what's it say about a man that controlled how many demos again? When he left, the demos scattered and more radio stations arrived to capture them. That sir, is moxie. That all, is legend.

 

[Steve Eberhart]

I think there are a couple of things that divide people over Chapman.

1. The way he treated people behind the scenes. Some people got over it. Some didn't. You can trade the stories amongst yourselves.

2. His target demo. While there were many times in his career that he had nice 25-54 people numbers, he was a female targeted personality. I dare say that a lot of the radio pros on this board got into the biz to Rock. Ron didn't rock. So automatically a lot of people just aren't going to think much of a guy who never spun Zeppelin. Any way you slice it, living on Michael Bolton and Barbra Streisand isn't seen as "cool" to a large percentage of people in radio.

Also, consider that Dallas programmers didn't truly target males properly until Howard arrived with the template. Before Howard, it was apparent that a lot of stations got their male listeners by default. Bo and Jim seemed like soft rock deejays in comparison to Howard. Once male-targeted radio really amped up in this market, Bo and Jim lost their gigs, and KVIL was firmly marginalized to the female demo. Even 92.5 had to resort to heavy rotation of soft Elton John and Billy Joel to briefly spike up the ratings. Eventually, the Ticket and 105.3 emerged to dominate the male demos.

JUST FOR THE RECORD....KVIL did play Led Zeppelin! Dyer Maker was in current rotation in 1973...believe it or not...and YES, I have tape to prove it...AND the actual 45 from which it was played. It was in a stack of old records they had played that I found in my office when I was music director in the early 90's. And when you think about it, it epitomized the KVIL music philosophy, which was, every song survives on its own merit - no matter who recorded it. Dyer Maker was fairly "pop flavored" and not all that heavy, so it worked...

 

[SmokeRing]

JUST FOR THE RECORD....KVIL did play Led Zeppelin!

Nice factoid!

And here I was thinking the hardest thing Chapman ever played was "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go."

;D

 

[MikeShannon914]

Old legend had it that KVIL had a heavily-edited version of "Stairway to Heaven" that played perhaps once or twice over the years. (KVIL's editing = take out any heavy/rough/jammin'/rockin' sections...so that doesn't leave much.) If I remember correctly, Larry Dixon confirmed this on a class field trip to KVIL c. 1983 at the old Capitol Bank building.

 

[Steve Eberhart]

We did edit some songs for screaming guitar solo's, irritating parts and screeching vocals at times...whatever was felt might otherwise make a song unacceptable to the sensitive female ear. (Studies have shown that the typical female ear reacts differently to piercing high pitch sound than a male ear.)

Some of those edits actually were used by the record companies to put out an "AC mix" years ago. Now they issue every imaginable version, AC mix, Hip-hop mix, CHR mix, Lite mix, we don't care what it sounds like just as long as you play it mix...

I am pretty certain "Stairway to Heaven" was not played at KVIL in any sort of normal rotation, certainly not after 1978 when I began there. It DID air once that I am aware of because I came on right after it. On a Sunday afternoon on Mark Elliots "Weekly Top 30" program. They were doing the Top 30 all time hits or somesuch and it ranked #1 and was played as the finale to the show that week.

The only station I am aware of that edited "Stairway to Heaven" was WLS.

Side note: Mark Elliot of KHJ fame was almost hired at KVIL when Larry Dixon was brought in to replace Bill Gardner in Fall 1975!

 

[JayDavis]

As I've said many times, I'm an outsider looking in.

I wasn't a huge Ron Chapman fan, at all. He mainly was geared towards the female listening audience, yet, you'll have
to admit, that the stunt he pulled off by asking people to just mail in $$$$ to KVIL was pretty impressive. He didn't give
a reason for asking people to send in $$$$, but they did.

I don't think any other DJ in the DFW market had/has that kind of influence, ever.

 

[ropertex]

Too bad no one in this business today has the backbone to run their own ship.

I remember reading a article in a trade magazine circa 1978 that Chapman even had
"annoying" national and local spots remade by the KVIL staff.

 

[nuzguy]

On a national radio show for which Chapman was interviewed, he said audience members trusted the station not to do anything foolish with the money. It was later divided among a number of charities even after Chapman said on-air, "Stop. That's it. And with that we still received several thousand more dollars." All because Chapman one morning said, "Send us $25." BTW, it all amounted to almost $250,000 before all was said and done.

 

[Steve Eberhart]

Spots that didn't fit the format were OFTEN redone with in-house talent, or not accepted at all. Ask any of the sales people from that time how much money THAT policy cost them! Yes, they turned business away many times for that reason. Some would argue that the relaxation of that policy was ONE of the reasons things began a path that still hasn't been resurrected.


...and it was $20 for the record, and Ron offered to return anyone's money if they asked. A very few did, but not many.

One of the more interesting facts about that particular promotion was the fact that since nothing was offered upon the invitation to send the money in...the easiest prospect for the hundreds of thousands of dollars collected was to simply KEEP it...giving it to a charity or throwing a party or anything else came with issues...keeping it would not have. Of course they didn't keep it but donated to many charities that continue to benefit from it today.

 

[ropertex]

I've heard that Ron was very difficult to work with. People have said that he would yell and scream at his staff and treat them very badly. Is any of this true, and are there other interesting stories that you would like to share?

So were Lucille Ball and Milton Berle. But so are a lot of other people who didn't produce excellence.

 

[Robert Bass]

Interesting post Steve. Kind of makes me wonder if Ron watched the film FM. For those who have never seen it, the topic of spots that don't fit the format was one of the scenes.

R

 

[nuzguy]

You are correct concerning the amouint of money--it was $20, instead of $25. My error. Everyone agrees, though, that for those who sent in $20 it was all about trust. Chapman simply said, "Send us money." And the people did.

 

[jd]

Spots that didn't fit the format were OFTEN redone with in-house talent, or not accepted at all. Ask any of the sales people from that time how much money THAT policy cost them!

Yes, I remember hearing some of the spots that were re-cut back then. I also recall a KVIL salesperson telling me that they were sold out virtually all the time at one point, and there was a six week waiting list. He said some "new" advertisers were relegated to the AM signal during the waiting period. For a time most of the sales staff was little more than "order takers."

And Steve, what about KVIL's use of the word "...and" during its glory days? Many, many promos began with that word. It was kind of a subliminal approach, giving some continuity (and "forward motion") during a stop-set. Personally I think stations today might consider the effectiveness of that one little word!

 

[tubetop1]

What, this this Chapman guy die or something? Why is everyone suddenly waxing nostalgic?

 

[nuzguy]

The words "Chapman" and "KVIL" are pretty much used synonamously. And both were legend in terms of innovative ways of "doing radio." Chapman's legend gets stronger as radio itself gets weaker. No, Chapman didn't die. This is just our way of remembering one who did it like it had never been done bfore...or since.

 

[Bill Cherry]

NUZ GUY, you said it best! Congratulations and thanks. To not recognize the business and air talent combination of Ron Chapman and KVIL is just foolish of those who make radio their livelihood.

As the KVIL/Chapman Team, it has not begun to be replaced.

 

[miked5551]

You can be excellent in whatever job you do without berating people and yelling at them all the time. He's lucky some employee didnt whip his a$$ after one of his well known verbal attacts.