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Rush #2, But who is #1?

Here we go again with that 12 plus business. What about the demos:

Men 18 plus
Men 18-34
Men 18-49
Men 25-49
Men 25-54
Men 35-64
Men 35 plus

They also look at women and adults in those same categories. I'm sure their main focus is on 25-49, 25-54, and 35-64. They also look at 18-49 to see how much of the younger audience is there.

By the way there are break-outs for 12-18 and 12-24, as well.

One more time! 12 plus is not that important!
 
> Here we go again with that 12 plus business. What about the
> demos:
>
> Men 18 plus
> Men 18-34
> Men 18-49
> Men 25-49
> Men 25-54
> Men 35-64
> Men 35 plus
>
> They also look at women and adults in those same categories.
> I'm sure their main focus is on 25-49, 25-54, and 35-64.
> They also look at 18-49 to see how much of the younger
> audience is there.
>
> By the way there are break-outs for 12-18 and 12-24, as
> well.
>
> One more time! 12 plus is not that important!

AMEN!!! the 12-18yr old demo is not that important as they are NOT the money makers...true they do spend but not as much as mama and daddy....(ever see a kid buy a $32,000 car?)

Forget the 12+...I wish Arbitron would quit doing that...
 
> >
> > One more time! 12 plus is not that important!
>
> AMEN!!! the 12-18yr old demo is not that important as they
> are NOT the money makers...true they do spend but not as
> much as mama and daddy....(ever see a kid buy a $32,000
> car?)
>
> Forget the 12+...I wish Arbitron would quit doing that...
>

While I agree with this one has to wonder if KODA or KMJQ brush off the 12+ number so easily. I can see not being at the top and arguing that the number matters very little.
 
Doesn't matter where you are in 12+, they still don't matter. I mean it may sound cool to say "We're number 1 12 plus", but no one sells with those numbers and no one buys based on those numbers. If they were so important, Arbitron wouldn't release them for free.
 
> Doesn't matter where you are in 12+, they still don't
> matter. I mean it may sound cool to say "We're number 1 12
> plus", but no one sells with those numbers and no one buys
> based on those numbers. If they were so important, Arbitron
> wouldn't release them for free.
>

Are you speaking as someone in the top 12+ or lower?
 
Towards the top. But I've worked at stations that we're number 1 12+ and it didn't matter then either. When I was at a 31 12+ station, it never factored in to how the station was bought or sold. Now being #1 18-34 and #1 25-54 at the time.. those were the numbers they sold by.

> > Doesn't matter where you are in 12+, they still don't
> > matter. I mean it may sound cool to say "We're number 1 12
>
> > plus", but no one sells with those numbers and no one buys
>
> > based on those numbers. If they were so important,
> Arbitron
> > wouldn't release them for free.
> >
>
> Are you speaking as someone in the top 12+ or lower?
>
 
Re: Target demos...

Each station/format has a certain demographic group that they target. Programmers/GM's/Owners all know that it is almost impossible to hit successfully with all demographic groups. So, basically the game plan is to a few key demographic groups and go from there. Stations like KBXX & KRBE can use the 12+ numbers to their advantage, because they are going after the younger demos. However, stations like KODA, KMJQ, & KHJZ are targeting the 25+ female demographic groups. KIOL & KKRW are going after the 25+ male demographic groups. Radio stations basically know which demographic group they want to target when they create the format, and when the numbers from Arbitron come out, that's the first place Managment looks... "Are we hitting our key demos?" If they are, they could careless about the 12+ figures. That's also what AE's use to sell the format. Arbitron numbers can be deceiving especially since the general public doesn't get to see the breakdowns.

As usual, Chuck is absolutely right, 12+ numbers are essentially meaningless.<P ID="signature">______________
The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lingers Long After The Sweetness of Low Price Is Long Forgotten.</P>
 
Re: Target demos...

"As usual, Chuck is absolutely right, 12+ numbers are
essentially meaningless."




Yes... but that is all we little people get to see.
 
Re: Target demos...

> "As usual, Chuck is absolutely right, 12+ numbers are
> essentially meaningless."
>
>
>
>
> Yes... but that is all we little people get to see.
>

Unfortunately and fortunately, I am, too. I don't know why Arbitron has to keep it such a big secret, but I guess it's too much for the public to handle.<P ID="signature">______________
The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lingers Long After The Sweetness of Low Price Is Long Forgotten.</P>
 
Re: Target demos...

> Unfortunately and fortunately, I am, too. I don't know why
> Arbitron has to keep it such a big secret, but I guess it's
> too much for the public to handle.

Not a matter of being too much to handle, rather stations pay thousands of dollars - sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars - for this information. Since some station or smaller station groups do NOT pay for it, Arbitron or the stations who actually paid for it, don't want to give them anything for free. And trust me, this happens. That's why sometimes you will see a market "embargoed" - not allowing even the 12 plus numbers to be published - usually because some operator had tried to use what was published as a selling or promotional tool.

Also, 12 plus may not be meaningful from a selling standpoint, but internally, it can be. I work within a multi-station cluster and recall a number of high ranking folks with the station being very pleased that one of their already high ranking stations, beat a hated competitor 12 plus, for the first time in a while. Also, in the years ahead, as PPM becomes more common, watch for increased interest in the overall (12 plus) CUME of a station.
>
 
> Here we go again with that 12 plus business. What about the
> demos:
>
> Men 18 plus
> Men 18-34
> Men 18-49
> Men 25-49
> Men 25-54
> Men 35-64
> Men 35 plus
>
> They also look at women and adults in those same categories.
> I'm sure their main focus is on 25-49, 25-54, and 35-64.
> They also look at 18-49 to see how much of the younger
> audience is there.
>
> By the way there are break-outs for 12-18 and 12-24, as
> well.
>
> One more time! 12 plus is not that important!
>


I wish that everyone who ever makes the point that 12+ means nothing could always offer at least one current demo ranking. 12+ means nothing for sales purposes, but often times (not always) stations are moving in the same direction in their target demo.

In the market I'm in, this book the stations that moved up or down 12+ almost all went in the same direction in their target, in fact, the movement was MORE EXTREME in their target than the 12+ indicated.It doesn't always work that way, but it often does.

Yes, no one buys or sells 12+. But keep in mind the different demos make up the 12+ universe, they are not mutually exclusive.
 
Re: Target demos...

> > Unfortunately and fortunately, I am, too. I don't know
> why
> > Arbitron has to keep it such a big secret, but I guess
> it's
> > too much for the public to handle.
>
> Not a matter of being too much to handle, rather stations
> pay thousands of dollars - sometimes hundreds of thousands
> of dollars - for this information. Since some station or
> smaller station groups do NOT pay for it, Arbitron or the
> stations who actually paid for it, don't want to give them
> anything for free. And trust me, this happens. That's why
> sometimes you will see a market "embargoed" - not allowing
> even the 12 plus numbers to be published - usually because
> some operator had tried to use what was published as a
> selling or promotional tool.
>
> Also, 12 plus may not be meaningful from a selling
> standpoint, but internally, it can be. I work within a
> multi-station cluster and recall a number of high ranking
> folks with the station being very pleased that one of their
> already high ranking stations, beat a hated competitor 12
> plus, for the first time in a while. Also, in the years
> ahead, as PPM becomes more common, watch for increased
> interest in the overall (12 plus) CUME of a station.
> >
>

Valid point, but at the end of the day, hitting your key demos is most important. <P ID="signature">______________
The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lingers Long After The Sweetness of Low Price Is Long Forgotten.</P>
 
Since you understand about it, you surely understand why we can't post the figures. I don't have the time, nor the money to defend myself in a lawsuit, because I posted the breakdowns on this website. Arbitron has a lot deeper pockets than me.
 
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