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S.F./S.J. Arbitron Radio Ratings: May 2012

1069_KIFR said:
KISS is UP 3 basis points
KBLX is DOWN 2 basis points

I know many think that Wall Street is the cause for many of radio's problems, but what does a "basis point" have to do with a radio station.
 
6+ share by cluster -

Clear Channel: 21.6
CBS Radio: 15.3
Cumulus: 14.7
Univision: 6.2
Entercom: 5.3 (tied with KQED)

A side note for all of this board's KREV champions - congratulations - they no longer show up in the ratings.
 
RealDealHolyfield said:
A side note for all of this board's KREV champions - congratulations - they no longer show up in the ratings.

... on account of them not subscribing, and now non-subscribers are not mentioned in the published list. I wonder whether they're bothering to encode...
 
HCochet said:
where was KGO in May 2011?

A better question might be, "How did KGO do in ages 25 to 49 in 2011 versus today?" It doesn't matter if a station is #1 if they have demographics that can't be sold. That was KGO's problem.

As I predicted, KGO's audience would level off; I didn't think for a moment that it would crash and burn. I expected a bit more from KKSF 910, but they have two problems: No advertising budget to reach find new listeners, and a bad nighttime signal that doesn't cover the market. The nighttime signal is a problem for people who like to set their radios to turn on in the morning, when most ralkradio listening takes place. If they can't set their radio for KKSF they'll set it for something else.
 
KSAN and KFOG continue to have bad ratings. Is it the changes Cumulus is making or is this just a market that doesn't like rock that much anymore?
 
recto101 said:
KGO went to 2.4
KMEL is tied with KCBS at a 4.6
KNBR got a 5.1

I wonder how KGO is really doing. Are they making as much money now? Forget the ratings. I don't believe in them. I never believed in the accuracy of Arbitron ratings or the new people meters or whatever it's called. I want scientific proof (which is impossible, I guess). Anything less is a guess.
How much money is coming in at KGO minus money going out? That's what maters to the only opinions that count (owners, investors). A stations job is to make money, not to entertain HCochet. KGO is doing a good job of not entertaining HCochet. But are they making money? If so, will they continue to make money? I only listen when they have local hosts. Ronn, Pat, Christine, Brian, etc. (but NOT K*r*l) No news or Bloomberg for me. I used to go to sleep at night to KGO and wake up to KGO. Not anymore.
 
HCochet said:
I wonder how KGO is really doing. Are they making as much money now? Forget the ratings. I don't believe in them. I never believed in the accuracy of Arbitron ratings or the new people meters or whatever it's called. I want scientific proof (which is impossible, I guess). Anything less is a guess.

When Nielsen and Arbitron were both doing TV ratings, their ratings didn't vary much between them, even though Nielsen used "people meters" attached to sets and Arbitron used the diary and phone call method. So, I'm not inclined to think that the sampling is inaccurate. I also notice that season in and season out, some stations have very consistent ratings. If the methodology were at fault I'd think that the ratings would vary. Look at KALW. They have very consistent ratings. Also, look at them as a station. They change programming at a glacial pace. Today's KALW is like last year's KALW or the year before. They do what works for their audience. Meanwhile, other stations change formats and the ratings rise or plummet. To me this means that the ratings are likely to be fairly accurate.

How much money is coming in at KGO minus money going out? That's what maters to the only opinions that count (owners, investors). A stations job is to make money, not to entertain HCochet. KGO is doing a good job of not entertaining HCochet. But are they making money? If so, will they continue to make money? I only listen when they have local hosts. Ronn, Pat, Christine, Brian, etc. (but NOT K*r*l) No news or Bloomberg for me. I used to go to sleep at night to KGO and wake up to KGO. Not anymore.

Not only will you never know, stockholders, and even most people working for KGO, will likely never know, either. I doubt that Cumulus will ever break out its KGO accounting separate from the rest of the company. So I doubt that many people, even within the Cumulus company even know how KGO is doing financially. People can figure out what their spot sales are and by their rates judge approximately what the income is, but the other half of the equation is left out. How much are the leases, the maintenance, the salaries, the service on the notes of various money they're borrowing? The health of a station cannot be judged just on one side of the ledger.
 
HCochet said:
I never believed in the accuracy of Arbitron ratings or the new people meters or whatever it's called. I want scientific proof (which is impossible, I guess).

Actually, it is not impossible. Statistics is the only scientific discipline where "error" is not a dirty word. Based on a number of factors like sample size vs. the size of the universe and such, the margin of error can be determined.

The principle purpose of doing ratings using a statistical sample is that this is the only way to get a useful approximation of the size and characteristics of a station's audience with a cost that is bearable by the industry.

A "census" is so expensive that even our prone-to-throw-money-at-anything government can only do one ever 10 years. Even then, it is a snapshot of one moment in time and so immense that it takes nearly a year to process the data. Radio surveys are supposed to get rapid turnaround of data and be reasonably current at any given time.

Ratings don't have to be 100% accurate. The purpose of ratings is to allow advertisers to measure the effectiveness of ad campaigns with a uniform metric. And, of course, by "effectiveness" I mean reaching the right amount of people the right number of times at the desired cost per listener.

Anything less is a guess.

Ratings are clearly labeled as "audience estimates" but they are not guesses. They are a measure of a representative sample of the population projected into the universe. The same methods of research are used by the major US marketers, from P&G to Coca Cola, to make billion dollar decisions. And the data from Arbitron is used to place a big percentage of the $15 billion or so in radio billings each year.


I used to go to sleep at night to KGO and wake up to KGO. Not anymore.

Were I to conclude that you are over 55, would I be right?
 
DavidEduardo said:
HCochet said:
I never believed in the accuracy of Arbitron ratings or the new people meters or whatever it's called. I want scientific proof (which is impossible, I guess).

Actually, it is not impossible. Statistics is the only scientific discipline where "error" is not a dirty word. Based on a number of factors like sample size vs. the size of the universe and such, the margin of error can be determined.

The principle purpose of doing ratings using a statistical sample is that this is the only way to get a useful approximation of the size and characteristics of a station's audience with a cost that is bearable by the industry.

A "census" is so expensive that even our prone-to-throw-money-at-anything government can only do one ever 10 years. Even then, it is a snapshot of one moment in time and so immense that it takes nearly a year to process the data. Radio surveys are supposed to get rapid turnaround of data and be reasonably current at any given time.

Ratings don't have to be 100% accurate. The purpose of ratings is to allow advertisers to measure the effectiveness of ad campaigns with a uniform metric. And, of course, by "effectiveness" I mean reaching the right amount of people the right number of times at the desired cost per listener.

Anything less is a guess.

Ratings are clearly labeled as "audience estimates" but they are not guesses. They are a measure of a representative sample of the population projected into the universe. The same methods of research are used by the major US marketers, from P&G to Coca Cola, to make billion dollar decisions. And the data from Arbitron is used to place a big percentage of the $15 billion or so in radio billings each year.


I used to go to sleep at night to KGO and wake up to KGO. Not anymore.

Were I to conclude that you are over 55, would I be right?
I was 49 years 11 months and a few days old when KGO died. Still in that 25-50 window they're supposedly shooting for. I guess they changed because of me turning 50? :) I turned 50 on Dec 25 2012. So no, you would be wrong if you thought I was over 55. Also, I had been going to sleep with KGO for the previous 30 years at least. You don't have to be old to like the old KGO.
 
DavidKaye said:
HCochet said:
I wonder how KGO is really doing. Are they making as much money now? Forget the ratings. I don't believe in them. I never believed in the accuracy of Arbitron ratings or the new people meters or whatever it's called. I want scientific proof (which is impossible, I guess). Anything less is a guess.

When Nielsen and Arbitron were both doing TV ratings, their ratings didn't vary much between them, even though Nielsen used "people meters" attached to sets and Arbitron used the diary and phone call method. So, I'm not inclined to think that the sampling is inaccurate. I also notice that season in and season out, some stations have very consistent ratings. If the methodology were at fault I'd think that the ratings would vary. Look at KALW. They have very consistent ratings. Also, look at them as a station. They change programming at a glacial pace. Today's KALW is like last year's KALW or the year before. They do what works for their audience. Meanwhile, other stations change formats and the ratings rise or plummet. To me this means that the ratings are likely to be fairly accurate.

How much money is coming in at KGO minus money going out? That's what maters to the only opinions that count (owners, investors). A stations job is to make money, not to entertain HCochet. KGO is doing a good job of not entertaining HCochet. But are they making money? If so, will they continue to make money? I only listen when they have local hosts. Ronn, Pat, Christine, Brian, etc. (but NOT K*r*l) No news or Bloomberg for me. I used to go to sleep at night to KGO and wake up to KGO. Not anymore.

Not only will you never know, stockholders, and even most people working for KGO, will likely never know, either. I doubt that Cumulus will ever break out its KGO accounting separate from the rest of the company. So I doubt that many people, even within the Cumulus company even know how KGO is doing financially. People can figure out what their spot sales are and by their rates judge approximately what the income is, but the other half of the equation is left out. How much are the leases, the maintenance, the salaries, the service on the notes of various money they're borrowing? The health of a station cannot be judged just on one side of the ledger.

I know we'll never know. I didn't expect an answer. Mostly my question was "was it a good move for KGO?" (when they died)

also, is Ronn Owen's still "excited" about the change?
 
HCochet said:
I know we'll never know. I didn't expect an answer. Mostly my question was "was it a good move for KGO?" (when they died)

What choice did they have? The kind of talk they were doing was getting nearly all 55+, and they were around 20th in 25-54 and lower in 18-49, so the sales were plummeting.

also, is Ronn Owen's still "excited" about the change?

He likely never was.
 
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