• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Rumor Mill: WROC-AM Dumping Progressive Talk?

mimic001 said:
According to a reliable source:

It will be flipping to an all-sports format, with ESPN as the lead network. They aren't sure about keeping Mike and Mike, which is a viable property, or trying to get a local morning personality. This will also leave WHTK (CC's 1280) without ESPN programming.

There is a strong probability, as one poster had mentioned, that some simulcasting with 550 WGR in Buffalo will be taking place. Down the road, they will hope to attract a local TV sportscaster to provide local talk.

Would be a good move. WHTK uses mainly Fox Sports Radio anyway, so they could plug in Steve Czyban (which is a 6-9am show anyway) in Mike and Mike's slot, and use FSR for weekend programming. Unless WHTK wants to move John DiTullio into morning drive and move something else into 9-noon.

Probably would be a 24/7 ESPN radio simulcast early on, until they can either get local sportcasters or simulcast WGR (especially during Sabres season)
 
mimic001 said:
According to a reliable source:

It will be flipping to an all-sports format, with ESPN as the lead network. They aren't sure about keeping Mike and Mike, which is a viable property, or trying to get a local morning personality. This will also leave WHTK (CC's 1280) without ESPN programming.

There is a strong probability, as one poster had mentioned, that some simulcasting with 550 WGR in Buffalo will be taking place. Down the road, they will hope to attract a local TV sportscaster to provide local talk.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong in this post. Thank you.

Now, I believe that WACK (1420) runs ESPN programming on weekends. WACK is considered a Rochester market station, no? If those things are true, then, WROC can't grab the ESPN afiliation, that is, unless some deal is worked out with Robert Funtner so he can find alternate programming.

--The Radio Kid
(AKA Oswego Jeremy, as nicknamed by George of the Radio Racket.)
My email: [email protected].
 
WACK is out here in Newark, so I dont think they are considered in the primary Rochester market. I dont think the signal makes it to Rochester.
 
theradiokid said:
Now, I believe that WACK (1420) runs ESPN programming on weekends. WACK is considered a Rochester market station, no? If those things are true, then, WROC can't grab the ESPN afiliation, that is, unless some deal is worked out with Robert Funtner so he can find alternate programming.

ESPN could probably pull that affiliation from WACK fairly easily. If WROC agrees to carry ESPN all week and weekends that might be all that it takes to make it happen.
 
Assuming the switch to All Sports rumor is true....

I remember in the mid-90s, AM990 went all sports, mostly off satellite(they were still Warm's sister station at that time -- can't even remember who owned them at that time.) As I recall the ratings were close to a zero. And this was on a station with a much stronger signal than AM 950(which is both 1kw and highly directional day and night). Why would one think All Sports would work now on a station you can't pick up at night in the west end of nearby Chili?

AM 950 got decent numbers(considering their circumstances) when they were running Standards(AM Only). Dropping that format in 2000 to simulcast BBF(after that station was moved from 98.9 to the weaker 93.3 frequency) most likely was a fatal blow.

How about keeping Progressive Talk and doing what they should have done 4 years ago - try and set up a trade or partial trade with City(local alt newspaper) and get the word out to the local Progressive community.
 
Follow the Money

cee said:
How about keeping Progressive Talk and doing what they should have done 4 years ago - try and set up a trade or partial trade with City(local alt newspaper) and get the word out to the local Progressive community.

Sports pays better. The number of sponsors that want to be on board with sports far outweighs the number who want to be associated with ANY political point of view.
 
Whatever happens, I seriously doubt any money will be spent to program it or promote it. It's radio-station-in-a-closet operations like these that drive people to XM or Sirius in the first place. At least then you'll get a better sounding signal and it won't be pre-empted for sports. Hell, if FM IBOC ever becomes relevant, they could just put the Air America and Jones satellite feeds on one of the digi-mini stations and no one would be any wiser.

I think political talk is a viable format, but you have to have some connection to the local community and not just flip a switch and let the satellite feed run. WROC's ratings with the mop-up grade B leftover conservative talk hosts were just as low as the shows they run now. No local connection, no promotion, no reason anyone would think the station was even in Rochester. Running TV audio for a newscast doesn't cut it either. WHTK's Hot Talk format was largely the same thing as well.

I honestly doubt they will do any better running sports. Again, it's yet another radio station with nobody home, and folks will realize it the first time their favorite game goes silent for 40 minutes before anyone notices. Or worse, maybe Democracy Now will end up on top of the audio for a silly ballgame. I can't see them doing Spanish unless they broker the whole thing out to someone else or run it automated. I can't believe they'd invest any significant money on local talent.

As for me, I personally won't drive a car that doesn't have XM in it. I gave up on local radio for most things a long time ago. Until Stephanie Miller ends up on XM, I guess I'll listen to her on 1520.
 
WACK is out here in Newark, so I dont think they are considered in the primary Rochester market. I dont think the signal makes it to Rochester.

It doesn't really get into Rochester...especially at night...but they're still likely considered a Rochester-market station. I say this primarily because WEOS is considered a Rochester-market station even though you can't get WEOS anywhere near Rochester due to co-channel WITR.

However, even if WACK is ESPN, I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't matter for WROC. Besides the fact that their signals don't really overlap all that much, I think if ESPN has to choose between WACK and WROC for their Rochester outlet, WROC will win hands-down.

Running TV audio for a newscast doesn't cut it either.

Generally I agree with you, but OTOH, that's exactly what Democracy Now is (a TV show who ports its audio to radio stations) and they're the highest-rated show on WEOS. And our ratings are pretty good overall, too.

How about keeping Progressive Talk and doing what they should have done 4 years ago - try and set up a trade or partial trade with City(local alt newspaper) and get the word out to the local Progressive community.

I wouldn't count on that as a means towards successful ratings. WFNX effectively does this with The Phoenix (an alt-weekly similar to City) and their 12+ ratings are consistently mediocre. Granted, I don't know what their 25-54 ratings are - and those are what matter. But tying your fate to a newspaper is a dicey proposition these days. I've heard that City is bucking the trend of losing readers but still...linking a radio outlet to a newspaper means neither can quickly or easily adapt to changing market conditions.

In the past I've professionally consulted for a major market daily paper to examine what it would take to try and create a radio outlet/network for them. The paper ultimately decided the ROI was nowhere near worth it. Granted, now a few years have gone by and said paper is on the verge of going under, so perhaps that was a bad business decision. :-\ But honestly I think they'd be even worse off now had they tried it.
 
"Way back when" in November 2005, when WROC had Allan Harris as its morning host, I appeared as a guest on his "First Talk with Allan Harris" segment. (The subject-- don't laugh too hard-- "Take Your [Model] Train To Work Day.")

I am still wondering whether anyone other than my family was listening that day. We certainly didn't get any phone calls. I had a blast nonetheless... I was a frequent caller to Allan's show on WHAM but it was the first time I sat across the table from him. The ~15 minute segment ran the gamut from Thomas the Tank Engine to the legendary after Christmas sales at Two Guys. I have a rather noisy full aircheck of it if anyone collects such things, on CD and in iTunes formats.

I basically gave up on WROC when Allan was shown the door and the programming replaced with something quite non-local that I believe was called "Morning Sedition." (Really, couldn't the programmers have been at least a little more original?)

Somewhat OT, does anyone know what's happened to Allan? Last I knew he had done the Sofia Brothers Car Show on FOX 31, but doesn't seem to have been included in the move to Channel 10.
 
Alan is alive and well, doing news part-time at WBEN. He also pops up doing Metro traffic. I don't know if that's a full-time gig. I haven't met him. But he is certainly a credible voice delivering the news on weekends.
 
Being an “outsider” who never worked in the media, I have hesitated – until now – to contribute to this board. It’s only natural that radio professionals should be preoccupied with “insider” stuff, but it’s disturbing how introspective the contributions can be when a wider view is warranted. The threatened banishment of progressive talk from local airwaves, in an election year no less, would leave a major segment of public opinion unrepresented. However, I looked in vain for any mention of the public interest. I’m reminded of Beltway insiders talking so much among themselves that they overlook what’s important to the rest of us.

Talk radio isn’t just any old format. For better or worse (for worse, actually), talk radio is heavily ghettoized and, in most markets, is heavily slanted by virtue of conservative talk either having a total monopoly or heavily dominating transmitter power.

After August 1, if the rumors are correct, Rochester’s spectrum of political talk will range from well right-of-center to toxic far-right. It’s not just liberal opinion that will disappear, but also plenty of solid information that’s hard to find elsewhere in the so-called “mainstream” media. NPR, rather than being “liberal” as alleged, plays things so close to the middle that it tends to lean over backwards to avoid offending, sometimes at the expense of leaving its audience inadequately informed.

So, people, let’s read how you think Rochester can keep a full spectrum of talk radio. If AM 950 dumps progressive talk, could it reappear on another frequency – this time under a management that considers it important enough to promote even with a few bumper stickers? I’d like to think that some contributors would be concerned about the negative effect of its absence on our democracy.

Finally, how does a listener get to have any influence? Contact the station? Well, over the years I’ve phoned, e-mailed and snail-mailed various stations for various reasons, and never found them responsive.

Thanks for reading.
 
If Rochester listeners really want left-wing propaganda, all they have to do is LISTEN. At last check, WROC was attracting .8% of the listening audience - and even less of the available audience.

If a lib-talk station falls in the radio forest, and nobody hears it, does it matter?
 
If Rochester listeners really want left-wing propaganda, all they have to do is LISTEN. At last check, WROC was attracting .8% of the listening audience - and even less of the available audience.

If a lib-talk station falls in the radio forest, and nobody hears it, does it matter?

Correction. You mean mainstream propaganda. Check the opinion polls. Most americans favor an end to the Iraq debacle, favor single payer health care, are fed up with special interests purchasing the country and have a very low opinion of such odious characters as George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Rummy, Rove and the rest of the bunch(Tony Soprano's mob is a lot more popular than the Bushco mob - at least they have a sense of humor).

WROC's numbers are low and whatever format they run, they won't get much of an audience. As previously posted here, I believe they would get a somewhat stronger audience with a little promotion(and perhaps a live morning host). But there is no doubt that right wing propaganda artists like Rush and Sean, with the help of being on high powered full service stations, do get more listeners. To be objective, I think, overall, libs favor alternative newspapers while cons favor talk radio. Draw your own conclusions there.
 
Politics Ain't the Point

Look, call it "lib-talk", call it "mainstream", call it whatever you believe that it is. This is NOT about politics. This IS about the bottom line.

The bottom line is that radio is a business. If the format doesn't bring in money, it won't be around long.

In my experience, there is no dearth of outlets for political thought anywhere on the political spectrum. Whether radio is your medium of choice, or TV, the Internet, various publications, or thought waves broadcast by the government that infest your brain unless you wear a tin foil hat, there are plenty of opportunities to hear the positions that politicos espouse.

Once in a while, they slip near an open mic, and we even get to hear what they're really thinking. Right, Jesse?
 
Once in a while, they slip near an open mic, and we even get to hear what they're really thinking. Right, Jesse?

Frangela(Fran/Angela), subbing again this week for Stephanie Miller, were really attacking Jesse this week for his comments. A check of their website seems to indicate they are both african americans.

All 24/7(not counting leased time) computer in a closet formats are doomed to the nether regions of arbitron...especially when they are on AM. Satellite radio is probably a better bet for a dedicated source for progressive talk or any other specialized format one might enjoy.
 
I for one am going to miss WROC. It is the one station that was different on the dial. Stephanie Miller does some of the best radio I've ever heard. Ed Shultz asks some very important questions that need answers. I figured something was up when they did not follow Randi Rhodes . It's just one more reason for me to get a satellite receiver and forget about Rochester radio. Whatever format they choose, with the exception of leased time, is doomed to failure. There is more than enough sports on Rochester radio. I bet if they do go sports we still won't have weekday Yankee games. There just isn't enough of a Hispanic population in the area to support a station especially on AM. Progressive talk was never promoted on WROC in any form. Even though the ratings were meager they were good demos and very loyal. Maybe if Entercom had sent some of their "marketing grads" up and down Park Ave. and Monroe Ave. to sell time they could have nichol & dimed an income that would at least payed the RG&E bill. A lot of perspective clients didn't even know they existed.
 
What we have here with 1280 is a station in search of a format. One person (Bob1370) seems hell bent on having WROC go Spanish, while others would like to see the continuation of a progressive talk format. Ratings have shown that WROC doesn't have much of an audience, and their signal pattern is one of the worst on the Rochester metro AM dial. So if you were Mike Doyle, what would you do with 1280?
Here are a few of my suggestions (free of charge to Entercom)


  • 1. Do what 990 am is doing and lease out programming to religion or informercials. At least the station would be making some money.
    2. Sell 1280 to some community organization(s) and let them run alternative programming that currently isn't on the AM dial.
    3. Go to a "Music of your Life" format, similar to what the old WEZO carried years ago.
    4. Just go dark and write off the loss on the company's taxes.
    5. Run CNN news all day. At least there would be an all-news format in town.

 
Except the only CNN radio product available, other than CNN Radio two-minute casts at the top of the hour, is Chicken Noodle Network Headline, which isn't all-news any more. 12 out of 24 hours are bizarro talk shows and repeats thereof - or actually, the visual-reference laden audio therefrom - like Nancy Grace, Larry King Is Still Alive, Glenn Beck (arguably the network's only successful primetime offering, and one which would promise to attract a lawsuit from any local Beck Premiere affiliate) and some Hollywood hour with today's Britney sightings and earnest four-cam talkathons discussing the chemical composition of Angelina Jolie's amniotic fluid.

Talk about must-hear radio! CNN Headline, for the benefit of its radio affiliates, even thoughfully fails to mute out (or use a separate audio path to avoid) closed-captioning announcements which sound utterly hilarious on the radio.
 
Let's analyze this whole situation a little objectively.

WROC-AM had a lot of strikes against it;

---By far the worst fulltime AM signal in the market

---Zero marketing and promotion, and consequent anemic ratings in most dayparts, from the moment it became a talker--and this predates its embrace of Air America, Miller and Schultz.

---No local programming once Alan Harris, who DID draw some decent numbers as a morning host while he was on staff, was let go

---A lot of satellite and canned programming notable more for its earnestness than its entertainment value (Schultz, Miller and Rachel Maddow excepted--they are good at what they do, but they're only a quarter of the schedule). Air America in its formative years was a train wreck. It's closer to a professionally competent radio network now, but that comes too late to help WROC.


It's hardly a test of the appeal of non-conservative talk in an essentially non-conservative market. AM 950 had almost no ratings after moderate morning host Alan Harris' show ended at 10 AM, even when they were a right-wing talker the rest of the day. People like Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity never drew flies while they were on 950. When Harris was dropped, unwisely IMHO, the station's numbers went south and never fully recovered.


What WROC does prove is this; if you want to make any impact with any format, especially one you expect to succeed wiht a general-interest English launguage audience, be consistent, be interesting, be LOCAL, and above all, make sure your signal is adequate to cover substantially all of the market you're trying to reach. If you're missing all those things, you won't get it done. WROC has arguably fallen short on all those counts as both a conservative talker with a moderate morning show, and as a left wing talker. The political slant itself has little to do with the station's lack of impact in the market ratings-wise and presumably financially.

If they're going with ESPN next, they're not going to do any better.

Their one hope for that signal to make money is to try a Latin format, including locally produced entertainment and news programming for the Latino audience in the drive times and in middays. WROC's signal is fatally limited for any general-appeal English language format, but its primary coverage pattern does capture substantially all of the roughly 50,000 Latinos living in Monroe County because they overwhelmingly live either in the city of Rochester or the inner ring suburbs. Gradually that population will also spread out geographically as it grows. But that's something Entercom won't have to worry a whole lot about for a decade or two if it picks a format for WROC with a potential audience large enough to be profitable, concentrated within its 5 millivolt signal contour, and sure to be loyal as long as only the one station is there to serve it.

I don't think this will happen while Entercom owns the station. They are not running the Rochester cluster with the same approach they take in Buffalo, where they've invested a lot in two out of their three wide-coverage AM signals and done well with them as a result. (The waste of their biggest Buffalo signal is another story best left for discussion at another time.) Here, they have shown they're interested only in making the full market coverage FMs in their Rochester portfolio pay. They have limited expectations for their one limited-range AM---perhaps more limited than they need to be. WROC will remain what it's been--a signal used to chip away a little at the strength of the AMs in Clear Channel's local cluster, nothing more.
 
Correction. You mean mainstream propaganda. Check the opinion polls. Most americans favor an end to the Iraq debacle, favor single payer health care, are fed up with special interests purchasing the country and have a very low opinion of such odious characters as George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Rummy, Rove and the rest of the bunch(Tony Soprano's mob is a lot more popular than the Bushco mob - at least they have a sense of humor).


Not to get too political on this but if we're checking polls Congress has hit an all-time low, lower than Bush's (and the "rest of the bunch") quoted. For what that's worth...
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom