Rumor: KLOK/1170 Sold

[BossRadioDJ]

Rather than rehashing it all here, I'll point you to my blog, then back here, for this groovy little rumor and some thoughts:

The rumor being bandied about last night in the high-altitude press box at HP Pavilion in San Jose was that KLOK/1170 has been/is on the verge of/might be sold to Salem Communications by Univision.

http://www.bayarearadio.org/blog/2008/11/rumor-salem-buying-klok1170.html

 

[Madmansam]

Wow!!! After a little more than 20 years of being SPANISH LANGUAGE, If this rumor is true, AM 1170 returning back to ENGLISH LANGUAGE! Of course, It won't return back to the old YES/NO CLOCK RADIO of yesteryears but still kind of a historic occasion of sorts. I wonder if KDOW-1220 will be moving to 1170? Or will SALEM maintain the SPANISH TALK of KLOK on 1170 or move that to 1220? Or will they just blow up 1170 and create a new format? Maybe CONSERVATIVE TALK (A Salem Specialty) or how about a long shot like ADULT STANDARDS? That is if SALEM does that format elsewhere?

 

[BossRadioDJ]

As I noted briefly in the blog post, there are a few scenarios to consider *IF* this sale actually takes place:

* KLOK is San Jose's only 50,000-watt AM radio station, and Salem has had problems with NIMBY issues in trying to get the KDOW/1220 transmitter moved to Hayward (along the Bay shore near the San Mateo Bridge).

* Salem buying KLOK/1170 would open the possibility of having the KDOW/1220 signal "diplexed" on the 1170 towers in San Jose without having to build a new transmitter site in Hayward, and without having to fight the environmental issues...

* Or they could move the current KLOK Spanish-language programming from 1170 to 1220 and not do the upgrade to 50,000 watts on 1220 that they had approval from the FCC to do.

* Or they could simply move KDOW's programming to 1170 and shut off the little 1220 transmitter over in Palo Alto...

* Or it's just a lousy rumor, and Salem is simply trying to get us talking about them before they make an announcement that they are switching to solar power. Has anybody checked to see if kdow-fm.com has been registered?

 

[davideduardo]

* Or it's just a lousy rumor, and Salem is simply trying to get us talking about them before they make an announcement that they are switching to solar power. Has anybody checked to see if kdow-fm.com has been registered?

Now that gave me a needed laugh!

 

[DanStrassberg]

Wow!!! After a little more than 20 years of being SPANISH LANGUAGE, If this rumor is true, AM 1170 returning back to ENGLISH LANGUAGE! Of course, It won't return back to the old YES/NO CLOCK RADIO of yesteryears but still kind of a historic occasion of sorts. I wonder if KDOW-1220 will be moving to 1170? Or will SALEM maintain the SPANISH TALK of KLOK on 1170 or move that to 1220? Or will they just blow up 1170 and create a new format? Maybe CONSERVATIVE TALK (A Salem Specialty) or how about a long shot like ADULT STANDARDS? That is if SALEM does that format elsewhere?

Salem has been developing Spanish-language religion as a format and has it on the air in at least three markets at the moment. I'm in Boston and it's on Salem's AM 1150 here. I think they have it on 1360 in Tacoma WA also. Salem has been dumping properties (in at least one case, a whole cluster), but I believe that in the right market with the right signal at the right price, they may still be able to find the $$$.

As for 1170 and 1220 diplexing--not likely. The stations are closer in frequency to each other than has generally been considered technically feasible for diplexing. If there is enough land at the 1170 site, co-location of 1220 at that site might be possible, however. Co-location would not involve any shared towers, but would require enough land to construct (presumably four) new towers and a local zoning board that would approve the construction of those towers.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

* Or they could simply move KDOW's programming to 1170 and shut off the little 1220 transmitter over in Palo Alto...

I highly doubt that will happen.. to just turn it off would be stupid

 

[DanStrassberg]

As for 1170 and 1220 diplexing--not likely. The stations are closer in frequency to each other than has generally been considered technically feasible for diplexing. If there is enough land at the 1170 site, co-location of 1220 at that site might be possible, however. Co-location would not involve any shared towers, but would require enough land to construct (presumably four) new towers and a local zoning board that would approve the construction of those towers.

I forgot to mention that Salem owns 1170 in San Diego. Some changes to KLOK's night pattern might either reduce KCBQ's NIF, allowing an increase in coverage and/or an increase in the night power of the San Diego station. Salem has done such things in the past when money was more readily available. The biggest project by far was a massive reconfiguration of the Honolulu AM dial to reduce interference to and from many of Salem's west coast AMs including two in the San Diego market. A lot of these changes have not been completed, however. I don't know whether that was because Salem ran out of $$$ or for other reasons, such as inability to obtain building permits from the localities involved.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

If there is enough land at the 1170 site, co-location of 1220 at that site might be possible, however. Co-location would not involve any shared towers, but would require enough land to construct (presumably four) new towers and a local zoning board that would approve the construction of those towers.

Enough land? Not a problem.

Here's a composite aerial view of the KLOK acreage, once known as "Radio Park":

http://www.sfradiocity.com/klok/photos/klok-1170_xmtr-site_2004.png

That's South King Road at the right.

If it's up to a local zoning board ... there might be issues. This was once a vast agricultural area. Now, much like the original KEEN/1370 site on Old Oakland Road (gone for a decade or so) and the longtime site of KLIV/1590 on Story Road, San Jose has grown up around these once-rural facilities.

Remember the difficulty that arose a few years ago when KYCY/1550 (under Westinghouse) (?) tried to move to the Fremont/Milpitas border, near the Bay, then proposed shacking up (their transmitters, that is) with KLOK. I think the response from uppity neighbors was -- and this is not a direct quote -- "Oh, hell no."

Just a thought: if someone can find the concrete bases where the late-period KQW/early-period KCBS transmitter towers once stood in the picturesque but fragrant Alviso swamps, they might be able to repurpose them...

 

[DanStrassberg]

Enough land? Not a problem.

Here's a composite aerial view of the KLOK acreage, once known as "Radio Park":

http://www.sfradiocity.com/klok/photos/klok-1170_xmtr-site_2004.png

After looking at the nice photo, I'm not as sangine as you are that there is enough land. At a minimum, I'd guess that at least one tower would have to be diplexed, and it would likely have to be a high-power tower (the middle one). That spells potential problems. Also, the site appears to be at least partially surrounded by a residential neighborhood. Are you aware of KRKO (Everett WA's) travails? And those of a proposed AM 1520 to be licensed to Snohomish WA that would co-locate with KRKO? I think the likelihood of co-locating 1170 and 1220 at the 1170 site within the remaining lifetime of the AM service in the US are minimal.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Enough land? Not a problem.

Here's a composite aerial view of the KLOK acreage, once known as "Radio Park":

http://www.sfradiocity.com/klok/photos/klok-1170_xmtr-site_2004.png

After looking at the nice photo, I'm not as sangine as you are that there is enough land. At a minimum, I'd guess that at least one tower would have to be diplexed, and it would likely have to be a high-power tower (the middle one). That spells potential problems. Also, the site appears to be at least partially surrounded by a residential neighborhood. Are you aware of KRKO (Everett WA's) travails? And those of a proposed AM 1520 to be licensed to Snohomish WA that would co-locate with KRKO? I think the likelihood of co-locating 1170 and 1220 at the 1170 site within the remaining lifetime of the AM service in the US are minimal.

ANd to diplex an 1170 and 1220? Holy batman... that would be one expensive MESS to do. It's usually reccomended to have at least 180khz between stations you're diplexing, i've seen it as close as 80khz (Orlando, FL) and that was an absolute disaster.

 

[davideduardo]

ANd to diplex an 1170 and 1220? Holy batman... that would be one expensive MESS to do. It's usually reccomended to have at least 180khz between stations you're diplexing, i've seen it as close as 80khz (Orlando, FL) and that was an absolute disaster.

Yeah, the proximity requires such high Q circuits that the stations sound telephone quality.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

ANd to diplex an 1170 and 1220? Holy batman... that would be one expensive MESS to do. It's usually reccomended to have at least 180khz between stations you're diplexing, i've seen it as close as 80khz (Orlando, FL) and that was an absolute disaster.

Yeah, the proximity requires such high Q circuits that the stations sound telephone quality.

And the Orlando, FL diplex still continues to this day as an utter diaster.

As well, the closer you get frequency wise... the more likely stations are to bleed into each other (hearing one on another's frequency) and creating harmonics.

The Orlando, FL stations created a harmonic on 1760khz that was heard up in PENSACOLA!!

 

[DavidKaye]

Wow!!! After a little more than 20 years of being SPANISH LANGUAGE, [....]

Do you realize that this past format makes KLOK the most successful it's ever been? No other programming on KLOK has lasted as long. When I first discovered it, KLOK was a brokered station running everything from daily Portuguese newscasts to a morning polka party show. Then they went MOR. Then they went oldies. Then they went "yes/no". Then...and it goes on and on. I don't think any other format lasted more than 5 years at a time.

 

[DaveBayArea]

Do you realize that this past format makes KLOK the most successful it's ever been? No other programming on KLOK has lasted as long. When I first discovered it, KLOK was a brokered station running everything from daily Portuguese newscasts to a morning polka party show. Then they went MOR. Then they went oldies. Then they went "yes/no". Then...and it goes on and on. I don't think any other format lasted more than 5 years at a time.

While it's always been Spanish, I think it's been different formats. I might be confusing them with someone else, but I thought they used to play rancheras.

Dave B.

 

[davideduardo]

While it's always been Spanish, I think it's been different formats. I might be confusing them with someone else, but I thought they used to play rancheras.

The station, under Danny Villanueva (1988) and Entravision (starting when Athena sofios Marks bought it in '89) and through 2003 was regional Mexican, a format that includes ranchera, norteña and other styles. From 2004 through 2005, it was Mexican Tropical (Cumbia) and then in '06 it went mostly talk.

 

[DanStrassberg]

ANd to diplex an 1170 and 1220? Holy batman... that would be one expensive MESS to do. It's usually reccomended to have at least 180khz between stations you're diplexing, i've seen it as close as 80khz (Orlando, FL) and that was an absolute disaster.

I've always heard that the frequency difference in kHz isn't exactly the issue. Rather, it's the RATIO of the frequency difference to the higher carrier frequency that determines the complexity of the filtering required and the probability of success. A time-honored rule of thumb was that the frequency difference should always exceed 10% of the higher carrier frequency. But that rule was broken almost from the beginning of diplexes. I've been told that many (like 70 or more) years ago, 560 and 610 in SF were diplexed. The percentage difference was only ~8.2%. In San Jose 1370 and 1500 are diplexed into a three or four-tower array, and both are reasonably high-powered stations. The difference is only ~8.67%. In Seattle, 820 and 950, both 50 kW by day, are diplexed into a three-tower array. The difference is ~13.7%, which is greater than 10% but it may be the closest frequency spacing for two directional 50 kW stations in the US. I believe the closest-spaced diplex in the US is two low-power ND stations in Santa Barbara on 1290 and 1340--3.73%.

Honolulu must be the AM multiplex capital of the world. I say multiplex rather than diplex because most of the multiplexes are triplexes and there may be a quadriplex or two. Many of these stations run 10 kW. At least, AFAIK, no directionals are involved. A lot of the Honolulu stations that share towers are quite close in frequency, although I don't believe that any are as close as 3.73%.

Here in Boston, three stations, one 50 kW-U DA-2 on 1200, one 25 kW-D/17 kW-N DA-2 on 1330, and one 20 kW-U DA-1 on 1600 are now multiplexed into a five-tower array. IIRC, the third station (the one on 1200) went on the air from the new facility at the beginning of September. None of the stations is yet operating at full-power but the setup appears to be working. The smaller of the frequency differences is a bit less than 10% and considerably less than 180 kHz.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

ANd to diplex an 1170 and 1220? Holy batman... that would be one expensive MESS to do. It's usually reccomended to have at least 180khz between stations you're diplexing, i've seen it as close as 80khz (Orlando, FL) and that was an absolute disaster.

I've always heard that the frequency difference in kHz isn't exactly the issue. Rather, it's the RATIO of the frequency difference to the higher carrier frequency that determines the complexity of the filtering required and the probability of success. A time-honored rule of thumb was that the frequency difference should always exceed 10% of the higher carrier frequency. But that rule was broken almost from the beginning of diplexes. I've been told that many (like 70 or more) years ago, 560 and 610 in SF were diplexed. The percentage difference was only ~8.2%. In San Jose 1370 and 1500 are diplexed into a three or four-tower array, and both are reasonably high-powered stations. The difference is only ~8.67%. In Seattle, 820 and 950, both 50 kW by day, are diplexed into a three-tower array. The difference is ~13.7%, which is greater than 10% but it may be the closest frequency spacing for two directional 50 kW stations in the US. I believe the closest-spaced diplex in the US is two low-power ND stations in Santa Barbara on 1290 and 1340--3.73%.

Honolulu must be the AM multiplex capital of the world. I say multiplex rather than diplex because most of the multiplexes are triplexes and there may be a quadriplex or two. Many of these stations run 10 kW. At least, AFAIK, no directionals are involved. A lot of the Honolulu stations that share towers are quite close in frequency, although I don't believe that any are as close as 3.73%.

Here in Boston, three stations, one 50 kW-U DA-2 on 1200, one 25 kW-D/17 kW-N DA-2 on 1330, and one 20 kW-U DA-1 on 1600 are now multiplexed into a five-tower array. IIRC, the third station (the one on 1200) went on the air from the new facility at the beginning of September. None of the stations is yet operating at full-power but the setup appears to be working. The smaller of the frequency differences is a bit less than 10% and considerably less than 180 kHz.

I'm quite aware of the Boston situation... and I'm very aware the situation and multiplexes in Hawaii.

However, I don't think there are any quadriplexes in Hawaii.. but I can check with my friend.

I guess it also depends on the quality of the work too.

 

[DanStrassberg]

I'm quite aware of the Boston situation... and I'm very aware the situation and multiplexes in Hawaii.

However, I don't think there are any quadriplexes in Hawaii.. but I can check with my friend.

I guess it also depends on the quality of the work too.

Oh, and I didn't think of 1020 and 1150 in LA. Same 130-kHz frequency difference as 820 and 950 in Seattle but a smaller percentage difference (11.3%). Like the Seattle pair, the LA pair are both 50 kW by day (but unlike Seattle, the LA station that is not 50 kW by night almost is). Also the array is five towers vs three in Seattle and the setup with the half-wave towers surrounded by a huge one-story warehouse with the ground radials on the roof is really unconventional--ground-breaking, you might say. (And if you won't say it, I will;>)