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Rush Revere



Good observation!

But you see, I don't care if a person is worth 300 $million, or the guy sitting next to me in Sunday School who I know is on welfare, I have little patience with tongues that deliver content that is equivalent to spoiled baloney.

I don't care if it is the guy sitting next to me trying to lecture me on theology, or the guy on the radio trying to lecture me on our system of government, those are both topics where I have no sense of humor with those who distort and mutilate the message. There is on one totally correct version of the political narrative or the faith narrative, but there is this "envelope" where informed people and honest people operate. Some of us draw the envelope with an expansive stroke of the brush (or pen), others draw a very small, rigid envelope. If someone draws the little one it must fit inside the big one, if dp,rpmr draw the big envelope and does not include the little one inside the metes and bounds, then we have a problem trying to have mature conversation.

You would think a $300 million dollar man would at least know where the envelope is.

Bravo.

It's about time someone set straight the dittohead types that always retreat to the tired and predictable "you just don't like Rush because he's: rich, successful, conservative, etc" mantra.

Fact is, Rush is nothing more than a radio barker/ideologue who couldn't care less about accuracy in what he says, but rather that his conclusions always reflect conservatism is good across the board and all else fails. Any evidence to the contrary is either distorted, misrepresented or ignored altogether. That is NOT who you should want teaching your kids anything.

Rush cannot be counted on to be honest or fair, so the notion of indoctrinating kids with his rhetoric is scary.
 


Good observation!

But you see, I don't care if a person is worth 300 $million, or the guy sitting next to me in Sunday School who I know is on welfare, I have little patience with tongues that deliver content that is equivalent to spoiled baloney.

I don't care if it is the guy sitting next to me trying to lecture me on theology, or the guy on the radio trying to lecture me on our system of government, those are both topics where I have no sense of humor with those who distort and mutilate the message. There is on one totally correct version of the political narrative or the faith narrative, but there is this "envelope" where informed people and honest people operate. Some of us draw the envelope with an expansive stroke of the brush (or pen), others draw a very small, rigid envelope. If someone draws the little one it must fit inside the big one, if dp,rpmr draw the big envelope and does not include the little one inside the metes and bounds, then we have a problem trying to have mature conversation.

You would think a $300 million dollar man would at least know where the envelope is.

That sounds like a pretty rigid envelope you've drawn as far as determining "mature conversation vs. spoiled baloney."
Or are you 'distorting or mutilating the message' to 'make a point?'
 
And that makes it OK? No wonder radio is dying. Radio people want to blame competition from new media when the fault, lies in themselves.
Yes, clearly radio hosts should only have radio shows.
Teachers and cops should not have rental properties.
Doctors should not own convenience stores.
City councilmen should only be city councilmen.
Actors should wait for all public display of their roles to end before they take another one.
Buggy whip makers should not make saddles.
Berkshire Hathaway should only make shirts, not newspapers.

Clearly, anyone else who has another way of making money has a fault in their self that proves they are 'dishonest' somehow. But surely RUSH IS THE WORST! :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Don't blame the 300-million-dollar-man -- blame the jerks who listen to him. When the audience rejects his baloney he'll stop.

Let's follow your logic and see where it leads us.

If I am mayor of the town, and a citizen rises to speak during the "public comments" time and makes an accusation about the chief of police that I know is false, and the city council members listen and begin to get upset with the chief, I guess I should not challenge the speaker to speak a bit more truthfully.... I should admonish the council members for being stupid enough to listen.

If my child comes home from school and tells me that the history teacher today told them George Washington was an African American, I should not correct the teacher, I should wait for the children to ignore the teacher. When the children finally quit coming the teacher will get fired... not for being a bad teacher, but for not keeping attendance up.

If I am in Sunday morning Bible Study and the person giving the lesson, the lecture, tells us that the Samaritan came down the road and robbed the man laying in the ditch of what little he had left (His shirt?) I should not ciriticize the teacher, but I should patiently wait until the class of listeners just quit coming and let the church end up going defunct.
 
That sounds like a pretty rigid envelope you've drawn as far as determining "mature conversation vs. spoiled baloney."
Or are you 'distorting or mutilating the message' to 'make a point?'

I'm just kind of old fashioned. I have this quaint idea that if we are going to have conversation we need to be honest with each other. Do you find that to be overly rigid? If I am listening to traffic and the reporter tells me that my freeway is moving at the speed limit in the area where I am driving, and I have been sitting her 32 minutes waiting for the police to clear up an accident scene, am I being 'pretty rigid' if I criticize the station and the traffic reporter? If following the 'spoiled baloney' traffic report the weather forecast is broadcast indicating we have sunny skies with no clouds in sight today, and yet I am sitting stuck in traffic on the highway for 32 minutes in the most gosh-awful frog-strangler thunderstorm I have experienced in the last 10 years, am I being "pretty ridgid" if I criticize the station and the weather reporter?

Help me formulate a more practical definition of recognizing when I am receiving 'mature conversation'.

The person posting a couple of messages back suggested I should get used to bad baloney because I can't name a talker who doesn't give us a less than truthful broadcast.

Are you really going to, with a straight face, tell me that I'm the bad actor if I expect a person talking on the radio to have some integrity?
 
Don't blame the 300-million-dollar-man -- blame the jerks who listen to him. When the audience rejects his baloney he'll stop. Meanwhile the "envelope" is in the mail with a big fat check inside it.

Let's follow your logic and see where it leads us.

If I am mayor of the town, and a citizen rises to speak during the "public comments" time and makes an accusation about the chief of police that I know is false, and the city council members listen and begin to get upset with the chief, I guess I should not challenge the speaker to speak a bit more truthfully.... I should admonish the council members for being stupid enough to listen.

If my child comes home from school and tells me that the history teacher today told them George Washington was an African American, I should not correct the teacher, I should wait for the children to ignore the teacher. When the children finally quit coming the teacher will get fired... not for being a bad teacher, but for not keeping attendance up.

If I am in Sunday morning Bible Study and the person giving the lesson, the lecture, tells us that the Samaritan came down the road and robbed the man laying in the ditch of what little he had left (His shirt?) I should not ciriticize the teacher, but I should patiently wait until the class of listeners just quit coming and let the church end up going defunct.

In each case, yes, you should. Rush Limbaugh should check his facts and present a reasoned, balanced discussion, but he doesn't. I applaud you for wanting talk radio to aim higher. It should. I'm just saying, at least in Rush's case, it doesn't.
 
If we are going to assess blame here, let's blame those who put Rush on the air and who allow him (and all his clones) to do their "act." There was a time when the industry had standards. Rush lies, presents false or unfounded "information," engages in personal attacks. His bosses at Bain Channel let him. The stations which carry his show let him. Rush was able to operate in the biz successfully when there were still standards. OK, he got fired a lot. Who didn't? But he did show himself capable of self-restraint. Now, he's like a spoiled brat who thinks he's wonderful and knows he can get away with anything.

I wonder what the ditto-heads here would be saying about Rush's tactics if he were shilling for the DNC instead.
 
If we are going to assess blame here, let's blame those who put Rush on the air and who allow him (and all his clones) to do their "act." There was a time when the industry had standards. Rush lies, presents false or unfounded "information," engages in personal attacks. His bosses at Bain Channel let him. The stations which carry his show let him. Rush was able to operate in the biz successfully when there were still standards. OK, he got fired a lot. Who didn't? But he did show himself capable of self-restraint. Now, he's like a spoiled brat who thinks he's wonderful and knows he can get away with anything.

I wonder what the ditto-heads here would be saying about Rush's tactics if he were shilling for the DNC instead.

Make no mistake about it: The reason Limbaugh and his clones are permitted to violate the public trust by knowingly misrepresenting fact for ideological reasons, is shear laziness and a lack of creativity on the part of talk programmers.

The path of least resistance dictates that programmers just let those hosts do what they do, because in recent years they've had ratings success playing to the extreme right. Granted, stations had success before that, but with the advent of Limbaugh (and clones) the copycat mentality took hold in programming and stations systematically hired lots more of them, chasing "normal" listeners away in the process, thus creating a niche that had to be further catered to for survival. In essence, they created their own problem. To this day, maybe due to a lack of historical knowledge in the evolution of the format over the last 25 years, many connected to the talk format don't even realize how this runaway train got started.

To be honest, if I was a talk programmer and I heard my hosts recklessly misinforming the public the way talkradio hosts do these days, I would have a difficult time not hauling their arses into the office for a serious talk about their future with the station. I really do wonder how many of these lazy and shortsighted programmers can live with themselves. They'll claim it's just entertainment, but generally speaking, when someone goes to a movie or the circus, they know it's about entertainment. When someone turns on a newstalk station and hears a voice talking about issues, they think of it as news, not entertainment.

The credibility that many heritage newstalk stations built over the past 80 years has been cashed in on and desecrated. They sold out for the sake of pleasing a niche audience that is not being replaced demographically. Due to the shortsightedness of many throughout the ranks of the programming and financial hierarchy, a climate has been created where this problem will not be fixed and radio will continue to grow in it's irrelevancy.

I'm not a conservative or a liberal and I have listened to talk since my late teens. I now listen to less talkradio than ever before---and not because I'm going to other mediums for it. If you don't see a problem with that, then you're part of the problem. The extreme ideological listeners were always there, but pandering to them is only accelerating the loss of everyone else.
 
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Isn't this a radio forum? The thread quickly turned into a hate Rush vs. Love Rush tennis match.

Then there are some very clever but inaccurate analogies of bad town hall meetings, bad history teachers and bad preachers. The mayor of the town has the duty to challenge the badmouthing, that's why (s)he has a gavel. The bad teacher must be challenged, because (s)he is feeding lies to my children. The preacher can say whatever he wants, and if it's wrong, then it's time to find a new church. Radio is different. When I turn my radio dial to a talk show host, they need to be honest enough to tell me what their bias is, and I have no problem. I know what to expect- entertainment- and maybe some factual news occasionally. This goes for Right Wing and Left Wing shows. I must be a responsible person and judge what is believable and what isn't. When a news show presents facts to me and they are wrong, or the little BS flag in my head comes up, then I have a problem, and the station is wrong in allowing its straight-from-the-hip news shows to slant. This is abuse of the radio as an informer, not as an entertainer. The bad weather and traffic reports are unexpected, because I need important information and I didn't get it. This is also an abuse of the airwaves.

We're talking entertainment here, and we all know fully what Rush is about. He wrote a kid's book that some like and others don't, and we don't have to buy it or check it out of the library. Again, we know what to expect. Where's the beef?
 
Great response, cefgw. You and I see this world of broadcasting and talk radio differently, but you responded to my posts with conversation and not with the kind of flames that some people are want to do in Internet Forums.

If I thought that most talk radio listeners had your ability to discern the difference between entertainment and reality, I wouldn't be in this conversation. I don't go to music discussion threads and get into arguments over the legitimacy of certain songs or the legitimacy of genres of music. I see music as primarily an entertainment, and I gather you see talk radio as primarily an entertainment in much the same way.

I guess there is an exception to my open-mindedness toward music. I hear there are songs in some music formats that have lyrics which encourage violence, lyrics which demean women, and some other anti-social behaviors. I could join someone's band-wagon to demand that stations clean-up and remove that genre of music from the airwaves.

Talk Radio occupies a very special and interesting stage. For some it is entertainment. But for some it is a navigation system, a compass, a trusted current-event primer. They actually decide how they will vote based on the "entertainment tripe" they have consumed. They consider themselves well informed voters because they listen to Talk Radio.... thus they know the truth!!! My new congressman uses 'telephone conference-call town-hall meetings' to connect with his people.

40 years ago I was doing talk radio. Even then, in it's very mild form compared to today, my pastor took me aside one day and said to me: "There is enough ignorance on your radio station on any one day.... to ignorance the whole world!" If he were alive today, I would love to ask him how today's talk radio compares to my talk radio of years ago.

It was a local program... no network. Listeners and participants knew where to find me and I regularly participated in off-the-air conversations with people as to whether I had treated them fairly, and at what point they could expect me to yank their leash when they started getting off the path of integrity and truthfulness. I gave them lengthy, comfortable leashes.
 
I can think of no clearer example as to the lack of oversight of talent and what's said on talk radio than the fact that when Bob Davis, on a Clear Channel talk station in the Twin Cities, said he would stand in front of the Newtown victim's families and tell them to "go to hell" for "interfering with his gun rights" - Clear Channel took no disciplinary action, and people high up in the company actually defended Davis straight faced.
 
The discussion of Guns in our Society has been much too shallow.

CSPAN in their interviews with book-writers came up with a couple of books where historians did a study of the place of guns in our colonial society, and a good look at the debate among the people who were composing and approving our Constitution.

None of these historians seemed to have an established reputation among media people... so no one is showcasing them, arguing with them or digging into their research. (Maybe new books are being written as we speak that will dig deeper into history.)

Given the current circumstances, I don't know how to react to the Minneapolis Talk Radio person, or the support given him by the executives who choose not to 'rein him in'. Remember, though in public they may defend him, we have no idea what he was told in private by his superiors. They may have told him to turn the rhetoric up higher, or they may have told him: Do that again and you will find yourself doing Talk Radio in Pine Bluff, AR!
 
GRC, the pleasure is mine. You're a Southern Gentleman. You were on the transmit side of this industry, and I never was.

All I (we) know that with all the info coming at us, it's our responsibility to accept and reject what's out there. Sometimes it hurts. Hey, that's an executive summary of my last post here :)

CEFGW = close enough for goverment work.
 
I can think of no clearer example as to the lack of oversight of talent and what's said on talk radio than the fact that when Bob Davis, on a Clear Channel talk station in the Twin Cities, said he would stand in front of the Newtown victim's families and tell them to "go to hell" for "interfering with his gun rights" - Clear Channel took no disciplinary action, and people high up in the company actually defended Davis straight faced.

Actually, as much contempt as I have for the lack of integrity shown by today's programmers and hosts, I really don't have a problem with outlandish opinions---as long as you do not misrepresent material fact.

Saying the "Newtown victims families can go to hell" is tasteless, but to me, not the same as promoting false information for the purpose of scaring people into agreeing with you. THAT is beyond irresponsible and I don't really know why it has become so common for programmers to look the other way.
 
It's political talk. Politics is full of inaccuracies, spin, exaggerations and lies. Why should anyone expect political talk radio be any different?
 
It's political talk. Politics is full of inaccuracies, spin, exaggerations and lies. Why should anyone expect political talk radio be any different?

Why? Maybe because being on the air 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, comes with a certain amount of responsibility, especially since your tucked between actual news broadcasts and are considered by many of your poorly informed listeners, to be newspeople.

Like I mentioned earlier: When you go to a circus, you know it's entertainment. When you listen to politicians, you know they're just politicians. Unfortunately, these reckless radio ideologues are nestled into the guts of many of our heritage newstalk radio operations---ones that have been building trust and credibility for many decades. They cash in on it, have listeners believing their garbage is fact, and you end up with a very large and very misled group of angry voters.

It's outrageous that this so acceptable to many around here. Sad, actually.
 
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It's outrageous that this so acceptable to many around here. Sad, actually.

I don't see anyone saying it's acceptable. The problem is there's nothing that can be done about it so I'm seeing mostly a feeling of resignation around here. These big syndicated programs are like space capsules hurtling through the airwaves that can't be touched by anyone.

Someone wrote, "If I were a programmer ..." OK, programmer of what? A local PD? Do they even exist anymore? The affiliates can only choose to carry the program or not. Not carrying it is a noble but uphill battle. Does the Limbaugh or Hannity show have a Program Director -- a guy who calls the staff together periodically to discuss station objectives, set guidelines and suggest ways to make the shows better? No. Radio was interesting when local hosts would disagree on issues and carry on a running battle. That can't happen when local programming is a checkerboard of syndicated space capsules.

I miss the old days of talk radio stations, but after decades of neglect, a rabid focus on the bottom line and nothing else, cluster ownership by conglomerates and alternate means of distribution, I have no expectation that those days will ever return. It's like in the music threads where people pine over the loss of Top 40 or Smooth Jazz or whatever and suggest ways to bring it back. It ain't gonna happen.
 


I'm just kind of old fashioned. I have this quaint idea that if we are going to have conversation we need to be honest with each other. Do you find that to be overly rigid? If I am listening to traffic and the reporter tells me that my freeway is moving at the speed limit in the area where I am driving, and I have been sitting her 32 minutes waiting for the police to clear up an accident scene, am I being 'pretty rigid' if I criticize the station and the traffic reporter? If following the 'spoiled baloney' traffic report the weather forecast is broadcast indicating we have sunny skies with no clouds in sight today, and yet I am sitting stuck in traffic on the highway for 32 minutes in the most gosh-awful frog-strangler thunderstorm I have experienced in the last 10 years, am I being "pretty ridgid" if I criticize the station and the weather reporter?

Help me formulate a more practical definition of recognizing when I am receiving 'mature conversation'.

The person posting a couple of messages back suggested I should get used to bad baloney because I can't name a talker who doesn't give us a less than truthful broadcast.

Are you really going to, with a straight face, tell me that I'm the bad actor if I expect a person talking on the radio to have some integrity?
It's a rigid envelope you're crafting (and lamenting in Rush, et al) because you are the sole determiner of what is "truth" and what fits inside YOUR matrix of what is truth/reliable/allowable.
You are the sole arbiter of what constitutes "integrity" under that matrix. Just because someone disagrees with you on what should be broadcast doesn't mean they can't engage in mature conversation, are deviant people, or whatever. It just means that they think differently than you do, and maybe, well, likely, they aren't as rigid in their expectations as you tend to be, especially when it comes to holding conservative talk hosts' feet to the fire you created, and around which only a few others have gathered (mostly people with an axe to grind against Rush/Hannity/etc. already).
Radiotalking politicos are doing opinions, not something vaguely qualifiable and quantifiable like traffic reports, ball game statistics, elections results, lunch menus, police blotter reports, etc......
 
I think it's quantifiable that talk radio's tone, regardless of the opinion being expressed, has gotten increasingly rude and personal. There used to be a standard on the part of most operators that was voluntarily held to. There were certain things you didn't say. Not because of your party, or ideology, but because it was just considered escalating and not productive.

There are many, as conservative as they come, that would never say in mixed company the things said by Bob Davis and Rush Limbaugh about individuals, even if they deeply disagreed with the IDEAS of those individuals.
 
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