Rumor Mill: WROC-AM Dumping Progressive Talk?

[JohnGault]

Well said Roxalot.

These decisions are often made by micromanagers looking at spreadsheets in Philadelphia or wherever, but sometimes by local egos on the hotseat trying to appear as if they are working to fix a percieved problem. Either way, you have short term thinking leading to future weakness.

 

[listener-in]

SirRoxalot, you are partly right. Yes I have been reading this board for some time, but I don't read every thread. So perhaps I haven’t given some contributors the credit they deserve, for which I apologize. From your latest comment, we have more opinions in common than I might have expected. That said, my general observations about this particular string still stand.

To me the main issue is the conflict between radio stations’ need to make money and the expectation among at least a segment of the audience that there should be a public service component. The latter has, both as a matter of law and in practice, gone by the wayside in the past few years, and I would challenge any industry insider to deny that audiences (plural, not the mass audience) have been much more poorly served as a consequence. With increasing competitive pressures from other media, AM & FM radio will have no alternative but to cultivate and respect their various audiences, which automated stations just don’t do.

Of course the industry doesn’t exist in a vacuum; all shareholder-owned businesses have been willing or unwilling participants in a race to the bottom with their race for the bottom line. Returns on investment that would have delighted managements two or three decades ago are no longer enough.

I also stand by my claim that WROC could have substantially built its audience by promoting itself and improving on its well-known technical flaws.

If I were a local owner of a single radio station, no matter what its format I would do my darndest to make it work before changing. Corporations like Entercom with multiple stations in many markets may not always have the same incentive. Right there we have one reason that ‘success for "progressive" talk radio is the exception, not the rule’. And, in markets where progressive talk succeeds, promotion is a major factor – corporate-ownership or not

And let’s assume that this is a genuine business decision – I don’t care what anyone says, to pick the height of this political season to shut down the only outlet for half or more of our area’s mainstream opinion is a political decision, whether intended that way or not. Entercom could have waited a few more weeks.

I nearly forgot, WROC does promote itself - on its own airwaves. Only today (Labor Day) during breaks in the Ed Schultz show, I heard the following promotions that sound entirely Orwellian, given that the plug is being pulled:

“See, there is a place on the dial where your opinion is heard”.

“Conservatives can’t keep up with us, but we ain’t falling down”.

“Remember when radio stations were fair and balanced? We do, and that’s why we’re here.”

"If conservatives hate us, we must be doing something right".

With WROC’s technical track record, quotes like that will probably persist on automatic pilot well into the ESPN regime.

 

[Element9]

Today and for the next few days to come, any number of mostly AM radio stations and talk shows will be heard trumpeting the brilliance of Sarah Palin's speech last night at the RNC: WYSL, WHAM, WBEN, WLVL, WECK and WDCX will feature right wing gasbags predicting a landslide GOP victory in November. The progressive voice offering criticism will be heard on WWKB and what remains of WROC. NPR offered moderately balanced, but still rather euphoric in praise of the speech, especially given that it was mostly in the "red meat for dogs" category. A fine speech it was, truly living up to if not exceding all that was expected.

 

[Savage]

listener-in, "9" and Phillip, I sincerely appreciate your comments and your recognition of our hard work at WYSL to make the station a credit to the profession, to our listeners and to our many happy clients - who privately opine to us, over and over, what a pleasure it is for them to deal with local management. We can make immediate decisions to help them grow their businesses without having to make them navigate through ponderous bureaucracies, or force them to participate in radio only through centrally dictated programs-bu-jour. They like flexibility and one-on-one attention.

I want to assure all of you that we at WYSL are neither disdainful nor complacent in any way. We do truly listen to our listeners - as well as our clients - as well as our potential listeners too. Unfortunately this is "mass media delivery" as radio has always been, which means some individual preferences are inevitably pushed aside in favor of something which works better, promises better return, or is more pragmatic. We don't do this to hurt anyone's feelings. We do it to survive and thrive, as any broadcaster would.

I can't promise that WYSL programming will send every one of you into rapturous delight. But we feel we've found a formula which is a near-term winner. Naturally crafting a radio station's daily lineup necessitates some subjective deliberation, such as whether such-and-such a host "sounds" like he/she fits, name recognition, and how well we think (according to your programming "gut" and experience) any specific show might play to the likely available audience. This requires a suspension of personal preferences, as much as that is possible, multiple sources of input (including yours) and years of experience, which I am gratified to state, of which there is much on our staff.

Thanks for listening and keep the ideas, supportive statements and criticisms coming. We welcome them all equally.

 

[listener-in]

The progressive voice offering criticism will be heard on WWKB and what remains of WROC.

I’m not aware of any progressive opinion remaining on WROC – I certainly haven’t found any. Please amplify.

The loss of progressive talk here is really felt as the campaigns get into top gear and conservative talkers coordinate their narratives with scant attention to accuracy and fact-checking. Given that so much in our country isn’t working properly any more, the side that has its thumb on the media scales may not be able to get its way come November, but it will be close. There's too much political talk radio that just appeals to our prejudices instead of informing us. (Yes, there are guilty progressives, but they command much less air time than conservatives and therefore can do less harm.) There will be plenty of what Ed Schultz calls low-information voters out there on Election Day and if I were a member of the media, I would ask myself why. Our democracy depends on an informed electorate, and I would wonder what choices my industry could make to become less dysfunctional while still making money.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Do you really think that anyone who is looking for informed discussion listens to commercial talk radio?

Expect NPR numbers to soar this election season. Besides, how many people still rely on commercial radio as a real information source?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Do you really think that anyone who is looking for informed discussion listens to commercial talk radio?
Expect NPR numbers to soar this election season. Besides, how many people still rely on commercial radio as a real information source?

Actually this subject should be under a different category; however I do agree with your statement that most commercial stations today either rely on television coverage, some morning host reading newspaper headlines, or doesn't bother to have news at all.
As for NPR numbers growing; they are. Recent surveys show that NPR stations have experienced an increase in audience listenership. I believe that's because NPR affiliates that carry news have to supplement national news with some local coverage. As for their local talk shows; it depends on what station you listen to. Albany for example has an excellent program called the Roundtable. Unfortunately for WAMC is that former co-host Susan Arbetter left that station over a year ago to work for WMHT TV. However Roundtable makes an attempt to discuss some interesting topics. There are other NPR stations however that carry mediocre local programs either because they don't have the staff needed to produce a decent daily product; or there are some stations whose talk show host monopolizes the conversation and features the same guests month after month.

 

[Element9]

You won't find reasoned discourse from the commercial radio gasbags on the right or the whiners on the left. NPR offers programming of substance and Buffalo listeners are fortunate beyond words to have WNED-AM and WBFO-FM. But if you're up for rants, hypocrisy and grandstanding, WBEN is unsurpassed, featuring moralizing and pontificating from the B & B boys and Rush. Schultz and Randi Rhodes offer much of the same blather from the other side of the fence. Listen with both ears, an open mind and a sense of humor. Most of all, READ books and newspapers. And above all, VOTE.

 

[cee]

Most of all, READ books and newspapers. And above all, VOTE.

As Ed McMahon would say: "you are correct, sir!" Unfortunately, asking a lot of people in this country to read is asking a lot. Voting? Who cares if a lot of brave guys died for your freedom. Better to stay home and watch Lindsay Lohan on E Channel("'Hollywood's 20 Greatest Skanks' is coming up next")

btw, this topic must be an all time record for most response ever on this board. 188 replies! Most of the topics on the national boards here on radio-info don't get this much action. It's the topic that won't die

 

[DavidZ]

Most of all, READ books and newspapers. And above all, VOTE.

As Ed McMahon would say: "you are correct, sir!" Unfortunately, asking a lot of people in this country to read is asking a lot. Voting? Who cares if a lot of brave guys died for your freedom. Better to stay home and watch Lindsay Lohan on E Channel("'Hollywood's 20 Greatest Skanks' is coming up next")

btw, this topic must be an all time record for most response ever on this board. 188 replies! Most of the topics on the national boards here on radio-info don't get this much action. It's the topic that won't die

There is a thread on the Providence board that has been going since June 9, 2006 and now has 384 replies and been read 20,282 times. The latest post was last Friday Sept. 5th. Here is the link - http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,39876.380.html

 

[Bob1370]

"Expect NPR numbers to soar this election season. Besides, how many people still rely on commercial radio as a real information source?"

Depends on the programming and the daypart. The straight-ahead news blocks on many stations still serve their listeners well for the most part, but the more candid among the talk show hosts themselves will concede that they are NOT to be regarded as sources of information--only opinion-meisters, agents-provocateurs of public discourse and (if they're really good at it) entertainers. Only the blowhards will try to pose as credible information sources.

And as far as NPR numbers...can't speak for every station. but the one I work for recently got its spring book, and posted its best cume and AQH numbers of any quarterly book in its 24 year history. Let each make of that what they will...

 

[alw]

I have high hopes for this election season.

After looking at my demographics, I'm expecting to show-up any Monday now and find out that my entire audience has expired over the weekend.

So, I'll take whatever I can get.

On another note, the sports freak that sells me coffee in the morning on the way to work was grumbling that he was pretty irritated that they didn't handle the Tom Brady situation in the same manner in which they did with Eight Bells.

If only I were still on the air.....that one could have generated a phone call or two.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Should NPR Adopt Nipper As a Mascot?

After looking at my demographics, I'm expecting to show-up any Monday now and find out that my entire audience has expired over the weekend.

What? A Buffalo Spree "Best of" award winner concerned about audience size?

I'm shocked. Shocked!

 

[alw]

“The last refuge on the dial for those seeking truth and balance in an unbalanced world.”

'NUFF SAID!

 

[Element9]

Most of all, READ books and newspapers. And above all, VOTE.

As Ed McMahon would say: "you are correct, sir!" Unfortunately, asking a lot of people in this country to read is asking a lot. Voting? Who cares if a lot of brave guys died for your freedom. Better to stay home and watch Lindsay Lohan on E Channel("'Hollywood's 20 Greatest Skanks' is coming up next")

btw, this topic must be an all time record for most response ever on this board. 188 replies! Most of the topics on the national boards here on radio-info don't get this much action. It's the topic that won't die

There is a thread on the Providence board that has been going since June 9, 2006 and now has 384 replies and been read 20,282 times. The latest post was last Friday Sept. 5th. Here is the link - http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,39876.380.html

Guess we'll just have to resurrect that WECQ thread. Or start another KB thread. Pull my wisdom teeth, please.

The thread referenced on the Providence board is impressive, especially as it contains more posts from wack jobs than we've had in years on this turf. Recall a certain woman who claimed here to own WJJL. The Providence board looks like it's becoming the "Cincinnati board of 2008."

This board at least offers posts by people who can spell. We do, however, seem to have an abundance of posters who enjoy using the Marquee tag.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

the other boards

I don't know about Providence but some of the other boards like Tampa and Nashville get rather mean. Much of it's is the same...you're to old to listen to the radio, research is great, radio is great, you're a moron etc.

This is a nice board and I hope it stays that way!

 

[listener-in]

You won't find reasoned discourse from the commercial radio gasbags on the right or the whiners on the left. NPR offers programming of substance.

This is true only as far as it goes. Gasbags and whiners exist on both sides; however on the left, at least, there are others. I would challenge anybody to deny that the very knowledgeable Thom Hartmann offers plenty of reasoned discourse on his programs, many of which include civil discussions with philosophical opponents. Ed Schultz tends to be a bit hotheaded sometimes, but he isn’t afraid to invite the other side onto his show to respectfully discuss matters of substance.

NPR is a wonderful resource for information. It has the rare virtue that in any number of its programs, you can unexpectedly become wrapped up in a topic that you never thought you would be interested in. (Another such source is the CBC with programs like “The Sunday Edition”.) For better or worse, NPR’s programming doesn’t allow for a regular schedule of highly opinionated shows. I cannot imagine NPR hiring Thom Hartmann and his conservative equivalent. There is a studied neutrality which works well most of the time but, too often, NPR leans over backwards to play even-steven, even when one side’s opinion clearly conflicts with fact.

Listen with both ears, an open mind and a sense of humor. Most of all, READ books and newspapers. And above all, VOTE.

Agreed - though I suspect that’s preaching to the choir as far as members of this board are concerned. More typical, I suspect, are stressed-out families holding down multiple jobs who barely have time to read anything of substance and rely for their “information” on a few minutes’ exposure on their car radios to the likes of Limbaugh, brief news bulletins at the top or bottom of the hour, and whatever happens to be on TV at either end of their work day.

Only the blowhards will try to pose as credible information sources.

Also agreed - but in Thom Hartmann's case, he's a non-blowhard who by his very ability to back up his opinions obviously has a wealth of information at his fingertips and cannot help but be trusted by his listeners as a credible source. He has no need to pose.

By the way, as a relative newcomer to this board and industry outsider, I'm too am impressed by its high levels of literacy, civility and even occasional wit. Now, if only they could be replicated on the airwaves.....

 

[SirRoxalot]

Gasbag & Whiner, Attorneys at Law

By the way, as a relative newcomer to this board and industry outsider, I'm too am impressed by its high levels of literacy, civility and even occasional wit. Now, if only they could be replicated on the airwaves.....

Tough to be literate, civil, and witty when you're limited to a 12 second intro 4 or 5 times an hour. You're also supposed to sell a station liner during most of those breaks.

Some interesting election results this evening. A million bucks worth of Jack Davis attack adds netted him a 3rd place finish in the Democratic primary. The endorsed Democratic candidate in the same district was second in spending, and finished second with his attack ads. Alice Kryzan, who spent the least, and had one very good ad targeting the scuffle between the other two, won handily. Is it possible that the voting populace is getting tired of the rancor, and will punish candidates who go too negative with their ads?

 

[JohnW]

Re: Gasbag & Whiner, Attorneys at Law

Is it possible that the voting populace is getting tired of the rancor, and will punish candidates who go too negative with their ads?

One can only hope.

 

[listener-in]

Tough to be literate, civil, and witty when you're limited to a 12 second intro 4 or 5 times an hour. You're also supposed to sell a station liner during most of those breaks.

That's not what I was getting at. It was the toxic content that stations enable during the rest of the hour.