Ron Kuby Speaks Out

[Keith321]

If it weren't for Imus .... ?

So what...?

Until last spring Imus held the chair previously occupied by people like...

So what...?

Other people also got there ahead of the I-man ...

So what...?

 

[spilot113]

Kuby got screwed. He did everything management asked of him. He delivered an audience.

Kuby did deliver the goods.

"The Goods" may have been a long term plan to Grow the show...and Kuby could not deliver the goods on that.

"The Goods" may have been to grow the audience and revenue through syndication.

And Ron Kuby could not deliver on that.

My experience in the industry tells me other factors are often at work. Like ego. Like politics.

Huh? You lefties are always quick to pull out the consipracy theories, any helicopters?

My experience in the industry says that the motivation for anything/everything in business is money.

If it's not that...it's "more money."

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Kuby got screwed. He did everything management asked of him. He delivered an audience.

Kuby did deliver the goods.

"The Goods" may have been a long term plan to Grow the show...and Kuby could not deliver the goods on that.

"The Goods" may have been to grow the audience and revenue through syndication.

And Ron Kuby could not deliver on that.

My experience in the industry tells me other factors are often at work. Like ego. Like politics.

Huh? You lefties are always quick to pull out the consipracy theories, any helicopters?

My experience in the industry says that the motivation for anything/everything in business is money.

If it's not that...it's "more money."

113: Please read the entire thread before replying.
And repeatedly and mindlessly parroting the industry line does not make it more true.

Keith: I am awed by your profound eloquence.

 

[Keith321]

Keith: I am awed by your profound eloquence.

As I am by yours. A lot of words to say nothing....

We get it....you're a liberal...you like Kuby...big bad corperations are screwing everyone...corporate executives are pushing their own political ideology...it's all a big consiracy.....yada-yada-yada....

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Keith: I am awed by your profound eloquence.

As I am by yours. A lot of words to say nothing....

We get it....you're a liberal...you like Kuby...big bad corperations are screwing everyone...corporate executives are pushing their own political ideology...it's all a big consiracy.....yada-yada-yada....

No, Keith, you don't get it. I'm not even sure you want to.

I listened to K+C only occasionally and I was not a fan of the show. I actually listened to Imus more regularly, although I didn't enjoy his show as much as I used to.

I thought Kuby was treated poorly and at the very least should have been allowed to stay the remaining month and finish the show with Sliwa.

Please review the questions I posted above:
"Why is it news/talk programming decisions are always in the direction of more neo-conservative, GOP party line political talk radio?"
"If it's only about money, why does this consistent programming move rightward keep resulting in declining revenues and Citadel's stock price going down?"

I'd be interested in your response.

I am not a liberal. I ask as a former stockholder in corporations owning radio stations (Disney and Clear Channel), who sold at a major loss. Citadel stockholders should be asking these questions, too. In the past year, Citadel stock has gone from 11 to two. Now they are unloading more stations. If you trust them so much, how much of your money have you invested in the company?

Once upon a time, William Randolph Hearst owned the largest media company in the US. The editorial pages of his newspapers and the columnists he hired were remarkably consistent in their opinions. Hearst claimed he had no agenda either.

The head of Citadel was involved in syndicating Imus at Infinity Radio.
The opinions expressed by Imus and his new boss are remarkably similar.
Conspiracy? Your words, not mine. Human nature to like a guy who agrees with you? Probably. Human nature to think what you like will make successful radio? Absolutely.

Beyond ideology, the leading talk station in the largest market has replaced a local talk show with a syndicated show. They have already done this in PM drive. The trend in this company is toward more syndicated, less local (in some markets, no local). C+K was a purely Noo Yawk kind of show; it is doubtful the show would have legs. Citadel wanted Imus for syndication. A local morning show for New York be damned. A local morning show in a bunch of other markets be damned, too. C+K are only the first morning hosts to be dumped for Imus, they are not the last.

Sorry if my posts are too long for a short attention span. If you want simple answers and sound-bites, I can see why you like right-wing talk radio.

 

[spilot113]

look what you did Keith!

you made him start all over again...with the same thing over and over!

he's going to continue over and over like a kid who wants to prove he's right!!!!

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

look what you did Keith!

you made him start all over again...with the same thing over and over!

he's going to continue over and over like a kid who wants to prove he's right!!!!

I know how much the dumb kids in class hate this sort of thing. But this is how it is in Ivy League grad schools and Mensa meetings. Of course, you wouldn't know about that.

Better hurry. They're going to start serving Kool-Aid to all the radio geeks. You wouldn't want to miss out.


PS: I am right.

 

[spilot113]

But this is how it is in Ivy League grad schools and Mensa meetings. Of course, you wouldn't know about that.

Wrong, that's how it is in the insane asylum, the Psych ward and the special ed class.

Same thing over and over...

PS: I am right.

No, you're simply stating your own opinion over and over again.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

I listened to K+C only occasionally and I was not a fan of the show. I actually listened to Imus more regularly, although I didn't enjoy his show as much as I used to.

I thought Kuby was treated poorly and at the very least should have been allowed to stay the remaining month and finish the show with Sliwa.

I'm actually surprised they kept Sliwa.

Please review the questions I posted above:
"Why is it news/talk programming decisions are always in the direction of more neo-conservative, GOP party line political talk radio?"

Because thus far....they have been the ones to get ratings. It tends to happen on television news channels too...where shows like O'Reilly have performed well...and shows like Donahue's political talk show and Geraldo's have not.

"If it's only about money, why does this consistent programming move rightward keep resulting in declining revenues and Citadel's stock price going down?"

"Right wing" programming is not what is causing declining radio revenues...its across the board. And its not limited to Citadel. Revenues at most major market Hip-Hop stations are down for the year...what the heck are you talking about???
And Citadel's stock price has VERY LITTLE to do with programming...it had much more to do with declining revenue in the industry, and the big expenditure for ABC Radio.

I am not a liberal. I ask as a former stockholder in corporations owning radio stations (Disney and Clear Channel), who sold at a major loss. Citadel stockholders should be asking these questions, too. In the past year, Citadel stock has gone from 11 to two. Now they are unloading more stations. If you trust them so much, how much of your money have you invested in the company?

They issued stock to finance the purchase. Do you understand financials at all? Ford Motor Co. stock is at $6...XM Radio is at $13.....do you really think XM is more than twice as large a company??

Once upon a time, William Randolph Hearst owned the largest media company in the US. The editorial pages of his newspapers and the columnists he hired were remarkably consistent in their opinions. Hearst claimed he had no agenda either.

Last I heard, Hearst was dead. Do you think he's back pulling strings at Citadel?

Beyond ideology, the leading talk station in the largest market has replaced a local talk show with a syndicated show. They have already done this in PM drive. The trend in this company is toward more syndicated, less local (in some markets, no local). C+K was a purely Noo Yawk kind of show; it is doubtful the show would have legs. Citadel wanted Imus for syndication. A local morning show for New York be damned. A local morning show in a bunch of other markets be damned, too. C+K are only the first morning hosts to be dumped for Imus, they are not the last.

Seriously?? Imus is local...it IS NY based. Imus has been a local fixture in NY radio for decades. All of a sudden, because his show is carried by other stations, he's "not NY"?? That's bizarre thinking. C+K was an okay show...but its not Imus right there (with Gambling) on one station (660) in one time slot for 30 years (Harry Harrison didn't even make it THAT long) . No one really talked about C+K "in the streets" Imus DOES generate that buzz...and revenue.
Bottom line is...morning show hosts change.....

Sorry if my posts are too long for a short attention span. If you want simple answers and sound-bites, I can see why you like right-wing talk radio.

Are left-wing shows a bit more long winded?

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

I listened to K+C only occasionally and I was not a fan of the show. I actually listened to Imus more regularly, although I didn't enjoy his show as much as I used to.

I thought Kuby was treated poorly and at the very least should have been allowed to stay the remaining month and finish the show with Sliwa.

I'm actually surprised they kept Sliwa.

Please review the questions I posted above:
"Why is it news/talk programming decisions are always in the direction of more neo-conservative, GOP party line political talk radio?"

Because thus far....they have been the ones to get ratings. It tends to happen on television news channels too...where shows like O'Reilly have performed well...and shows like Donahue's political talk show and Geraldo's have not.

"If it's only about money, why does this consistent programming move rightward keep resulting in declining revenues and Citadel's stock price going down?"

"Right wing" programming is not what is causing declining radio revenues...its across the board. And its not limited to Citadel. Revenues at most major market Hip-Hop stations are down for the year...what the heck are you talking about???
And Citadel's stock price has VERY LITTLE to do with programming...it had much more to do with declining revenue in the industry, and the big expenditure for ABC Radio.

I am not a liberal. I ask as a former stockholder in corporations owning radio stations (Disney and Clear Channel), who sold at a major loss. Citadel stockholders should be asking these questions, too. In the past year, Citadel stock has gone from 11 to two. Now they are unloading more stations. If you trust them so much, how much of your money have you invested in the company?

They issued stock to finance the purchase. Do you understand financials at all? Ford Motor Co. stock is at $6...XM Radio is at $13.....do you really think XM is more than twice as large a company??

Once upon a time, William Randolph Hearst owned the largest media company in the US. The editorial pages of his newspapers and the columnists he hired were remarkably consistent in their opinions. Hearst claimed he had no agenda either.

Last I heard, Hearst was dead. Do you think he's back pulling strings at Citadel?

Beyond ideology, the leading talk station in the largest market has replaced a local talk show with a syndicated show. They have already done this in PM drive. The trend in this company is toward more syndicated, less local (in some markets, no local). C+K was a purely Noo Yawk kind of show; it is doubtful the show would have legs. Citadel wanted Imus for syndication. A local morning show for New York be damned. A local morning show in a bunch of other markets be damned, too. C+K are only the first morning hosts to be dumped for Imus, they are not the last.

Seriously?? Imus is local...it IS NY based. Imus has been a local fixture in NY radio for decades. All of a sudden, because his show is carried by other stations, he's "not NY"?? That's bizarre thinking. C+K was an okay show...but its not Imus right there (with Gambling) on one station (660) in one time slot for 30 years (Harry Harrison didn't even make it THAT long) . No one really talked about C+K "in the streets" Imus DOES generate that buzz...and revenue.
Bottom line is...morning show hosts change.....

Sorry if my posts are too long for a short attention span. If you want simple answers and sound-bites, I can see why you like right-wing talk radio.

Are left-wing shows a bit more long winded?

USSR: Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Just a few points:

At the time Phil Donahue's show was canceled, his was the highest rated show on MSNBC. Reportedly GE/NBC management was concerned about a liberal, possibly anti-war, host after 9-11.

Imus' show is done in New York but it's not done for New York. It's a national show.

Of course Hearst does not pull the strings at Citadel but in his day he pulled the strings in his newspaper chain. He promoted his own financial interests, his mistress and his political ideas. I cite him as an example of it's not just about money. Contrary to what they told me in econ 101, people do do things for other reasons. Most people who go into radio could make more money doing something else. Radio people should know better than others that things are not always about money.

Thanks for an interesting exchange.

 

[Keith321]

PS: I am right.

Gee, you've gotten the opinions of many radio professionals, including a vice-president at ABC....and still want to insist only you understand it all, huh?

At the time Phil Donahue's show was canceled, his was the highest rated show on MSNBC.

It was also the most expensive show on MSNBC....and was in last place.

That wasn't good enough. Simple as that.

Reportedly GE/NBC management was concerned about a liberal, possibly anti-war, host after 9-11.

"Reportedly"? Maybe you could say "speculation exists".

But then again, it's more conspiracy theories. Things you'd like to believe with no proof.

Imus' show is done in New York but it's not done for New York. It's a national show.

However, Imus is a New York icon.

Of course Hearst does not pull the strings at Citadel but in his day he pulled the strings in his newspaper chain. He promoted his own financial interests, his mistress and his political ideas. I cite him as an example of it's not just about money.

Yeah, so you saw the movie. So what? How long ago was this?

If you think this is happening today, then post some proof....or else it's another conspiracy theory....just something else you'd like to believe because you saw it portrayed in a movie.

I cite him as an example of it's not just about money. Contrary to what they told me in econ 101, people do do things for other reasons. Most people who go into radio could make more money doing something else. Radio people should know better than others that things are not always about money.

Please name me someone who is working in radio for ideological reasons and not for the money?

[cricket sounds]

Oh, that's right...Air America!

Hows that working out for ya?

 

[Phil Boyce]

Julius: Again I feel bad for you because here you are defending Curtis and Kuby, a show I created, nurtured, fought for and then had to take away. I put my job on the line to get Curtis and Kuby the morning show. I told the GM at the time that if they did not make it and had to be fired, then fire me too. That was 8 years ago and I am still here. But, buddy, you have to listen to me and accept reality. Let me try again to explain this:

If Citadel has no political agenda, as you say, why is it news/talk programming decisions are always in the direction of more neo-conservative, GOP party line political talk radio?

I am not sure what decisions you are talking about. If you are talking about C and K being replaced by Don Imus (which is what I thought this was about) you should feel silly for suggesting we moved in a more neo-con, GOP party line political talk radio show. Imus calls Bush a moron and Cheney a war criminal. You can't be serious. I am not sure what other decisions you are talking about, but my company is notorious for allowing LOCAL management to make their own decisions and then live with them so there is no company political agenda. None. Nada...except to make more money.

If it's only about money, why does this consistent programming move rightward keep resulting in declining revenues and Citadel's stock price going down?

Again I am not sure what you are talking about. WABC doubled it's ad rates overnight with Imus. The entire radio industry is going through a recesssion, but the Citadel NewsTalk stations are usually out performing their markets. The Citadel stock has nothing to do with right wing programming on the talk stations. Again...NOTHING to do with it.

If no political agenda, why was the token liberal the only person let go?

I explained this to you in another thread. Let me try again. Ron Kuby was let go, and sent packing a month before the others, because I had no room for him at WABC. I could keep Curtis, or Kuby. I chose Curtis who was has more equity in the market, and at the station. It was not because Citadel wants to push the talk stations more to the right. It just doesn't.

Citadel is controlled by Wall Street investment bankers (Frostmann Little - see "Barbarians at the Gate"), Wall Street investment players have been the dominant force in the Republican Party since the days of the robber barons. At least the Green Brothers admit they have an agenda (like it or not). If the people you work for are not making programming decisions based on an "agenda," at the very least their political predispositions seem to be clouding their judgment.

Again, what decision are you talking about. If you are talking about Imus he is not a right winger, so your point is completely moot. If there is some other decisions you are referring to, please let me in on it and I will try to respond. To suggest the Imus decisions was driven by right wingers on the board is ludicrous. Imus is not a right winger.

And whether Imus brings in more revenue or not, the trend to more syndication, automation and voice tracking will continue (a trend you've expressed approval of in other posts). I doubt whether anybody doing a morning show on one of your talk stations feels much job security right now, waiting to see if the I-man takes his job, too.

They should feel job security if they are doing their job, getting ratings, and making money for their station. If they are not...then yes they should be insecure. Curtis and Kuby were successful, but in NYC we can make more money with Imus. If we don't do that, then yes this was a failure.

As for your claim that I have expressed approval for more syndication, automation and voice tracking, that is just a complete fabrication. I am not in favor of automation and voice tracking and I think it is damaging a bunch of stations that go to it. As for more syndication, I have shows that local stations want. I am not going to appologize for that. But I have also said if a station can find a live and local host better than my guys, then they should go for that. It is not my fault that stations want my shows...and are willing to put them on their stations. I am in the radio business. It's still a great business, no matter what anybody says.

Nobody has to fear syndication. They should fear mediocrity. But now I am repeating myself.

pb

 

[AndrewLawson]

In short, it's not about politics, it's about money. Farid and Imus make lots of it. Farid gets a $60 million bonus for making the Citadel-ABC deal, Imus gets $5 million a year plus bonus money for doing mornings. Phil gets to lie in the bed that Farid made for him by signing Imus, doing his best to look comfortable lying in it. It's the way the game is played whether it's market #1 or #50, only the stakes are higher. Only time will tell if Farid's gambit pays off. Game on.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

In short, it's not about politics, it's about money. Farid and Imus make lots of it. Farid gets a $60 million bonus for making the Citadel-ABC deal, Imus gets $5 million a year plus bonus money for doing mornings. Phil gets to lie in the bed that Farid made for him by signing Imus, doing his best to look comfortable lying in it. It's the way the game is played whether it's market #1 or #50, only the stakes are higher. Only time will tell if Farid's gambit pays off. Game on.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Why drag in a supposed Farid bonus and Imus salary? And Phil is a pro, he'll do more "look comfortable" he'll thrive with a heritage morning show.

 

[LIradiofan226]

I explained this to you in another thread. Let me try again. Ron Kuby was let go, and sent packing a month before the others, because I had no room for him at WABC. I could keep Curtis, or Kuby. I chose Curtis who was has more equity in the market, and at the station.


Sorry Mr. Boyce, I can't say that I find any nobility in your keeping Curtis around. You take away his show and then force him to come in for one hour at the station at 5am forcing him to wake up at 3am to do only an hour-long program. I don't quibble with your decision to bring Imus aboard which appears to be a smart business move but to punish Curtis in this manner appears to be classless and sadistic. That's just my opinion.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

Please name me someone who is working in radio for ideological reasons and not for the money?

[cricket sounds]

Oh, that's right...Air America!

Hows that working out for ya?

What about the people at WBAI? Blechhh. :-X

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Please name me someone who is working in radio for ideological reasons and not for the money?

The two are not mutually exclusive.
People who work in radio mostly do what they are told (like anywhere else).
People who run radio often think they can make money and promote some agenda ... or that they can make money by promoting some agenda.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Please name me someone who is working in radio for ideological reasons and not for the money?

The two are not mutually exclusive.
People who work in radio mostly do what they are told (like anywhere else).
People who run radio often think they can make money and promote some agenda ... or that they can make money by promoting some agenda.

Well...when its a public company (like Citadel)....that agenda best be "make money for the shareholders"...when its not, often there will be somebody else to "run" it, pretty quick.

 

[newhampshiredude]

I explained this to you in another thread. Let me try again. Ron Kuby was let go, and sent packing a month before the others, because I had no room for him at WABC. I could keep Curtis, or Kuby. I chose Curtis who was has more equity in the market, and at the station.


Sorry Mr. Boyce, I can't say that I find any nobility in your keeping Curtis around. You take away his show and then force him to come in for one hour at the station at 5am forcing him to wake up at 3am to do only an hour-long program. I don't quibble with your decision to bring Imus aboard which appears to be a smart business move but to punish Curtis in this manner appears to be classless and sadistic. That's just my opinion.

That I can agree with. I understand that Phil Boyce, the greatest talk radio programmer in history, would feel it necessary to keep Sliwa around, but this 5AM thing is a little ridiculous. A weekend show may have been better (maybe on Sunday, where the daytime is terrible and the nights are outstanding w/ John Batchelor and Bill Cunningham), or the pairing on Gambling and Sliwa (or maybe John and Curtis).

I also defend Mr. Boyce when he says that programmers want his shows on their stations. Doesn't that signify what Phil Bouce has done w/ WABC: made it the base for talk radio around the country? Isn't this a good thing?

The bet Julius just wishes he was as smart as Mr. Boye.

btw I am a strong conservative and Imus fan. Radio is about entertainment, and that's what Imus is.

 

[AndrewLawson]

In short, it's not about politics, it's about money.... Only time will tell if Farid's gambit pays off. Game on.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Why drag in a supposed Farid bonus and Imus salary? And Phil is a pro, he'll do more than "look comfortable," he'll thrive with a heritage morning show.

To answer the question, yes, I do know what I'm talking about, from a number of vantage points. Bonus and salary figures were mentioned because there isn't a Citadel employee from Portland to San Francisco who isn't following what's going on at WABC. Indirectly, it affects all employees of the company.